Author Topic: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt  (Read 30406 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« on: May 25, 2003, 11:11:00 PM »
Once upon a time before we had a major forums crash I had begun the test review of this gun. All of what I had written about it from my first impressions thru the partial test results was lost and I had deleted my MS Word file on it after posting. DUMB! OK so with the crying and teeth gnashing out of the way IÂ’ll get on with the job of writing the review once again from scratch.

I do still vividly recall my first impressions of this gun. I LIKED IT! Oh yeah. Nice. Made just like the FA83 I had tested earlier except a smaller and lighter version of it made for less potent rounds than the .454 Casull. The one Bob Baker sent me for testing was chambered for the .45 Colt at my request. It wore a 7.5” barrel and adjustable sights. It was a Premier model just as was the FA83 I’d had earlier. It locked up tightly as had the FA83 and I fully expected similar performance from it. I was not disappointed in the lest.

 I asked Bob to also toss in a holster for it so I could carry it with me on hunting trips. I did this for two hunting seasons for deer here in Alabama and never once had an opportunity to take a deer with it. Not for lack of trying but it just seemed me and this handgun were not lucky together on game. I even scheduled a hog hunt in TN on which I intended to use the gun and for personal reasons had to postpone it for longer than Bob could allow me to continue to keep the gun so even that didnÂ’t work for me. Bottom line of this sad tale is I have no photos of me and it with dead game to show for the “photo ops” section of this report.

Speaking of which. Here is a photo of the FA97 with the variety of factory loads I tested in it.



A pretty good selection consisting of  ammo provided by Buffalo Bore, Black Hills and Hornady. The latter two send me some CAS ammo which was also used in the CAS guns from EMF. Tim at Buffalo Bore send me the two selections he makes that are short enough for use in this gun. The cylinder of it is a bit shorter than the cylinder on guns such as the Ruger BH and so it canÂ’t use some of the hot hunting loads offered by Buffalo Bore. Nonetheless what he has that does fit was plenty accurate and powerful enough for any hunting IÂ’d have done with a .45 Colt. In such a light handgun the recoil was pretty severe with them however.

During the time I carried this gun with me in the woods I really grew to appreciate the light weight of it. Any carry gun is toted a lot more than shot while out and about in the woods. On the hip it was comfortable and never a problem. If you pack a gun on your hip as you wander the woods this is a nice choice. With a shorter barrel it would pack even better but for me at least wouldnÂ’t shoot as well. My tired old eyes need all the barrel length I can get to make hitting easier. For me the trade off for longer barrels is worth the extra weight and less handiness in order to be able to better see the sights. Your mileage may vary. Bob offers it in several difference barrel lengths as well as calibers so we can all find something weÂ’ll like.

So how did it shoot? Better than me. As IÂ’ve mentioned my tired old eyes arenÂ’t up to iron sight shooting like they were even a few years ago. My iron sight groups at 25 yards these days look more like what they used to at 50 yards even with the most accurate of handguns. I didnÂ’t scope this one like I did the FA83 so wasnÂ’t able to actually see just how accurate it could be. BUT the groups I did fire both at 25 and 50 yards were every bit as good as those fired with the FA83 so I feel the potential is there and the limiting factor was my ability to see the sights. With the FA83 I also did a lot of shooting with a B&L 2-6 scope mounted and wow did that tighten up the groups for a fellow with tired old eyes. I have no doubt it would have done so with this FA97 also had I asked Bob for a scope base and rings for it. But I didnÂ’t as I intended it to be a carry on the hip short range gun. For that me and it did fine.

The loads from Buffalo Bore shot way smaller groups than I have any right to shoot with my poor vision. Some groups came in under an inch at 25 yards and folks I don’t see that well. Pretty much all groups stayed under 2” at 25 yards. Let’s not talk about how poorly I shoot at 50 yards. It wasn’t a reflection of the gun or ammo but my inability to see the sights and target to place them. I no longer shoot at game that far away with iron sights as a result. Yeah it hurts for a fellow who used to compete in iron sight handgun metallic silhouette competition to no longer be able to see the sights and nope glasses don’t help. I can’t see up close and any lens with enough correction to help me see those sights blurs the target so badly that it affects groups. Best is an aperture device and I do some times use it and that’s when the groups tighten but it isn’t practical for hunting for me at least.

Lets get specific on a few groups shot. With the Buffalo Bore 260 JHP at 1450 fps (wow was that a handful in that light gun) my best group was just at one inch at 25 yards. 1.05” to be specific as best I was able to measure it. The worst was 2.5” and the average of all groups shot with this load was just under 2 inches at 1.95”. This is a powerful load for a .45 Colt and should do great on most any deer or hog you’d want to tackle. Groups with the Buffalo Bore 300 JSP which should be up to the task for any game you’d go after with the .45 Colt were pretty much clones of the 260 JHP loads but recoil was a bit less due to the lower velocity and so they were more pleasant to shoot. I found this to be the case with the Buffalo Bore loads for the .454 Casull in the FA83 also. The heavier bullets were more pleasant to shoot than the lighter faster ones. Best group was an even one inch as best I could measure it. Worst was an even 3” which I’m sure was me as only one shot blew that one from roughly 1.5” for the other four shots to an even 3”. Overall average of all groups fired with this load was a hair under 1.75”. In both cases the 50 yard groups averaged closer to 5” but I know I just don’t see well enough for 50 yard shooting any more with iron sights.

The Hornady factor CAS loads didn’t seem to get along that well in this gun for some reason. Average at 25 yards was a bit over 3” and ranged from 2” to over 5” for one really poor group that likely was mostly me as I was having a lousy shooting day that day and quit in disgust of my shooting with several iron sighted guns I was trying to shoot. Still that isn’t a load I’d chose for that particular revolver I was testing. Your mileage likely will vary.

The Black Hills CAS ammo and this gun loved each other. Why the difference in it and the Hornady I don’t know. But I’ve now fired both in several .45 Colt chambered guns and in all cases I’ve found a gun will shoot one of them well but not the other. No gun of several I’ve tried so far have liked both. One or the other but not both. Group averages with this load stayed under 2” and varied but a little from group to group. Best was 1.5” and worst 2.5”. Pretty consistent performance I thought.

I wonÂ’t list all of the reloads I tried in this gun. But over the time I kept it I tried a LOT of them. IÂ’d have tried a lot more IF the cylinder had been longer. I had a hard time fitting a lot of loads to it I wanted to try. The Freedom Arms bullets wonÂ’t fit in a full length case if you seat to the cannelure. You have to shorten a case to do that. IÂ’ll not list the loads I used with shortened cases anywhere as they were experimentation and not from a book as books donÂ’t list shortened cases. This same situation applied to my bullets I cast from the Lyman 452651 mould. I love that bullet for the .454 Casull but the nose is just too long for this gun. Cases have to be shortened to allow a proper crimp and really it just isnÂ’t worth the effort. I tried the Valiant 250 RNFP bullets I had in a variety of loads from mild to pretty hot with several powders. Some shot well and some shot miserably. They are a bevel base hard cast lead bullet with no gas check. Leading with some loads was bad! With others very light.

This was one I’d sure like to have kept but my finances really don’t allow me to pay the tariff on this gun. I’d have tried to talk Bob into trading it to me for advertising but my attempts to do that with the FA83 had already shown me he wasn’t so inclined so I saved us both the trouble and when he asked for the return I just packed it up and sadly said goodbye to it. Some day if I get to where I can see my way clear to owning one of Bob’s super fine guns I’m thinking one of the FA97s in .41 Magnum would be the “cat’s meow” for me. Dunno why but that’s the one I’d really like to own in this light weight high quality handgun. I think it would be well matched to the light weight of this revolver and at the ranges I can see to shoot game with iron sights has more than enough power to get the job done. It sure would be a nice choice to right my right hip on deer hunts here in Bama.

Here is another shot of the gun showing that nice leather Bob send along with it for me to carry afield. Nice holster. It and me went a bunch of miles together and I send it back with a lot more scratches than it had when it arrived.



Many thanks to Bob Baker for the loan of this revolver for way longer than the normal loan period. Guess I should have sent it back sooner but just hated to part with it and knew that Bob knew where it was and when he decided he needed it heÂ’d let me know. Kept hoping my ship would come in and I could afford to buy it but such was not the case. This one is a real winner folks. It definitely gets the Graybeard Seal of Approval. And Bob if you ever decide to trade a handgun for a whole bunch of advertising on my site you have my phone number.

You can visit the Freedom Arms website at: http://www.freedomarms.com/  If you like finely made revolvers you own it to yourself to at least take a look. Here is an image from that site of the FA97 so ya can see it one more time in this review.




This one looks more like it is set up for CAS than hunting as was the one I reviewed. Now that would be a quality piece of  CAS shooting gear if there ever was one.

You can phone or write to Freedom Arms at the following:

314 Highway 239 * Freedom Wyoming USA * 83120
307-883-2468
GB


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline SingleFan

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2006, 09:56:00 AM »
GB,

Thanks for the write up.  There is a 7-1/2 M97 in 45 colt sitting in my favorite gun shop...however...your instinct on the M97 .41 mag is a good call.  I have that one in the closet.  Not your length, mine is a 4-1/4 because I wanted primarily a packin gun out of the 97.

Accuracy surprised me.  I shoot Winchester Platinums out of it and can regularly get 1-1/4 groups at 25 yards.  Now the test target is just one hole mind you.  41 and the 97 is a good combination.  But you surprise me when you say that would be a "cat's meow" for you.  I thought you were done with the 41 due to lack of 'hog penetration'.  Anyway, I think you would like the gun as much as you suspect you would.

One last point, I don't know what your experience was concerning the difference in actions between the 97 and the 83, but the trigger on the 83 can be made much smoother than on the 97.  I bought the action job on my 97 and they say they can't do any better than what I got, and my 83 is muuuchh smoother.
When the heart is light the feet are swift.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2006, 06:57:42 PM »
I found nothing to complain about on the trigger/action of the M97. If it wasn't as good as the two M83s I've reviewed then it would take someone with a more sensitive finger than mine to tell it. Now Dennis did bring both of his M97s down one day when he visited (.44 Special and .41 Magnum) and I was able to tell some slight difference in them but the biggest difference was the grips. It as almost like holding two different brands of guns even tho both supposedly had the same grips on them.

For me a .41 mag will never be more than a deer gun again I don't think. However that new Winchester 250 JHP might make it more as would a cast bullet in that weight range.

After shooting the .44 Special of Dennis' it confirmed that one of those sure would be a nice one to have. Perhaps some day my ship will come in and I can just buy anything I want with abandon.  :o


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline ratgunner

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2006, 12:34:14 PM »
So now that your done with it GB,you can send it to me.LOL.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2006, 05:41:25 PM »
Sorry but that one went back to Bob at Freedom Arms several years ago. This is an old review, from back before we changed to this software and maybe even before we went to PHPBB. I can't even recall when I did the original review.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline 2 dogs

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2006, 07:48:31 AM »
I just wanted to thank you for the review and to let you know I just purchased a model 97 5.5 inch 44 special myself.  Figured I been lurking here long enough.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 11:25:50 AM »
I just wanted to thank you for the review and to let you know I just purchased a model 97 5.5 inch 44 special myself.  Figured I been lurking here long enough.

I think you'll love that one, it's about as perfect as it gets. I'd love to have one just like yours IF I had the bucks to spend on it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline 2 dogs

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2006, 03:27:59 PM »
We will just have to figure a way to get together so you can shoot it some!

Offline canyon-ghost

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 07:45:22 AM »
:D  Nice, love to have one.  :o
Can't hit the broad side of a barn with a very big rock!

Offline CouchTater

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 05:38:12 AM »
Yeah, if the .41 Mag can house a warm 250 grain cast load without risk of cylinder lockup, that would be awesome. Of course the first thing we'd need to do with it is rob a stagecoach to pay off the credit card!

Offline SingleFan

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2007, 09:09:07 AM »
The M97 .41 mag shoots those Winchester 250 gr JHP quite well.  Tell you what though, they are a handful in my little gun; the bbl length on mine is 4-1/4 (packing gun).  My DA 44 mag has less felt recoil.

For cast (and I do intend to try them when I get around to it), LBT has a 220 grainer I think I'd like to try; unless I can get Marshall at beartooth to mix me up a batch of WFNGC in the 220-240 that will fit in my M97.
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Offline msmith

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 02:57:25 PM »
GB,

I have an 83 in 454 but have a real hankerin' for a 41 for some reason. I figured on another 83, but the 97 sure does seem sweet. Now I'm torn. My best friend is getting ready to purchase a 97 with a 5.5 inch barrel in 45. I may wait and play with his some before deciding.

Mike
Mike

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 06:31:56 PM »
Strange timing in bringing this back up. Just today I made a decision to buy me one of the FA97s in .45 Colt and it will be just like the one in this review when I get the money together for it. Dunno how long that will take but I'm thinking I need two really one in .357 Magnum and one in .45 Colt both 7.5" barrels both set up just like the one in this review. Wish I'd had the money back then to keep this one. Such is life.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2008, 12:46:15 AM »
the 44specials are the way to go in a 97. there stout enough guns to darned near run 44 mag level loads in and you dont have the bullet lenght problems the 41 and 45 have.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2008, 01:47:57 AM »
It was a tough decision between the .44 Special and the .45 Colt Lloyd but in the end the .45 Colt won out. I did buy one set up exactly like the one I did the review on long ago right down to the holster. I've not done a lot of shooting with it yet but expect to do more now that the weather is warming up. I've got a scope base I'll mount on it to work up my loads with so I'm sure it's the gun not me making the groups and then as soon as I settle on a load or two for it I'll pull it back off and just use the factory irons from that point on.

Some day I might wind up with another in .44 Special.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2008, 04:27:11 AM »
sure would have been nice if theyd have opened that frame up just a tad more and put just a smidge longer clyinder in it. Keep in mind bill that im a fan of the 44s anyway and thats why mine would  be a special. Ive just had to work to hard on 45s to get accuracy on par with 44s to have to hamstring myself with having to use only short bullets. One thing the FA has going for it is that if a bullet will possibly shoot it will probably shoot in a FA gun
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2008, 09:32:55 AM »
I had no trouble getting excellent accuracy from the first one I reviewed. While I've not shot the one I purchased all that much yet what I have shot from it seems quite accurate as well. It will take any bullet the old Colt SAA guns will take. To be honest I'm not interested in the big heavies or the high performance loads in this smaller gun.

I expect that the RCBS 270 SAA bullet and the Lyman 255s will be what I use mostly in it. Either one pushed to close to 1000 fps will do all I'll ever ask of this revolver. The Lyman 452651 works fine in it also if you seat it deep and crimp on that front crimp groove. From my allow they drop about 318 grains and were quite accurate in the test revolver. Recoil can get quite vicious with them tho if you push them very fast.

I've got those RCBS 270 SAA bullets you sent me I'll be trying soon and if they work as expected I'll probably order me a mould and cast some up even tho I've not cast a bullet in at least five years.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline IronAir

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2008, 12:21:18 PM »
I think you're going to find that the 270 SAA is too long for the M97 unless you plan on crimping in front of the first driving band.  If you do it that way though, it kind of defeats the purpose of the front drive band. 

I have one of these, and I am learning first hand what Lloyd and others have said about the limited selection of bullets.  You can trim the cases back to accept any bullet you want, but you can't get away from the fact that the throat is only about .300 inches long.  So if you want the front of the bullet supported in the throat you need to pick a pretty short nosed bullet.

I'm not sure if there are any Keith bullets that will work properly in this gun.  Maybe one of Veral's WFNs would be a better way to go.

It would be interesting to hear what everyone is using in their 45 cal. M97's.  I know there was some mention of this in a past thread, probably more than once.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2008, 05:53:10 PM »
The bullet was designed to work in Colt SAA revolvers. The FA97 cylinder is supposed to take the same C.O.L. as the Colt SAA I belive. So far it's not really proven a problem for me. But yes if needed I will trim 100 or so cases for use with that bullet not a big deal.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2008, 11:23:18 AM »
A guy had one at the last linebaugh seminar i attended. It was a new gun and he didnt really work at loads much for it yet. We tried some of mine and the rcbs 300 swcgc fit in it but they were right to the end of the cylinder. He shot about 4 or 5 cylinder fulls out of it and had no problem. Id consider a good firm crimp and good brass if you do it to insure the bulelts dont jump because if they did even slightly theyd tie the gun up. the rcbs 270 has about an identical nose so i would guess it would fit in it but it would be tight.
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Offline GRainwater

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2008, 01:03:16 PM »
270 SAA are too long for my FA97.  Have to trim the brass back a bit but it is definitely worth it.  Haven't tried them past 50 yards yet but they shot incredible at that distance, better than all the bullet types I have tried (~25 types).

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2008, 05:54:28 PM »
What kinda load you using with it? I've been thinking about 17.5 grains of 2400 as that's one of my favorites in the .44 Magnum with 240-250 grain bullets and should get me about the velocity I'm wanting in my FA97.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Rainwater

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2008, 05:46:21 AM »
With the 270 SAA my main load is 6.9gr TiteGroup which clocks at 911 fps and Quickload estimates the pressure at 18,000 PSI.   This is the very accurate load.  OAL=1.625".

For a faster load I tried 18.0, 19.5 & 20.9 gr.  of Lil'Gun which gives 1,108 to 1252 fps.  Accuracy for these loads varied from 2 1/2" (18.0 grs) to 3" (19.5 & 20.9) at 50 yards.  Quickload estimated PSI is 17k, 19k, & 22k. 

A case full of TrailBoss (1.57 gr) was 849 fps and group size was 2 1/2" at 50 yards.

Offline ole 5 hole group

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2010, 07:59:35 AM »
Been awhile since anyone has posted on this thread but I thought I'd share a good load that I stumbled upon, as I haven't found many that will shoot at or under an inch.  I found the beartooth 325 grain HC in front of 21.0 grains of H110 using a WLP primer shot groups between 0.5 & 0.6 inches consistently at 25 yards rested.  A 240 grain Hornady XTP bullets in front of 22.0 grains of VV N110 shot right at 3/4" consistently at 25 yards rested.  With the slow twist rate of the '97 I haven't found anything that works very well under 1,000fps in my FA97.   

Offline Lawful Larry

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2010, 12:36:42 PM »
I was on another forum and a guy over there had a problem loading factory ammo in his new 97.  Now I can understand why they made the cylinder a tad sort because of safety reasons.  I do a lot of work with Ruger Vaqueros and Colt clones and understand the importance of not loading heavy hunting loads in Colts or clones.  But factory ammo???

When he called the FA company an individual told him that this was common feature and that it was a fact that everyone knew about.  Well he told the factory rep. that there was nothing in print on this subject and if he didn't know about it then it was obvious that everyone did not know of it! 

I love the .45 Colt round and have many guns in that caliber.  I would get very mad if I was new to the Freedom Arms line, but with the exception of the sturdyness of the gun.  And after buying one of these models (97) and finding out that factory ammo will  not load in it.  I think that FA should but this fact in writting somewhere on their site or  advertisement.  I  love heavy hunting handguns and have known a little about the reliability and construction of these guns, but this is the first I have heard of this quirk on this model myself.  RANT over!     ;D
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline Yosemite Sam

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2010, 08:47:07 AM »
I saw that post, or one like it.  It wasn't clear to me what "factory" ammo the guy was trying to put in his gun.  You can buy 325gr Buffalo Bore "factory" ammo, which I bet does not conform to the SAAMI spec of 1.600" OAL.

While I agree that the info could be a little more "obvious", or even amplified by FA, the point is their gun supports ammo that meets the SAAMI specification.  Do you see warnings plastered all over Colt's site?  The 97 can use the same cartridges as the Colt SAA.

One might even argue that places like Buffalo Bore should be a little more forthcoming with the fact that their ammo exceeds both length and pressure specs.  Simply saying, "Not for use in a New Model Vaquero" doesn't really cut it anymore (especially since they're no longer using the word "New" on the New Vaqs).

All that said, I do wish FA made it a little more obvious that the 97 is a distinctly different gun than the 83 series.  Yes, the intelligent consumer can make these determinations and inferences by reading the specs and supported calibers, but some people need very simple, straightforward data to get the point.  People see "Freedom Arms" and they think "BFG", and that's not always the case.

-- Sam

Offline Lawful Larry

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2010, 11:35:48 AM »
I couldnt agree more Sam.  Well said!!!
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline DJWright

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Re: Freedom Arms Model 97 .45 Colt
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2011, 04:42:03 AM »
Have been wanting on in .44 spl. so bad I can't stand it. Just can't decide if I want a 4.25 or the 5.5" barrel length.
I don't worry bout nothin', cuz nothin's alright!