Author Topic: Best all around rifle caliber (Read 16501 times)

rex6666 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 17, 2007, 09:25:20 AM »

it is amazing to me how much game has changed, gotten tougher and harder to kill
what use to be done with a 30-30, or 30-06 now needs a magnum of some kind,
has the game changed or the shooters.
i have a friend that shot a bison in Montana with a 340 weatherby mag, he was telling me how hard they are to kill. i told him Indians used to kill them with a bow and arrow or spear
we used to hunt and pride or selves on how close we could get to a deer or a BEAR
now we set on one mt. and shoot game on the next Mt.

NONYA · « **Reply #31 on:** August 17, 2007, 10:15:54 AM »

The Indians used to shoot them full of arrows and come back later to see which died,or run them off a cliff and butcher the ones that broke enough bones to slow them down.Modern hunters like to make a quick clean kill and there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to modern hunting calibers,they get the job done and they do it fast.The game HAS changed,we have lots of new high velocity calibers to choose from and a group of sportsman that want the extra power to shoot farther and kill quicker,no big mystery.

rex6666 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 17, 2007, 10:40:43 AM »

when i say game i mean GAME as in you know deer,elk,squirrels, not your game as in cards
do you consider your self a hunter or long range bench rest shooter. anyone can stand off
300-400 yards and shoot something the size of an elk, and yes lots of people NEED
a weapon that all you need to do is hit the animal some where, and then claim it is the bullet
fault. i think some people read too much, or are over educated for their mentality. i have read
several post here today and at least one person seems to think he is smarter than every
one else

NONYA · « **Reply #33 on:** August 17, 2007, 08:45:38 PM »

Have you ever hunted game in open prairie or in canyons where the only possible shot is across the canyon or a distance over 100 yards?I dont care how far away you are you need to make a good shot to recover the animal,5 yards or 500,makes no difference.I hunt at ranges from 50 yards to 600,i practice often and use a rangefinder,i try different handloads with different bullets and make sure Im going to kill what i shoot.I guarantee you it is much easier to make that 100 yard shot than the 400 yard one and it takes a more dedicated hunter to do it on a regular basis.If you are limited to close shots through lack of practice or choice of caliber why talk trash about the hunter who isnt,the one that shoots a couple times a month throughout the year to keep his skills sharp,the hunter who enjoys being a capable killer at long distance is no less of a hunter than the one that wants to pack grandpas 30-30 and shoot deer at 50 yards.Anyone can do it with the proper equipment and practice,few are willing to put in the time needed to do it right.

crow_feather · « **Reply #34 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:34:49 PM »

rex6666

Sir,

You are right, the elk and deer are getting tougher to kill. 50 years ago, a 30-30 would work for 90 per cent of the hunters. But the animals have gotten smarter, and their senses have gotten better. Thus, shots have to be taken faster (I don't mean snap shots, but you can't sit and admire like we used to) and farther out than before. I have a friend that still gets his elk every year with a 30-30, but he shoots cows and shoots from his horse. Elk still don't regard a mounted horse as much as a threat.

The perfect rifle is as complicated as the person who uses it. The fit, style, recoil, stock type, and so much more has to fit the individual person. Thus, I would believe that the perfect rifle is different for each person. Mine is a 375 H & H Sako Mannlicher. My wife prefers right now a 30-40 krag Sporter, and in a year, she will be back to her 280 Browning bolt.

NONYA · « **Reply #35 on:** August 21, 2007, 06:18:12 PM »

Yes the animals are evolving into a super smart species over the last 50 years,they were never hunted prior to then so the brand new hunting pressure has forced their senses to evolve at an increased rate.....ROFL!!

gooser · « **Reply #36 on:** August 22, 2007, 02:42:02 PM »

I would have to say the 06.

TribReady · « **Reply #37 on:** August 22, 2007, 03:06:28 PM »

Could never get this argument down to just one

Although I've never shot one, the 7mm RemMag would probably be the best option for "anything" out West
The .375 H&H or .375 Ruger look great, but may be a little more gun than necessary (I know, I know....dead is dead)

If you were to lean towards the .30-06, then step up to the 8mm. Loaded properly you'll duplicate the '06 but with a 200 gr bullet

Of course, you'd know I'd come back to the 8mm

NONYA · « **Reply #38 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:11:14 PM »

My 8mm rem mag is another good all around rifle,but unless you like having the crap kicked out of you its no fun to shoot for fun or P dogs.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #39 on:** August 25, 2007, 06:02:54 PM »

I hate shooting game at long range. For me long range is anything over 300 yards, and most of the deer I have taken have been a hundred yards or closer. I have worked hard to make that happen. For years the areas I hunted allowed me to meet my goal of collecting venison at a reasonable range with my M760 in .270 Winchester.

But after a move I found a place that I could take deer at 350 to 400 yards. Because of the heavy brush and a flat, narrow ridge top I could not get close to them. But I found glassing from an adjacent ridge allowed me to get a shot. It also gave me an excuse to buy another rifle. I purchased a bolt action .270 what I could load a little hotter then the 760 pump. I also had to over come afternoon convective winds coming out of the deep canyon. My answer was to load 150 grain Sierra Boattails. The next step was to upgrade my scope. I had to do this on a very limited budget. I compromised and put a Weaver V7 on the rifle. I then loaded and practiced. It paid off.

That was 30+ years ago and the canyon is still there but a long ways away. But if I were to return to it my rifle of choice would change. To fit the need I would be shooting a 7MM Remington Magnum with a 160-grain spitzer at 3000 feet per second. A second choice would be my .270 Win. pushing a 140 spritzer BT, and my third choice would be a 165 grain Hornaday BT at 2900 fps out of my former Husk 30-06. The same 30-06 proved effective in the hands of my father-in-law on caribou, moose, and bear in Alaska.

Having had my boots on the ground in Montana I recognize NONYA wanting a bigger bang then many need. He lives in big, open country.

The 7MM Magnum is over kill for most of my deer hunting but under the right circumstances it is a good choice and it is offers more for the elk hunter. And the 300 Winchester Magnum and the 300 WSM are not out of line. Under the right circumstances a 30-30 is a good choice. And there are days I carry a 30-30 Marlin because I am hunting thick cover. But for the majority of my hunting the “Best all around rifle caliber” is the .270 Winchester with a 3x9 or 2.5x10 scope.

What would you choose for this country?

Dee · « **Reply #40 on:** August 26, 2007, 02:39:45 AM »

A four wheel drive.

NONYA · « **Reply #41 on:** August 26, 2007, 10:19:06 AM »

Apache helicopter

Dee · « **Reply #42 on:** August 26, 2007, 12:23:49 PM »

Helicopters are for sissys. If you must enter the area by air, a parachute is the only sporting way.

Swampman · « **Reply #43 on:** August 26, 2007, 12:40:42 PM »

"I have long taught that if you can't do it with a 30-06, you probably can't do it."

Col. Jeff Cooper

Siskiyou · « **Reply #44 on:** August 26, 2007, 05:36:14 PM »

A look at the same country from the lower end. Google Earth makes it look flat. There is an old dozer trail ¼ way around the first tall peak at the top. I work my way around it cutting off the peak. The problem with the peak is you burn a lot of energy getting to the top, and you have a view for miles, but you cannot see anything close.

The basic soil is little dirt and a lot of shale. Many years back four guys in a jeep tried to make the trip. Jeep went end over end, killing two and messing up the other two big time. It took a day or so back then to get the rescue going because there was no cellphone service in those days.

My choice of rifles is based on effectiveness for the hunt. There are opportunities for long range shooting and I have chosen to carry a lightweight .270 Win. I have not considered my 7 Mag or the 30-06 based on weight. The extra weight allowance is consumed by the pack frame, deer bag, rope, and Wyoming meat saw. In addition I pack an extra couple quarts of water, plus few other items. I would not consider a 30-30 because there are to many opportunities for shots over 200 yards.

I have encountered a couple of bears in the area, but years passed between the encounters and I was not interested because they were to far from the bottom. Getting a deer out is tough enough. An Apache helicopter never entered my mind, but a couple of times I dreamed about a Hughes 500D model with extended skids or a cargo net.

In my case the idea-hunting rifle is not always based on caliber, but a combination of caliber, scope, accuracy, reliability, and the weight of the rifle. This is the type of country that tears up the body. Even with tough White Boots I know my feet are going to be tired the next day. I’ll have a few bruises, and scratches from fighting the brush so the next days hunt maybe on the lazy side. So if I can cut some weight in the rifle I’ll do so. The extra water is more important to my existence. And it passes.

My Dad, and later my father-in-law would drop us off at the top and then drive twenty miles to pick us up at the bottom.

An old friend who hunts this kind of country cut a twenty-four inch barrel on a .308 to twenty inches to make it more user friendly. Seems that there are a lot of similar commercial rifles like that around now days.

Dee · « **Reply #45 on:** August 27, 2007, 02:43:38 AM »

Man that would be some tough huntin.

tuck2 · « **Reply #46 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:30:14 AM »

I like Old Moss post, I to have tried to find the Best All Around Big Game Rifle, So far I have used the 243 Win, 257 Roberts ,25-06 Rem, 264 Win, 270 Win, 7MM Rem Mag, 30-30, 308 Win, 30-06, 308 Norma Mag, and 340 Weatherby Mag. Hand load a premiun bullet into any one of them and take shots where the bullet still has about 1500 ft/lb energy and you can drop prong horn, mule deer,and elk. Back in 1952 I could have saved a few $$$ if I had gotten a 30-06 for my first big game rifle and hand loaded a bullet that matched the game . But it was a lot of fun shooting the various rifles. Say, I bet the new short 357 Mag would put a big hole into an Elk.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #47 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:51:21 AM »

300 win mag. and a lunar lander for that land in the picture !
it will do everything the 06 will do and a bit more ! ain't that why they invented it ?

Swampman · « **Reply #48 on:** August 27, 2007, 11:25:27 AM »

Almost all deer/elk class rifle cartridges were invented to sell new rifles to those who already had a .30-06, and who could be swayed by advertising hype.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #49 on:** August 27, 2007, 01:17:11 PM »

most gun buyers !

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #50 on:** August 28, 2007, 05:53:40 PM »

For the record, the single rifle in my gun safe is an '06.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #51 on:** August 29, 2007, 05:11:07 AM »

now that's a good choice !
how many other cartridges were spawned off the 3006 case ? that alone should put it on the short list along with the 300 win. mag. ! real short list !

rex6666 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 29, 2007, 06:52:41 AM »

NONYA
Sense you are so well versed in every thing let me explain my position to your
questions that you ask have i ever HAD to shoot 3-400 yds.
i have never HAD to shoot 3-500 yards to kill an elk or deer, because i am (i feel a better hunter) don't feel the need to shoot that far.
I am 59 years old, i have HAD to shoot men at 3-500 yards and did it with a 308 and 30-06,
men are much easier to kill though they have not evolved enough.
NO i was not a sniper, i wasn't that good.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #53 on:** August 29, 2007, 07:08:36 AM »

The distance one shoots should depend on the skill and the hunt ! i practice out to 500 yds. and have never had to shoot that far ! but if i were lucky and hunted where due to time , ground cover etc. a long shot presented itself and i was comfortable with the rifle i was using , i would take it ! I find this long shot debate almost funny , much like driving a car vs. a race car . Some got the skill most don't ! even fewer practice to gain the experience !
Those guys who hunt the west deal with distance while us back east deal with speed and time ! To each his own !
the 300 win mag. will work at either extreme !

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #54 on:** August 29, 2007, 07:28:29 AM »

The only ranges we have to practice at around here are 100 yards. I probably would not take a shot over 200 until I had time to practice that. I usually sight first by using a laser bore sight, then shooting to fine adjust. I usually sight in at 1-2" above center at 100 yards for longer shots if they present themselves. After sighting in, I stand and shoot off hand to make sure I can hit at least under 4" off hand. Then I am satisfied. I think a tree or shootings sticks would help on longer shots.

NONYA · « **Reply #55 on:** August 29, 2007, 12:30:32 PM »

Rex 666,I have HAD to many times if I wanted to take game before it got dark or before they moved over the ridge or before they moved onto private ground or before they spooked and left the country.I like to be prepared to take long shots and i enjoy making them,I enjoy hunting open country and across canyons where they are common.Being able to take the longer shot makes me a more successful hunter in my country and that is what i care about.

crow_feather · « **Reply #56 on:** August 30, 2007, 06:04:11 AM »

Figures........................................................................to some people, the kill is the important part of the hunt, for most others, it is just the enjoyment of the hunt.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #57 on:** August 30, 2007, 09:46:36 AM »

If the kill was not important why carry a gun ? In the best all round cal. ( had to look like we were still on course ) !!!!!!!

crow_feather · « **Reply #58 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:19:44 PM »

Because carrying the gun/bow/pistol (in the best all around caliber) is part of the tradition of the hunt. If you just want to shoot something, go to an elk ranch and pay your fee.

NONYA · « **Reply #59 on:** August 30, 2007, 06:35:38 PM »

The kill is important to all real hunters,why else would we make sure we have a proper caliber,good bullet,hand loads,camo,spotting scopes,binoculars,ect ect.If the kill isnt important to you do the rest of us a favor and buy a camera,you can "hunt" year round.I know one guy that spouts the same BS"its all about the hunt",hes the most worthless hunter i have ever met....He is one of these "hunters" who book "hunts" on high fence ranches that contain the game in small enough pastures that a blind man could kill them and then talks about how hard the hunt was and how he earned his trophy by sitting 2 days in a blind.If its all about the hunt leave you rifle at home and let us do the killing.