Reloading the 30-06

[Casull]

Can anyone give me a solid answer as to why the 30-06 is held to lower pressures than similar cartridges (other than the existence of older military rifles)?  I'm tired of hearing that the .308 Winchester has almost the same power as the 30-06.  The main reason being is that it is loaded up to 52,000 cup's, while the 30-06 is limited to 50,000 cup's.  Other than component and reloading manual manufacturers being careful due to the older military guns, I just can't see the reason for this.  It's even more irritating to see the .270 Winchester, .280 Remington and .338-06 loaded to 52,000 cup's (53,000 for the .338-06).  I mean these are the same cartridges (except for bullet diameter), and when shot out of the same brand and style of rifles, it just doesn't make any sense to limit the 30-06.  Next question, does anyone know of a reloading manual that lists 30-06 loads at 52,000 cup's?

[mt3030]

.... held to lower pressures than similar cartridges (other than the existence of older military rifles)? 

Appears you answered your own question. And don't' forget the older sporting rifles, and lever actions chambered for the 30-06.

[Questor]

If you load the 30-06 to pressures higher than their SAAMI specification, then it's not a 30-06 anymore. Its specification defines it as being limited to 50,000.  In practice it's hardly a limitation because, for example, a 150 grain bullet in a 30-06 is about as fast as a 130 grain bullet from a 270.

[Casull]

If you load the 30-06 to pressures higher than their SAAMI specification, then it's not a 30-06 anymore. Its specification defines it as being limited to 50,000

Really.  I thought the 30-06 was developed prior to the creation of SAAMI (and probably copper crusher pressure testing equipment).

[skb2706]

Is that precious few extra fps going to make any difference to anything ?

To think, I have survived my entire 35 years of handloading, most of which loading some form of 30-06 and .308 brass, without ever pushing either to their limits.

If it means that much to you (nothing in handloading means that much to me) , use some interpolation with great care and 'load 'em up'.

[beemanbeme]

What would be your gain in velocity --and that would be your only gain-- by boosting the pressure 2000#.  
Folks comparing a .308 to a 30-06 and a .280 to a 7RM and a 30-06 to a .300Winnie seldom compare apples to apples.  But rather, they will compare a carefully constructed hand load to a store bought cartridge, etc.  

[Questor]

I think it's a harmless part of being a rifle crank: Comparing ten things that are for all practical purposes identical, and then arguing their differences. Go figure.  Keeps the writers and the gun companies in business.

[Questor]

FYI: transcription of SAAMI specs circa 2004. Can't find the current ones:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

[skb2706]

FYI: transcription of SAAMI specs circa 2004. Can't find the current ones:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

Now theres a handy bit of information.........thanks questor

[Casull]

What would be your gain in velocity --and that would be your only gain-- by boosting the pressure 2000#. 

Well, I don't know.  Hence my questions.  I was mainly wondering if anyone knew a good reason to not load the 30-06 to pressures used for similar cartridges, particularly those using the same case.  I really don't see that as pushing the limits, unless of course loading the .308, .270, 25-06, et al to SAAMI specs is also pushing the limit.  Just seems that if there is no safety issue (again all those other cartridges are loaded to those levels), what is the harm or problem in trying to pick up another 100 to 200 fps.

[skb2706]

Not necessarily any harm. Point is that the published data you will find will always show an indifference to older rifles, lever rifles and rifles with lock up features that are not as secure as a good bolt. There is no doubt hundreds of guys have done exactly what you are asking but those same people would be hesitant to post data. When I was at that point I just bought a .300 win mag and then I didn't have to consider it.

[beemanbeme]

With my 30-06, when I started leaning on the red line, my groups went from 1" to 6" and that was reason enough for me. 
I understand your curiosity now and I would imagine (but never condone in cyberspace) that with a modern, well made bolt rifle, you could flirt with the far side of the red line.  If you were an experienced reloader going about it in a careful manner. 
But then, if you were an experienced reloader, you would have learned that red-lining seldom brings enough of a return to justify the wear and tear on equipment and nerves. 

[calvon]

skb2706 and beemanbeme both have it right. You can push your ought six to the far edge of being safe and get some modest increase in velocity. If that is your goal, and accuracy and barrel life are not, go to it. But know very well that a well placed bullet at lower velocity is always better than a poorly placed bullet that is going faster.

I'm in my eighties, have been reloading, casting bullets, swaging bullets, for fifty years. I have a .222 Remington that, with my load of H 4895, pushes a 50 grain bullet 2800 fps over my chronograph and they go where I point it. I could shoot it at 3000 but the ground squirrels and jack rabbits I shoot would never know the difference. If i wanted 3500 fps I'd get a .22-250 and be done with it.

I don't try to make a .30 X 378 Weatherby out of my ought six. If I wanted a 180 grain bullet to go faster than about 2600 fps I'd get something with a bigger cartridge. Several elk and a good many mule deer taken with that 2600 fps 180 grain bullet died quickly.

Moderation is as applicable to hand loading as it is to a lot of other things in life.

[Casull]

Obviously, I have not presented this in a manner that everyone can understand.  I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT LOADING THE 30-06 INTO ANY "RED ZONE" OR TRYING TO TURN IT INTO A .300 MAG.  What I was specifically asking about was loading it to the same SAAMI specs that all of the other 30-06 family of cartridges are loaded to (25-06, .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, 338-06, .35 Whelen).  Was just wondering if anyone knew of any reason not to do this sensible thing or if anyone knew of any reloading data or manuals that actually load the 30-06 to its reasonable potential.  Frankly, I don't care if you don't see a reason for it, or if your old granddad never did it and shot all the game in the county with his "normal" loads, or if you found some more anemic load that shoots well out of your rifle.  I was asking for information, not opinions or tales of how your way is better.  Sorry if that wasn't clear in my prior posts.

[calvon]

If you will take a file and cut the base area of a .30-06 brass and a .308 brass in half you will find that the .308 brass is thicker in the web area, which is unsupported by the barrel or the action. This may be one of the reasons why the latter can be loaded to higher pressure.

[Casull]

If you will take a file and cut the base area of a .30-06 brass and a .308 brass in half you will find that the .308 brass is thicker in the web area, which is unsupported by the barrel or the action. This may be one of the reasons why the latter can be loaded to higher pressure.

Maybe, I don't know.  But I'm pretty sure that is not the case with 25-06, .270 Winchester, et al.

[skb2706]

Obviously, I have not presented this in a manner that everyone can understand.  I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT LOADING THE 30-06 INTO ANY "RED ZONE" OR TRYING TO TURN IT INTO A .300 MAG.  What I was specifically asking about was loading it to the same SAAMI specs that all of the other 30-06 family of cartridges are loaded to (25-06, .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, 338-06, .35 Whelen).  Was just wondering if anyone knew of any reason not to do this sensible thing or if anyone knew of any reloading data or manuals that actually load the 30-06 to its reasonable potential.  Frankly, I don't care if you don't see a reason for it, or if your old granddad never did it and shot all the game in the county with his "normal" loads, or if you found some more anemic load that shoots well out of your rifle.  I was asking for information, not opinions or tales of how your way is better.  Sorry if that wasn't clear in my prior posts.

Frankly, your question is clear...your logic is not. Load them any way you would like. Pack those bad boys up and let 'em fly.

[Casull]

Frankly, your question is clear...your logic is not.

I must be a little slow.  What is not clear about my logic?  I simply see a whole family of cartridges loaded to 52,000 to 53,000 cup, and one lone member of that family limited to 50,000 cup, and I have to ask "why?".

Load them any way you would like. Pack those bad boys up and let 'em fly.

Please note that I was not asking permission or trying to be confrontational.  I was merely seeking information, specifically if anyone knew of loading data or a source for same.

[skb2706]

Because your lone member and many of the weapons originally chambered for it 'pre-dates' the other members. This, in and of itself makes it vulnerable, at least in the eyes of some pencil necks at SAAMI to pressure problems. Good luck with your quest. I have no other clue why but then the same case could be made for other examples - .221 FB vs. .222 Rem. SAAMI specs are 5,000 lbs greater for the Fireball....same basic case and all known firearms in both cases can easily handle the limits.

Have a safe and grand holiday weekend !!

PS no confrontation........

[PaulS]

The only reason I have for not loading my 3006 up to the same pressures as a 308 is that I don't have the equipment to track where the pressure is with any given load. I don't have a ballistics lab. If you have the equipment then do it. If you don't have the equipment and want to attempt it anyway then go for it. The difference between a "maximum pressure load" and a bomb is often less than you expect. Most bolt guns chambered for 3006 are strong enough to take some abuse. The best way to tell if you are using more pressure than you should is if your cartridges last fewer than ten rounds. I have been loading the same cases for more than ten years. This is a batch of 250 cases and they have been fired more than twenty times. I work my loads up for the best accuracy that I can achieve and after I have selected the load I check the speed with my chronograph. They aren't the fastest bullets going down range but I can kill anything in the lower forty-eight with them and make some darn good looking targets too.
Reloading is about different things to different people - if yours is velocity then go for it.