Pen Raised Huge Hog--Shoot/Don't Shoot?

[mikemayberry]

Lot's of talk about 'Ol Fred" the 1,050 lb. hog that was killed in Alabama by the 11 year old.  Now seriously ask yourself, would you have gone after him?  Would you have taken the shot(s) if you knew he was just out of the pen?  Makes me stop and wonder--the two times I have been on in a similar opportunity for hog hunts, I didn't ask and they didn't tell me how long the hogs had been out.  They weren't this big, but they got shot without knowing if they had been out a day or a year.

Just wondering!

Mike

 

[mikemayberry]

Sorry guys, meant to put this under Handgun Hunting and messed it up.  Maybe the Moderator can help me move it.

M

[NONYA]

add another option..   0  dont hunt high fence

[Graybeard]

I've shot hogs with handguns inside a fenced are a couple of times and yes I did ask. The first time I was told the enclosure was approximately 2000 acres and in places I noticed the fence was down so for sure they were truly "enclosed" as they could get out should they wish and should they find the downed areas of the fence. In this case they were using traps set into the fence to catch ferals from the National Forest Land adjoining the preserve and turning loose inside it those they wanted to have their clients shoot. If a female or a small one it was released back into the NF land instead. If the client requested a hog over 300 pounds it was purchased and brought in from an outside source and placed in a smaller enclosure just for that client. No doubt some of those over 300 pound hogs were pen raised.

The other place was approximately 1100 acres of the thickest Florida jungle you can imagine and the hogs in there were wild as any and were breeding freely and raising their young inside that area. We saw hogs of all sizes and age classes and we were hunting smaller "meat hogs" of about 100 pounds or less not so much as a hunt but for eating them.

All the rest of my hog hunting has been for totally free ranging hogs not contained in any way by a fence.

[sk330lc]

I take this would have been someones Breeding Bore..  I Can't see the sport in hunting tame hogs.  Now If they were left to run free for a year or so I would say free chase .. It doesn't take long for a hog to go back to it's wild roots.  I have never hunted Fenced grounds, How do they build there fences to hold Hogs. I know on our old feed lots, we had to put about 18" of Wire under ground to keep them in . They can dig to China if ya give them a chance.

[NONYA]

Im sure a daily ration of corn keeps em close.

[GRIMJIM]

I checked maybe. I normally wouldn't hunt fenced in game , but if I was there and saw that huge hog I would probably shoot. I'm sure the guide didn't tell that kid that it was a family pet either. And How was he supposed to know, he's only 11. Now we know all the details, if I had known beforehand that they brought in farm animals like that I wouldn't have booked the hunt in the first place. I guess there are some people that consider shooting an animal in a pen hunting, but I'm not one of them.

[Dusty Miller]

I guess if one of my neighbor's geese fly over the fence and I nail it with my Berretta 12 ga. then I'm a goose hunter?

[NONYA]

Absolutely!   ROFL!,i poached a few chickens out of neighbors chicken pen with a bb gun when i was a kid,i guess im an accomplished chicken hunter!

[corbanzo]

There is a difference between hunting and butchering.  This being butchering.  Heck yeah I would shoot that hog!!!  That's a WHOOOOOOOOLE lotta bacon!!  Though it is only for the bacon, cause I wouldnt call it hunting.

[blhof]

I haven't shot pen raised hogs; but I have been paid in Florida to remove wild hogs from new construction sites.  They will totally eliminate a newly landscaped yard in a few hours.  I baited and used a crossbow, could usually get 2 before they knew what was happening. You only get about 2 to 3 chances before they move on.  I got paid, got meat for the freezer and the developer got his property back for a while; they do come back and people don't scare them for long.  I've seen them in densly populated subdivisions and seen their devistation.  They'll plow an 8' wide swath through 3 to 4 yards and take out entire flower beds in a single night.

[Lloyd Smale]

as usual i will fly against the grain. I see nothing wrong with it. I look at it this way what makes more sense to me going to the store and buying porkchops that are raised and killed in captivity or going somewhere and doing the killing myself. Theres alot of people that live in areas that dont have wild bore running free and some live in areas where there is no land to hunt any big game. So whats wrong with them paying to hunt somewhere if thats what they choose to do. Theres nobody telling you that you have to and its not hurting you in anyway. So why stand against it. Its little things like these division in hunting ethics that the anti hunters key in on. Bottom line is that if you are a hunter and you want to stay hunting you should stand behind anyone that hunts in a leagal fassion. No matter what weapon they chose or hunting method. Same goes with baiting. Ive just had to laugh to many times at people bitching that hunting over bait is not sporting but will post on the edge of a corn field or in an oak plantation or an apple orchard and do the same dammed thing. Hunting is something that has been imbedded in this civilization since the dawn of time and what it is is gathering food. Nothing more nothing less. If you want to make it into some holy crusade who is more unethical, you for trying to make it more then taking food, or some guy that pays 300 bucks to go and take his food. Dont you understand that even if you walk in the woods hunting your game some anti hunter is going to say your sneaking around like some kind of wanabe  soldier trying to kill something. I dont judge ANYONES ethics and will not stand to have them judge mine. If it is leagal it is ethical.

[doncisler]

really depends on the size of the enclosure, terrain in the enclosure and how long they have been roaming.  went to ted nugents  ranch in michigan (russian boar raised in canada with minimal human contact) which is only one half square mile or so.
i also hunted a ranch in oklahoma (captured feral hogs from state and federal parks) that we rode in pickups for a half hour just to spot some to let the dogs run them.  you would not have known that it was a fenced enclosure - much larger than our hunting tracts up here in michigan.

[Redhawk1]

as usual i will fly against the grain. I see nothing wrong with it. I look at it this way what makes more sense to me going to the store and buying porkchops that are raised and killed in captivity or going somewhere and doing the killing myself. Theres alot of people that live in areas that dont have wild bore running free and some live in areas where there is no land to hunt any big game. So whats wrong with them paying to hunt somewhere if thats what they choose to do. Theres nobody telling you that you have to and its not hurting you in anyway. So why stand against it. Its little things like these division in hunting ethics that the anti hunters key in on. Bottom line is that if you are a hunter and you want to stay hunting you should stand behind anyone that hunts in a leagal fassion. No matter what weapon they chose or hunting method. Same goes with baiting. Ive just had to laugh to many times at people bitching that hunting over bait is not sporting but will post on the edge of a corn field or in an oak plantation or an apple orchard and do the same dammed thing. Hunting is something that has been imbedded in this civilization since the dawn of time and what it is is gathering food. Nothing more nothing less. If you want to make it into some holy crusade who is more unethical, you for trying to make it more then taking food, or some guy that pays 300 bucks to go and take his food. Dont you understand that even if you walk in the woods hunting your game some anti hunter is going to say your sneaking around like some kind of wanabe  soldier trying to kill something. I dont judge ANYONES ethics and will not stand to have them judge mine. If it is leagal it is ethical.

Again Lloyd you make very good points. You and I think alike. )

[NONYA]

If its legal its ethical?That's a generalization of the unethical.If you ethical standards are based on US laws you really have none.

[Graybeard]

Ethics are personal and private and just because someone else's doesn't agree with yours does not make them or you right or wrong. Ethics cannot be legislated and what ALL of you need to get thru your heads is that YOUR ETHICS are NOT the rest of the world's ethics and that YOUR ETHICS are no better or worse than anyone else's. Whatever one person can live with is their ethics, learn to live with it.

This constant and continuous bickering and disagreement over what is and is not acceptable for hunting is what's going to end hunting NOT the folks who you disagree with but the disagreement. If you side with the anti's against ANY legal hunting method then you are THE PROBLEM not the SOLUTION. Sooner or later they will pick us apart one method at a time and at the end when you've sided with the anti's and done away with all those other hunting methods that you don't like, don't agree with or don't do guess what? Ain't gonna be no one left to stand with you to protect YOUR hunting method when the anti's take it from you also. If you can't understand that and can't accept that then I feel sorry for you and for all of us cuz it means the anti's have already won.

Now as to hunting hogs. Hogs to me are food and nothing more really. When I go out for them I don't apply the same "ethics if you will" that I do for game animals. They are NOT game animals anywhere that I'm aware of. They are barn yard food critters. Gone wild perhaps or perhaps not but to me they are just food for the table and nothing more and that's the attitude I take toward them. Same as I don't apply the same standards to varmints, pests and such. How I take them is less concern to me than just that I do. Yup I'm sure not all agree with that. Guess what? I really could care less.

[Redhawk1]

Graybeard you are absolutely right.  The sport and life of hunting has changed and hunter agents hunter is a cancer. The bow hunter can't stand the crossbow hunter, the traditional muzzleloader shooters don't like the inline muzzleloader's and the list goes on and on. It is the premadonna guy that thinks he knows everything that is causing an inner destruction of our sport.

I have back off trying to argue all these point, because frankly some guys are a lost cause. I am so sick of the buzz words, such as free range hunters. Everyone has there reason for the way they hunt and as long as it is legal, who cares. People forget, the Anti's don't want ANY HUNTING, NO ETHICS involved what so ever. All you guys that think your way is the right way, you are WRONG. Take a good look at yourselves in the mirror and do me a favor, SLAP YOURSELF. 

[Lloyd Smale]

i too get sick of people preaching ethics to me Bill. The same people that preach against unethical hunting will turn around and do other unethical things like drinking and driving fooling around on there wives or doing shaddy bussiness deals but think there holier then thou because they just happen to have been born in an area where game is plentiful. Some people arent that foutunate and for them to invest the time and money it takes to even go on a canned hunt shows me that they are more of a sportsman then a guy who walks out of his back door after breakfast and pops a deer or elk over the first ridge and is back by lunch and back out that night probably trying to fill his wifes tag illegaly. Bill said it and ill say it again. YOU WANT TO LOOSE YOUR HUNTING RIGHTS! start picking apart the way someone else hunts and let some liberal sob get wind of it. Just ask Ted Nugget about the loosing fight he put on here in michigan a state that is usually pro hunting over the hunting of pigeons. A bird thats nothing but a nussience but now protected from hunting here becasue a few hunters couldnt understant that people wanted to hunt a typical non game animal. These so called pro hunters went even on tv and made commercials saying that it was wrong. Come to find out it was the anti hunters from all over this country that funded the commercials  So be careful whos side your taking on hunting in inclosures as alot of the land out west that is hunted is fenced and could easily be twisted around by some idiot politiitician to be considered a canned hunt.

[SHOOTALL]

GRAYBEARD , never heard it put better !
Lloyd Smale , i plant clover cause baiting with corn is illegal , now if some one hunts in the wide open places good for them but in VA ya need a draw to get the deer on your hunting land ! now tell me whats the difference other than the clover is easier and cheaper ! i agree with ya !

[billy_56081]

Well put Graybeard.

  I've hunted Open range deer here in MN that at times were much easier to hunt than hogs penned in on 800 plus acres in Texas.

  Heck the first big critter I had ever shot was a hog still in the pen when I was 6. Right after I shot him we butchered him, cooled him and put him on the spit. He was delicious.

  I have taken my kids to shoot hogs in Texas since they were very small. Hunting maybe. Fun defintley. When I'm dead and gone the kids will remember those trips. They are both very into hunting. Both have shot deer, bear, and numerous species of small game.

  When it comes to hunting methods I say to each there own. While I would not use some of the methods used by others, I welcome them as an allie agains the anti hunting/gun forces that are trying every concievable method to take away our lifestyle.
 

[drdougrx]

OK....I voted probably not.  But I have and do continue to hunt high fenced ranches.  Sorry... I know what it is, it's food, a trophy and a vacation.  I don't make any assumptions that it's wilderness hunting though sometimes it can be difficult, especially on large properties of 1,000 acres or more.  Please see my thread in the Hunting section under, "How important are trophies to you?" 

If I knew the hog, deer, etc was a family pet....I would not shoot it (although what's the chances of the owner telling you the truth???)  On the other hand, if a preserve has a big something or other, and it was large enough (1,000 acres) and the price was right and it was a real mountable trophy and it was edible....sure. 

Here's an example.  Last year I shot a buffalo in Vermont.  Lot'sa guys said...go to N. Dakota for a REAL buffalo hunt....what are you kid'n me....what the hell's a real buffalo hunt?  Fly to ND from MA (TSA hassle ), rent car, drive for a few hours, pay for what, two nights lodging, get in pick-up, drive out to the prairie, shoot'm buffalo, winch onto back of pick-up, bring to butcher, pay butcher, buy guide dinner, pay for hunt with tip, drive back to airport, pay for car rental, TSA hassle, pay to ship back to Boston, etc, etc, etc.  Rather than drive to VT, stay in nice lodge, look for buffalo on foot for several hours, shoot buffalo from herd of 70 head, head back to lodge for Guinness, dinner , pick up butchered buffalo next morning, drive home....call everyone you know and ask if they want meat (no room in freezer).  Cost for VT hunt much less than 3k and very relaxing to boot.

Kinda silly...but...high fence hunting is what it is and in my mind, if you are going to eat it and mount it...it isn't much different than buying it at a store, or a farm and at least I can get away from my damn computer and no...it isn't hunting...anymore than the huge numbers of mulies I saw while hunting them in montana, or the deer and turkey that come into my backyard almost daily , or the nearly 100 woodland caribou I saw while hunting them in Newfi, or the dozens of bears I've seen coming into a bait, or the ..........

[drdougrx]

God...please give me the strength to keep my sorry A$$ out of these threads......

[NONYA]

Dont let the oppressive few make you feel your opinion isnt valid Doug,what are these threads for if not to share how we really feel about the topic?Im not going to dance around hinting at how i really feel as some do here,and if my upfront attitude and solid convictions make me a lost cause,GOOD,that just means that in your mind you know you cant get me to fold into one of your sheeple,I have my opinions and they are just as valid as anyone elses,just because you dont agree with a person makes them a lost cause?Take a look in the mirror yourself and try to see how far from reality you have strayed.

[Graybeard]

Dont let the oppressive few make you feel your opinion isnt valid Doug,what are these threads for if not to share how we really feel about the topic?Im not going to dance around hinting at how i really feel as some do here,and if my upfront attitude and solid convictions make me a lost cause,GOOD,that just means that in your mind you know you cant get me to fold into one of your sheeple,I have my opinions and they are just as valid as anyone elses,just because you dont agree with a person makes them a lost cause?Take a look in the mirror yourself and try to see how far from reality you have strayed.

Yup yours are JUST AS VALID as anyone else's. Just remember that tho and that they are NO MORE VALID only the same validity as others. We're not ever all gonna agree on this subject and that's fine let's just agree to disagree and not let it degenerate into name calling or personal attacks as some of these threads have.

[Lloyd Smale]

NONYA your opinion is worth just as much as mine. How much that is here is debatable though   Theres nothing wrong with your convictions as long as you dont try to tell someone else theres arent valid too. I hunt at our family camp in northern michigan. The deer heard here is down pretty bad lately and alot of people push for quality deer managament around here. (taking 6 point or better bucks) Its something i truely believe in and have practiced myself for over 15 years. We have proably 10 hunters at our camp and when the years came that it was law everyone practiced it but the years the law wasnt in effect only about half did. I tried preaching like a hign and mighty gospel preacher to them about the fact that they were just wrong doing what they were doing but eventually realized it was me that was wrong. Thinking on it i was preaching to my dad who doesnt have many hunting seasons left on this old earth and hunting means more to him then breathing. I was also preaching to a few young nephews that love to hunt and have shot the truck load of deer that i have. To them a spike buck means more then a 10 pointer does to me and who the hell am i to take that away from them. Sure i get flustered when im walking through the woods and see a small buck  and pass and about a half hour later hear a shot and go say hi to that little buck on the buck pole at camp. But then i look at the smile on my dads or nephews face and know that its a trophy to them and all it would have been to me is some back straps. Same with the high fense hunting. Its there if you want it and nobody is forcing anyone to hunt there. Ive spent some very pleasurable days kicking around the swamp in there shooting pigs or chasing around in the higher ground and shootiing a bufflalo. I know im not stalking a cape bufflalo in africa! What im doing is having fun and for about a grand putting 500 lbs of good health meat in the freezer. If nothing else, wheres a guy going to get meat that cheaply.  Im also spending quality time with my family and my good freinds, how can it get any better then that. Go out west to the dakotas where the buffalo are free ranging and see what kind of a hunt you go on there. Your not stalkiing buffalo through the high grass. Your walking up to a heard pickinng your animal and shooting it. Doesnt sound much differnt then my hunt. Last time i looked those wild buffalo didnt have indian feathers in there heads and hide behind trees. Now i have my ideas for a hunt like that myself and would never take a rifle after a pig or a buffalo in the wild or a pen. To me that would make it a little to boring. But chasing a boar though the swamp and getting close enough to count its eyelashes with a handgun can be fun. At least to me it is anyway.

[corbanzo]

At least if you are going to bicker and side with an anti... take them hunting.   

You can really feel the love in this thread.   

[SHOOTALL]

these are great post , we can see America , some want freedom to live by their morals and ethics like the founding fathers set up the country !
And others trying to influence , shame , demand , etc. others to adopt their morals and ethics with out thinking for themselves in the name of saving hunting !
when one considers tradition , location , laws , game control needs etc. we will always differ on ethics and that is a good thing , at least to a free man ! the danger is not in standing alone ! it is in being absorbed and losing all freedom !

[Redhawk1]

NONYA nobody is asking you to dance around how you feel. But to make it out like you are a victim of our criticism, that is just your own paranoia. As far as making you a sheeple, I don't see anyone here that fits that description. But just for your information, I gave up on you after your 50 Cal ban adventure.    

[dukkillr]

65% said no
15% said probably not. 

Those stats are from a hunters, I would assume the general public would be something 99% no and .9% probably not.  I think it's safe to assume that the majority of hunters think this type of killing does not reflect well on hunters and does not represent hunting as a sport.  I get that some of you believe any legal is ethical.  I think that's nuts, complete nuts actually, but to each their own.  I can't imagine having my ethics tied to congress, what could be less ethical than that? 

But the important part of this discussion isn't my ethics, or your ethics, it's voter opinion.  If 80% of hunters don't like the idea of shooting a tame pig and calling it hunting, maybe we should take Graybeard and Redhawks advice and all stick together, but all stick together in our renouncing what this guy and his kid did.  Clearly the majority already think it, and it could only improve our image.

In a democracy ultimately public opinion is the ruling force, if hunters chain their boat to this type of thing they may ultimately find their boat sinking.  I'm not willing to give up real hunting to protect this stuff.

[Redhawk1]

dukkillr, don't twist my words. I would not of shot the pig myself knowing the circumstances. But again NOT all high fenced hunts are like that particular incident.
I have hunted twice in 35 years of hunting in a high fenced hunt. The smallest being 5000 Acers. But I never looked down on others that want to hunt high fences all the time. You are taking one incident and making it like all high fenced operations are one in the same. They are not.

Do you want to know what is killing our sport and that is just what hunting is, a sport. We are in a day and age of food markets on every corner and don't need to hunt to survive. We all do it for pleasure and the freedom to be out in nature.  But what is killing our sport is the constant destruction from within our own group.
What don't you understand, the Anti's don't want us to hunt no matter how ethical or unethical we think it is. When hunter goes agents hunter, the only ones that win are the anti's.

I am sure you and your buddy NONYA will have a bunch to add to your stance, but I don't think everyone is on your boat. Sure people have voted that they would not of shot that pig, but that is after they found out it was a family pet. So your numbers are a bit scud.