Author Topic: Hornet reloading, this has me stumped?????? (Read 857 times)

Inrut24/7 · « **on:** May 25, 2007, 02:41:47 PM »

Ok, I load for 5 other calibers, but this evening was my first time reloading for the hornet and my first time using a neck sizing die. i only had 10 once fired frontier shells, I neck sized those, I full length sized 25 new winchester shells, well when it came time to seat the bullets the ones that i full legth sized ended up with crooked bullets that wont chamber,the ones that were neck sized look perfect and chamber perfect, At first i thought it was my seating die,but then the neck sized loads wouldnt have turned out so good, The only thing i can think is that i have a faulty lee FL die, i took it apart and back together a few times and tried it and got the same results, Then i got to thinking that i really dont need to FL size new brass anyway right? I also tried the new brass in the neck sizer and seated bullets with no problems, Has anyone had my problem and would you send the fl die back or use it as a paper weight?

rbergum95 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2007, 04:42:12 PM »

sounds like a fl die problem to me. i would send it back to the factory just because they are unconditionally for 2 years. i am currently reloading 22 hornet for 2 guns right now and have had no problem with either the fl or the neck sizing dies. the only other thing i would try before sending them back is taking them apart and thoroughly degreasing them. you could also try squaring the die up in the press by placing a large washer on the shell holder and raising the ram against the die with about 25 lbs of force. tried that with a faulty 7.62 x 39 die and it worked.

Booyah · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2007, 04:59:09 PM »

I used to reload the Hornet, but the case is so then that case it can be very tricky on reloading. I would bevel the inside of the case with a deburr chamfer and made sure that I had the iside of the case lubed with a dry lube. That seemed to help. But the Hornet case is not the easiest to reload. Flat base bullets make it harder.

trotterlg · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2007, 05:28:36 PM »

Sounds to me like the new full length sized brass is a little longer than the neck sized brass, the seating die is bumping the top of the brass too hard for the roll crimp and bending the case a little. Because the neck sized only is shorter you do not have this problem. Let us know. Larry

Inrut24/7 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2007, 06:44:31 PM »

I trimmed both with a lee case trimmer after sizing so they are the same length, I wish i only knew...I quess as long as my gun will eject the neck sized rounds I dont have to worry about this problem, but im assuming they are going to need full length sized every few loadings?

trotterlg · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2007, 07:35:06 PM »

I would take a close look at a neck sized round next to a full length sized round and see what is happening. This is not rocket science, one will be different from the other. Do you use the same neck size button in both sizing setups? Larry

Fred M · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2007, 02:39:31 PM »

Inrut24/7.
I do not load for the Hornet but load for other small cartriges. Most Handis have more than needed head space. This will stretch the cases, so the cases need
to be trimmed to excact length.

In most Handi calibers neck sizing does not work well because of the stretching.

Crimping should be avoided. Loaded neck diameter should be 0.002" bigger than
sized neck. The inside neck mouth should have a bevel to seat the flat base bullet.
With the light neck construction more than 0.002 will distort the case neck

An inline seating die like a Wilson will make nice straight ammo, and of course
back of the loaded case should be flush with barrel face. the shoulder should be
set back to accomplish this. If possible and you are up to it remove any barrel
gap between the standing breech and the barrel. This will elliminate most of the
stretching and prolong case life.

Inrut24/7 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 27, 2007, 01:43:08 AM »

I did a little more messing around with it, Both the fl die and neck sizer die are from the same set, So they should be the same, but i dont believe they are, i havnt measured,as i dont have calipers, but Im pretty sure that the problem is that the fl die is expanding the neck to big because even the few rounds that appeared to be fine had to be forced into the chamber and when i removed the round you could really see the scrape marks from the chamber on the neck, plus i could remove some of the bullets by hand,but I still dont understand why some of the bullets would seat crooked, the neck sized rounds are holding the bullets tighter that the fl rounds!!!!!! The lee dies i have are 222 rem, 223 rem , 257 roberts, 7mm rem mag, 270 wsm and now the Hornet dies, And the dies i own were purchased in that order, I never had a problem with lee dies untill the 270 wsm, the fl sizer woulnt fl size the case causing tight fitting rounds and I had to take material off the bottom of the die to solve the problem, and now the hornet problem, I always stood behind lee when a lee/rcbs debate came up,but im starting to wonder now... Im going to the range to shoot the neck sized rounds tomarrow and hopefully i will have a good range report

alsaqr · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2007, 02:12:52 AM »

"I quess as long as my gun will eject the neck sized rounds I dont have to worry about this problem, but im assuming they are going to need full length sized every few loadings?"

i've reloaded the Hornet for over 40 years. The Hornet is one of those cases that you do not want to FL re-size any more than absolutely necessary. FL re-sizing will lead to dramatically reduced case life. Mine are FL re-sized after their first firing and trimmed shorter than spec. If you get more than a few loadings out of a Hornet case you are very lucky. Reloading the .22 Hornet poses problems found in few other calibers. As one poster pointed out, be sure to chamfer the inside of the case neck.

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2007, 05:14:22 AM »

Inrut24/7
Without a good set of calibers you can't do good handloading because you don't
know what is going on.

Remove the expander button and try one case to see if you can seat a bullet.
One thing about these wee cases they should be partial outside neck reamed to make them concentric in the chamber.

Uneven neck walls in small cases are bad news. In a Handi if you are not full lenght sizing you get various lenght, hence the latch will be in a different place
for every shot.

You have to adjust the die so the case is flush with the face of the barrel, that means you are head spacing on the shoulder not on the rim. The Hornet is a finicky cartridge to load at the best of times, the Handi rifle adds just a little more complexity.

If you remove any gap and set up your die to zero head space, full length sizing will not
reduce case life any more than neck sizing. I load my 6x47 with a FL die only, my die has a bushing for the neck noexpander ball. The shoulder is set back for each load to maintain zero head space and cases are check or trimmed each time for length.

I alo use an inline seating die

This my way of making accurate ammo.

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2007, 12:00:51 PM »

I thought all rimmed cases were made to head space on the rim?

Rusty <><

alsaqr · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2007, 12:22:36 PM »

"I thought all rimmed cases were made to head space on the rim?"

They are, but not all cases have rims of the same thickness and some chambers have a deeper cut for the rim than is needed. That is why it is desirable to have ithe case head space on the shoulder.

"The Hornet is a finicky cartridge to load at the best of times, the Handi rifle adds just a little more complexity."

Thanks for the information. Yes, it is finicky. Have several guns in .22 Hornet but not a Handi-Rifle. Do have a Savage O/U with a .22 Hornet barrel. It has a real good chamber and is apparently easier to load for than a Handi. Also have a new Encore .22 Hornet barrel that shoots well with light loads at 2300-2400 fps with a 45 grain bullet. It did not like the heavier loads of 2400 with the same bullet.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2007, 12:31:41 PM »

Head space is one thing, shoulder space is another, too much of either isn't a good thing, in an H&R, it could have both!! $:-\$

Tim

Sourdough · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2007, 01:52:41 PM »

I find new unfired brass needs to have the mouth beveled. Otherwise it is hard to seat a bullet and they get cocked off center a little, or they cause the case neck to bulge a little, almost inperceptiable, but enough to make them hard to chamber.

alsaqr · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2007, 02:32:26 PM »

"Otherwise it is hard to seat a bullet and they get cocked off center a little, or they cause the case neck to bulge a little, almost inperceptiable, but enough to make them hard to chamber."

Good point. It can also cause the case to crumple. Always chamfer the inside of the case necks with new and first time fired cases. Also do my thing with the primer pocket uniformer and and the flash hole chamfering tool.

Fred M · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2007, 05:12:09 PM »

Quote.

Head space is one thing, shoulder space is another, too much of either isn't a
good thing, in an H&R, it could have both!

Tim has brought up a good point. What is happening when case is first fired it will both expand to the shoulder and the base. This is the shape you need to maintain.
It is also the right lenght and should be recorded and maintained for future
Loadings. The case should not be allowed to increase in length from the shoulder to
the base. Your die should be set to that bench mark.

And for Petes sake get a good caliber and a micrometer a tubing mic is als handi
to have for measuring case neck walls. A set of feeler gages are important too for
setting dies.

If you don't have good measuring tools or don'tn't want to buy them you should quit
hand loading, since you can't make good ammo without them, period.

Inrut24/7 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2007, 12:49:11 AM »

Yeah maybe i need a set now that i got the hornet, I never had them and still produce one hole "quality" ammo for 223 222 270wsm and 257 roberts.

tuck2 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2007, 01:41:04 AM »

I have not reloaded for a break open single shot rifle but have reloaded the Hornet for a bolt action Kimber rifle. I used a RCBS full size die but only run the case into the die so that about .20 inch of the reck was resized. I trim the cases each time after resizing and chamfer the inside of the case mouth. I have had more problems reloading the thin long tapered Hornet case than any other rifle case. I was going to have the rifle rechambered to a K Hornet but I got a 221 Fireball rifle and now the Hornet stays in the gun cabnit.

Fred M · « **Reply #18 on:** May 29, 2007, 11:43:21 AM »

Quote:

Yeah maybe i need a set now that i got the hornet, I never had them and
still produce one hole "quality" ammo for 223 222 270wsm and 257 roberts.

Now why did I waste all my life long time and money with expensive measuring
tools when one hole groups can be done without any of them

McLernon · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2007, 03:16:44 PM »

I have concluded that FL resizing is required for my 223 and 204 Handi's. The problem is not enough shoulder space from stretching and poor latch lock-up repeatability leading to lousy accuracy. So I FL resize now.

Mc