Author Topic: The story of Elmer Keith's famous, or infamous, 600 yard shot with a short barre  (Read 2185 times)

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Offline ms

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 The story of Elmer Keith's famous, or infamous, 600 yard shot with a short barreled revolver has been told and retold many times over the decades since it happened. Sometimes this tale is told by people using it as evidence that handguns can be used at long range, sometimes by people who think Keith was another old cowboy telling tall tales.
Many of you have heard of Bob Munden. He's famous for both lightning fast quick draws with a Colt Single Action Army (SAA), and just about any other handgun, and long range shooting. In one demonstration that's been shown on Shooting USA several times he used a stock 6" iron sighted Smith and Wesson 44 Magnum (629) and factory ammunition to pop a balloon at 600 yards using a truck hood for a rest. That doesn't prove that Keith made his shot, it does show that it is possible for someone to shoot that well.

Of all the times the incident comes up the real story is seldom told. It wasn't as if Keith drew his revolver and dropped the deer offhand at 600 yards. He had been shooting that gun and load at several hundred yards that week and knew the kind of hold over he would need. He also didn't do it in one shot, and was prone. None of those facts changes the truth of the story or diminishes Keith's accomplishment or shooting ability. In my opinion it does give more credence to the story.

While I don't make any claim that I can shoot as well as Elmer Keith I do know how well I can shoot at long range and I've seen other, better, shots do amazing things with handguns at long range. I believe Elmer Keith made that shot.

Here is one of Keith's recounting of the infamous shot...


Paul Kriley and I hunted up Clear Creek on the right side where it is partly open bunch grass meadows and partly patches of timber. We hunted all day, and although we saw several does at 80-90 yards, one at 60, that I could have killed. We passed them up, as I wanted a buck. Toward evening we topped out on a ridge. There was a swale between us and another small ridge on the side of the mountain slope about 300-400 yards away. Beyond that, out on the open sidehill, no doubt on account of the cougar, were about 20 mule deer, feeding. Two big bucks were in the band, and some lesser ones, the rest were does and long fawns. As it was getting late and the last day of the season, I wanted one of those bucks for meat. Being a half-mile away, I told Paul, “Take the .300 Magnum and duck back through this swale to that next ridge and that should put you within about 500 yards of them. I’ll stay here (the deer had seen us), let them watch me for a decoy.” Paul said, “You take the rifle.”
“I said, how is it sighted?”
He said, “one inch high at a hundred yards.” I told him to go ahead because I wouldn’t know where to hold it. I always sighted a .300 Magnum 3 inches high at a hundred and I wouldn’t know where to hold it at 500.
I said, “You go ahead and kill the biggest buck in the bunch for me.” Paul took off, went across the swale and climbed the ridge, laid down and crawled up to the top. He shot. The lower of the two bucks, which he later said was the biggest one, dropped and rolled down the mountain. I then took off across the swale to join him. Just before I climbed up the ridge to where he was lying, he started shooting again.

When I came up on top, the band of deer was pretty well long gone. They’d gone out to the next ridge top, turned up it slightly and went over. But the old buck was up following their trail, one front leg a-swinging. Paul had hit it. I asked Paul, “Is there any harm in me getting into this show?” He said, “No, go ahead.”

I had to lay down prone, because if I crawled over the hill to assume my old backside positioning, then the blast of his gun would be right in my ear. Shooting prone with a .44 Magnum is something I don’t like at all. The concussion is terrific. It will just about bust your ear drums every time. At any rate Paul shot and missed. I held all of the front sight up, or practically all of it, and perched the running deer on top of the front sight and squeezed one off. Paul said, “I saw it through my scope. It hit in the mud and snow right below him.” There was possibly six inches of wet snow, with muddy ground underneath. I told him “I won’t be low the next shot.” Paul shot again and missed with his .300 Magnum. The next time I held all of the front sight up and a bit of the ramp, just perched the deer on top. After the shot the gun came down out of recoil and the bullet had evidently landed. The buck made a high buck-jump, swapped ends, and came back toward us, shaking his head. I told Paul I must have hit a horn. I asked him to let the buck come back until he was right on us if he would, let him come as close as he would and I’d jump up and kill him. When he came back to where Paul had first rolled him, out about 500 yards, Paul said, “I could hit him now, I think.”

“Well,” I said, “I don’t like to see a deer run on three legs. Go ahead.” He shot again and missed. The buck swapped ends and turned around and went back right over the same trail. Paul said, “I’m out of ammunition. Empty.” I told him to reload, duck back out of sight, go on around the hill and head the old buck off, and I’d chase him on around. Paul took off on a run to go around this bunch-grass hill and get up above the buck and on top. He was young, husky, and could run like a deer himself. I got on the old buck again with all of the front sight and a trifle of the ramp up. Just as I was going to squeeze it off when he got to the ridge, he turned up it just as the band of deer had done. So I moved the sight picture in front of him and shot. After an interval he went down and out of sight. I didn’t think anything of it, thought he had just tipped over the ridge. It took me about half an hour to get across. When I got over there to the ridge, I saw where he’d rolled down the hill about fifty yards, bleeding badly, and then he’d gotten up and walked from the tracks to the ridge in front of us. There were a few pine trees down below, so I cut across to intercept his tracks. I could see he was bleeding out both sides.

Just before I got to the top of the ridge, I heard a shot up above me and then another shot, and I yelled and asked if it was Paul. He answered. I asked, “Did you get him?” He said, “Yes, he’s down there by that big pine tree below you. Climb a little higher and you can see him.” Paul came down and we went down to the buck. Paul said the buck was walking along all humped up very slowly. He held back of the shoulders as he was quartering away. The first shot went between his forelegs and threw up snow. Then he said the buck turned a little more away from him and he held higher and dropped him. Finally we parted the hair in the right flank and found where the 180-grain needle-pointed Remington spitzer had gone in. Later I determined it blew up and lodged in the left shoulder. At any rate I looked his horns over, trying to see where I’d hit a horn. No sign of it. Finally I found a bullet hole back of the right jaw and it came out of the top of his nose. That was the shot I’d hit him with out at 600 yards. Then Paul said, “Who shot him through the lungs broadside? I didn’t, never had that kind of shot at all.” There was an entrance hole fairly high on the right side of the rib cage just under the spine and an exit just about three or four inches lower on the other side. The deer had been approximately the same elevation as I was when I fired that last shot at him. We dressed him, drug him down the trail on Clear Creek, hung him up, and went on down to the ranch. The next day a man named Posy and I came back with a pack horse, loaded him and took him in. I took a few pictures of him hanging in the woodshed along with the Smith & Wesson .44 Mag.

I took him home and hung him up in the garage. About ten days later my son Ted came home from college and I told him, “Ted, go out and skin that big buck and get us some chops. They should be well-ripened and about right for dinner tonight.” After awhile Ted came in and he laid the part jacket of a Remington bullet on the table beside me and he said, “Dad, I found this right beside the exit hole on the left side of that buck’s ribs.” Then I knew that I had hit him at that long range two out of four times. I believe I missed the first shot, we didn’t see it at all, and it was on the second that Paul said he saw snow and mud fly up at his heels. I wrote it up and I’ve been called a liar ever since, but Paul Kriley is still alive and able to vouch for the facts.

Elmer Keith
 

Offline MePlat

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I've never disbelieved his making the shot.  There are people that cannot shoot well that may not believe it but I don't.
In the many times I spoke with Mr. Keith on the phone he still called shots like that "crazy stunts", "lucky accidents"  etc.
He shot his guns,  tried them at various ranges and knew how much front sight to hold up instead of holding over.
I saw the Munden shot on that steel plate.  I called him after it aired in my area and he said if I remember correctly he hit the plate on the seventh or eight shot.  One or the other.  If you remember on the 300 yard shot he missed the plate once.
He also hit an egg at 100 yards offhand with a 45 ACP too.  Made a hit on the steel plate at 300 with a 45 ACP and hit it with a 2 inch 38 special belly gun at 200 yards.
One thing I will say is it takes a lot of shooting to get to the proficiency to be able to do it.  And Mr. Keith was shooting Remington factory ammo when he made the kill.
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline corbanzo

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You know, I would like to be impressed.... but Im not at all.  Yeah, hitting something the size of a deer with a handgun at 600 years is impressive.  But from this account, he was in no way competent to HUNT deer at 600 yards, and neither was the rifle shooter. 

I'm sure I, like any other idiot, could wound a deer at 600 yards with a great shot, maybe kill it with a lucky one, but I sure as heck aint gonna try it. 

The story should be a lot shorter, if I were him, I wouldn't want this idiocy getting out.

I'm not saying I can shoot as well as he can, I'm just saying that he is an idiot for trying on a live animal.
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline MePlat

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corbanzo:  Keith started shooting after the deer was wounded by the rifle shooter not before.  To me that makes a difference.  He did not shoot at a perfectly healthy deer.
If you will read any of his accounts of the hunt he took only the revolver because it was still new and he wanted to get a deer with it.  He did not intend on bagging one at 600 yards though. Probably maybe closer say out to 200 yards.
That may or may not make any difference to you but to me it does.
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Offline corbanzo

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If I were that wounded deer, I would want someone proficient with a rifle to take a clean kill shot.  Not some wahoo with a revolver to shot a hole in my jaw.  The deer just suffers more.  I wouldn't call shooting a wounded animal in the jaw a great humanitarian deed any day, he had just found an excuse to try and make an extremely long shot, which is why he wanted to get in on it, he had the excuse.
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline MePlat

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corbanzo:  If you will read the account of the shots he hit the deer in the ribs too.  Not just the jaw.
You are entitled to you opinion as I am but you are abrasive on it.  Maybe he shouldn't have shot but the deer was retrieved and that was what mattered.
You are just an Elmer Keith hater to and would be welcomed on the Gary Reeder site with open arms.
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline Elwood

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Be objective. What kind of accuracy is a S&W 29 capable of at 600 yards. Nobody is as steady as a ransom rest but, it is a good place to start. Has anyone tried it? I remain skeptical but wont call Elmer a liar.
Elwood
Vae Victis

Offline flabbydan

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He must have had incredible eyesight.  Most revolver sights seem pretty thick to me.  I've never pointed a gun at a deer-sized animal at such a long range, but I'd think the deer must have appeared as big as the front sight.  How would you aim for the vitals or any other specific spot on the animal?  The man is a legend, and I don't consider myself qualified (neither as a hunter nor a shooter) to pass judgment on the shot in question.  I'm skeptical, but I can't call him a liar, either.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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I put down a running wounded deer at about 60 yards with a handgun a couple years back a shot i never would have taken on a non wounded animal but elmer took the shot like i did because it was the gun he had on him at the time. I never once heard him proclaim that he hunted that way. I know personaly with a good rest and a sixgun a deer sized target would be in serious trouble with even  me shooting and ive seen guys i would bet a penny on a dollar that they couldnt make a good hit on one at that range with a sixgun. Is it ethical to hunt that way. No not in my opinion. I know that if the opportunity presented itself at a trophy buck at 2oo yards and i had a good rest id probably take the shot. Would it be ethical. I dont know. But i know of some hunters that an off hand shot at 50 yards with a scoped rifle isnt ethical. I know that I wouldnt want to be standing out there a 600 yards with elmer poking a smith my way! I know that i can stand toe to toe with 90 percent of the average hunters that show up at our local ranges with a scoped bolt gun they shoot once a year with an open sighted handgun shooting off hand at a 100 yards. I guess i have my idea of whats ethical for me and dont preach to someone else that may have a differnt idea of what is ethical.
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Offline Lone Star

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I never doubted Elmer killed a deer with the 4" M29 at very long range - was it 400 yards, 500, 600?  Doesn't matter, he didn't have a laser rangefinder and it is near impossible to pace broken ground accurately.  I also never doubted it was largely luck - any one who ever shot factory handguns with factory ammo of that era knows that "accuracy" was considered excellent if the revolver grouped 1"to 2" at 25 yards off a rest.  That's a 24" to 48" group at 600 yards.   No matter how good of a shot Elmer was, he was limited by the accuracy level of his revolver and ammo.  That combo was not capable of current silhouette handgun accuracy - and it would be tough to make that shot today with a revolver that grouped 2 moa.  Sure, his chances were improved because Elmer was known to be an excellent target and game shot - but the hits were largely luck.  But it is still  a great story and I get a kick out of it every time I read it.    :)


.

Offline safetysheriff

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i think the main point one should gather from this account is not Elmer's accuracy, but rather the sheer power of a .44 mag' bullet at a possible distance of 600 yds penetrating a deer from one side through the other!    Elmer's hit was more luck than skill, i believe.   but his work helped to develop the power we eventually got from Remington in the .44 Mag'.   yes, Remington stepped up his Hot .44 Special loads and gave us more than Elmer was asking for.   but i'm Still glad he never tired of lobbying them 'til they finally gave us the .44 Mag'.   

Elmer may have been more of a self-advertizing/aggrandizing man that many believe, from what i've read about him.    i've read a very good opinion on this by a man who knew both him and Jack O'Connor, who Elmer seemed to loathe in front of the public.   BUT, Elmer did help us along the road to a great hobby that we have today.

ss'   
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline S.B.

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I can't remember Elmer asking anyone to agree with him and no deer has ever been killed from the keyboard of a computer but, I suspect many have been claimed? He definitely walked the walk and talked the talk. In my opinion, a true pioneer in handgunning.
My favorite story, of his, was the one just after his family moved to Montana and the bully was going to whip his A**, he took a sling shot and steel ball bearing and shot out the guys front teeth. I can still remember the sound he described of the ball hitting the teeth and the feeling it gave my own teeth, every time I thought of it. Truly a very colorful character. One of my hero's.
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
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Offline gypsyman

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I remember reading a magazine interview he gave, shortly before his death. He told the interviewer, he was sorry he ever told that story. You could tell that he wasn't proud of what he had done. But it was what had happened, mostly a luck shot. But he didn't lie about it. We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline MePlat

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gypsyman

Thats funny I don't remember him giving any interviews on that subject  or anything else.  I know he said he was called a liar due to the publishing of the account of the shot but none that I can remeber saying he was ashamed of it or regretted it.
I was and am a big keith fan an I would have more than likely read it somewhere too.
Of all the times I talked to him on phone he never gave any hint of ever being ashamed of the shot.
Maybe you read someone elses account on an article he did or something.
Could you name the magazine that the article was in?
Since he wrote for G&A since the early sixties till his death I assume it was in G&A right?
It doesn't add up to me.
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline Mikey

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I don't think it was luck at all.  He had practiced with that pistol at long ranges and knew well the capability of the revolver as well as his own.  He made the shot and tagged that buck twice at that distance.  The shot has been duplicated.  He never lied about the shot but knew a lot of people would think him one.  I always thought he would be the man to talk to about pistol shooting and I am sorry I never got the chance.  Mikey.

Offline corbanzo

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Hitting a deer at 600 yards with a .44 mag does have to do with luck.  Skill will greatly improve your chances. 

The one reason I do not like this shot is because he told the guy with the rifle to not shoot so he could take a shot. 

I dont care how good you are with a handgun, if there is a wounded animal at 600 yards, I have a .300 mag, and you have a .44 mag and tell me to step aside, I'm gonna tell you to #^*# off and I'm going to down that animal. 
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline gypsyman

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I think it was in an issue of American Handgunner, and the article was published after his death. I don't remember the author's name. But, I did word that wrong, it wasn't that he was ashamed of the shot, he was more ticked off, so to speak, of telling the story. He didn't like the grief and antagonism it brought him, from people's reaction to it. I remember in the article that if he had know how much crap he was going to get over it, he never would have repeated/published the story. That's what I really meant to say. We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline gypsyman

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Just to let some of you in on a little trick by the way. If you've seen any of the ''trick shooters'' busting balloons at 200 yds, they don't have to hit the balloon. You'll notice, they tape it to a steel plate, usually 2'x3', or 2'x4'. Just hit the steel plate, the bullet explodes into tiny pieces of shrapnel. That's what busts the balloon. Not saying that their not a good shot, hitting a 2'x4' plate offhand at 200yds.,is pretty darn good. But if they REALLY want to impress somebody, tie the balloon off on a sting, and try that at 200yds. We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!! Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline hunman55

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Elmer did it. No question. He shot handguns ever since he was a boy. Of course there was luck involved, but those bullets were also guided by years and years of shooting big bore sixguns(sights and trigger squeeze). Elmer Keith was and is THE man of big bore sixgunning. Hunman55

Offline MePlat

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gypsyman:  You really didn't think that we didn't understand what was happening when the bullet hit the steel plate did you?
And BTW the steel plate Munden used was 14 by 21 inches.  I called him after it aired and asked and I had one cut to the same size.
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline Tom W.

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"  If I were that wounded deer, I would want someone proficient with a rifle to take a clean kill shot."


Horses#it. You'd want to get away as far and as fast as you could.;D
Tom
Alabama Hunter and firearms safety instructor

I really like my handguns!

Offline S.B.

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Now wait a minute, we're talking game animals here not humans? Apples and oranges don't mix.
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
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Offline NONYA

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Elmer grew up rihgt here in my home town and him and my G grandfather rounded up wild horses on our wolfcreek ranch that they broke and sold,he was a good old cowboy and i wouldnt doubt a word he spoke.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline doncisler

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that shot was a lot like a hole-in-one in golf.  a lot of skill to get it close and a lot of luck for it to go in the hole (probably why i hate golf)
put em where you want em

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nahc life menber

Offline 992

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I guess our 'Ethics'.will be the reason no one will ever talk about a shot any of us ever made. ;D

tc

Offline Lloyd Smale

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what the hell are ethics. Just some standards some liberal sob decided to put on something. I hate that word more and more everytime i see it in print. For the most part people who preach it are nothing but hipocrits anyway.
blue lives matter

Offline MePlat

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I'm basically with Lloyd on this except if someone uses the Bible as the foundation for their ethics and follows the Bible okay but the trouble is most peoples ethics are based on whatever it takes to make them right and has no moral guidelines to govern them.
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Offline OLDHandgunner

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These people that don't beleive that this was impossible are people that couldn't hit a deer with a rifle at 50 yds broadside. I for one have never doubted that he made this shot. He probably made a few others that we don't know about. You must remember that he grew up with a handgun in his hand most of the time. As for me and other handgunners that have shot handguns most of our lives, know what is possible with a handgun in the hands of a good pistol shot. These aren't shots that you take all the time. Years ago we use to shoot at dirt clumps with our handguns at 200, 300 & 400yds on hillsides just to see what we needed for holdover. Once you get zeroed in with open sights at that range you will be surprized at how many times you can hit the target.
So lets keep the memory of OLD Elmer Keith with us because if it wasn't for him pushing the gun companys & Remington we may have never had a 44 Mag.

Offline SHOOTALL

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I love this site ! Kieth did alot for hand guns , he shared his life with anyone who wished to read it ! I have read quite a bit and don't recall his giving much thought to whether someone liked him or not ! He lived his life to his own conviction period !
I have lost count of the people i have taken to the range and had them hitting a steel plate at 500 yards , with a sighter it takes only a few shots to hit it ! its about 24x24 inches . I believe Kieth was good enough at that time in his life to do the same , watch his shot and correct in the field . If the animal was already wounded i would have done the same thing , And before someone condemns me , i really don't care either ! i would do all i could to recover the animal period !
Did ya know he was burned in a fire and the doctors wrote him off as dead , but he lived in spite of the opposition , i doubt he would of even listened to some of the touchy feeley political correct BS i read above ! i can't believe i did !
By the way if you feel Kieth's shot was a lie check out Billy Dixon's shot at the adobe walls , you can have a field day with that one !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline OLDHandgunner

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I have the book " Hell, I was there " and have read it. He had a rough early upbringing, I guess thats what made him what he was. Would have liked to have met the man.
He has some other good books & notes out there for some good reading. Like the story of how they did the penatration test for the different bullet at the slaughterhouses. Wouldn't the Animal Rights people had a field day with that.  :o :o :o