Are long shots ethical?

[nomosendero]

ask kreg slack,he has shot prairie dogs as far out as 3,125 yards.
from an article by steve hugel in (the accurate rifle magazine) february 2002.

the only way i could bring up the article was to type in the name (steve hugel) on google,
and scroll to the bottom of the page.
article name- THE QUEST FOR THE TWO MILE PRAIRIE DOG.  good reading.

I do believe, he did ,but not with the first and only shot.Wandering shots into your target does not constitute precision shooting.Speaking in military terms:A maschine gunner who wanders his shots into a given target at extended range would also be considered a Sniper, would he?He is doing exactly the same only with bursts.I don't believe,walking shots into a extended target (game) has anything to do with ethical hunting.

Nor does it have anything at all to do with this subject.

[brenneke]

...I don't believe,walking shots into a extended target (game) has anything to do with ethical hunting.

So what about a well-prepared hunter who laser ranges an animal, determines the wind to be virtually nil, twists his target knob accordingly (or uses mil-dots or whatever), uses a suitable rest and makes a long one-shot kill?  Ethical or not?

As i have said before,if it is within your skill level, sure,but my reference was about the comment made about that kraig slack character.There isn't arifle made,yet that is able to hold Minute of Gopher all the way out to 3125 yards.Which means that he is using live animals for testing and his own ego.In my opinion,no-one should attempt to shoot a living creature,if you can not guarantee that you will hit it.It is something completely different,when you shoot at an animal under hunting situations,where you are sure that you hit but you did not.It is a different ballgame,when you shoot at an animal and you know that you never shot at that given distance or at that angle etc.That makes you a shooter at live animals and not a hunter.
If there is a chance that you would get hurt if your first shot isn't true i.e.Grizzly hunt.Would you still shoot at a Grizzly at 700yds, when you know that you will have to go after it if you messed up???I have been in situations where everything was resting on that one shot and where the chances of getting hurt or killed where pretty high.I don't even shoot at coyotes or gophers at a distance,where subconsciously,i have doubts of a first shot hit.We have all been exposed to different things in life and i have lernt my lessons when it comes to shooting when you should not.

[SHOOTALL]

It seems many feel that long range shots are stunts , much as hunting with a handgun was viewed in the early years !
Both have benefited from upgrades in equipment ! And both are viable forms of taking game by the experienced and practiced shooters ! It is important  that new shooters do not confuse a few lucky shots at a target with the skill needed to preform long range shooting at will under all kinds of conditions , the most important skill is knowing when not to shoot !
people  often say they are good shots can hit the target every time , a great shot can call his shot , try this , put up a target at say 150 yards make your best shot , don't look at the target until you state where you hit ! Take a target like the one you are shooting at and put a mark where you think you hit , if you can match  most of the time you are becoming a good shot ! if you can do it at 500 you will have few peers !

[jdt48653]

in my (own) opinion,unless your hunting for( meat to survive only) myself included,your already on an ego trip!
and the greatest hunters miss and wound animals when everything is perfect.
some tend to adjust their ethic`s to fit their situation.just my opinion.

[SHOOTALL]

ego trip ? so if i decide to feed myself I'm on an ego trip ?
If i plant my own garden or catch my own fish I'm on an ego trip ?
bravo sierra !

[jdt48653]

i was commenting on brenneke`s response to my comment.read it!

[SHOOTALL]

IF you say so , mighty broad statement !
by the way don't confuse ethics with character !

[brenneke]

in my (own) opinion,unless your hunting for( meat to survive only) myself included,your already on an ego trip!
and the greatest hunters miss and wound animals when everything is perfect.
some tend to adjust their ethic`s to fit their situation.just my opinion.

As i said,no rifle is capable of shooting Gophers at that distance with precision.Even if you take the shooter errors out of the equation and wind,barometic pressure, mirage ,magnus effect etc would always be the same,you still could not make that shot,not even with a 50-50 chance.All it is ,is taking pot shots at animals in order to be published, hence the comment.If your rifle would hold a group with 5 shots at a 1000yds at say,2",at the distance you mentioned it would be say 6",if everything stays the same.I never have seen a gopher with vital areas of 6",have you??Why not shoot at a steel gong the size of a gopher,it would be same mit no harm done,if you hit it badly!

[jdt48653]

thanks for correcting my mis- statements.

[NONYA]

hit it badly? ROFL! i have hit gophers badly at 20 yards with every weapon you can think of,rifle,shotgun,pistol,bow,bb gun,rock.....who gives a damn if you hit a gopher badly?

[brenneke]

hit it badly? ROFL! i have hit gophers badly at 20 yards with every weapon you can think of,rifle,shotgun,pistol,bow,bb gun,rock.....who gives a damn if you hit a gopher badly?

Each to their own,i guess.

[Coyote Hunter]

...who gives a damn if you hit a gopher badly?

More than a few folks, I reckon...

[nomosendero]

"Some tend to adjust their ethics to fit their situation."    Hey, this is supposed to be about shooting, not Socialist Demoncraps!!    
 

[IOWA DON]

I see two issues in regards to ethics. One is the people side in regards to laws, regulations, and not taking more than ones fair share. the other is in regard to treatment of animals. I think this thread mostly concerns animals and that they deserve a humane death. Lots of non-hunters think that hunting is a cruel sport. My views may be better expressed under a different subject, but all animals will die. Non-human causes for their deaths would be disease, hunger, or being a victim of a preditor. (Have I left any out?) A well aimed bullet would be a better way to go than any of the other non-human causes. Even a wound from a poorly aimed shot would probably not result in more suffering than from any of the non-human causes. Anyway, I think we should strive to be as humane as possible hunting. However, even animals hunted by poor marksmen/hunters probably are no worse off then if killed by non-human causes.

[corbanzo]

...who gives a damn if you hit a gopher badly?

More than a few folks, I reckon...

Have you ever seen caddyshack?  We need to take every one of these gohpers as quickly as we can!! 

Those people who care are the same that care about prairie dogs, who here has killed fifty p-dogs in a day?

[Coyote Hunter]

Have you ever seen caddyshack?  We need to take every one of these gohpers as quickly as we can!! 

Those people who care are the same that care about prairie dogs, who here has killed fifty p-dogs in a day?

Never seen Caddy Shack but I've killed plenty of prairie dogs.  Used to use my scoped .22LR and shoot them out to 200 yards.  Too many wounded that would crawl back into the hole and die ugly.  Used the .22 on coyotes, too, with the same results, lost a few into their holes.  (When the entrance to the den is filled in from the inside, you can rest assured it was an ugly, lingering death.)

I no longer use a .22LR for either job - a .22-250 or .257 Roberts is the preferred tool.  Don't shoot many prairie dogs these days anyway - pretty well wiped out the local populations on the ranches where I hunt coyotes.

[brenneke]

...who gives a damn if you hit a gopher badly?

More than a few folks, I reckon...

Have you ever seen caddyshack?  We need to take every one of these gohpers as quickly as we can!! 

Those people who care are the same that care about prairie dogs, who here has killed fifty p-dogs in a day?

I do agree that we do have to take care of them.I live in an area where gophers are in abundance, but still make every shot count.Hell,where i live you shoot hundreds in half a day,if you have enough guns with you.

[NONYA]

Gopher vitals are probably 1"x 1",I d like to see you hit that spot consistently while gopher shooting.Nobody i know gives a damn where they hit them as long as they make a killing hit,22 lr HP will kill them fairly quickly no matter where they are hit.They may crawl down thier hole to be eaten by thier little buddys but they dont live long.

[nomosendero]

Gopher vitals are probably 1"x 1",I d like to see you hit that spot consistently while gopher shooting.Nobody i know gives a damn where they hit them as long as they make a killing hit,22 lr HP will kill them fairly quickly no matter where they are hit.They may crawl down thier hole to be eaten by thier little buddys but they dont live long.

Nonya, that reminds me of a guy that took his Wife on a PD hunt. She watched her hubby & a friend shoot a few of them first. She started to feel sorry for them & then through the spotting scope she saw some of the PD's start to feed on their shot budies. Then she could not kill enough of them! 

[NONYA]

Couple weeks ago I fragmented one with my .17 and then proceeded to pick off several ore of his friends as they came in to feed on his entrails,they are nasty little vermin that dont rank high enough for any ethical standards of killing in my book,I have poured gasoline down their hole and incinerated them,I have drowned em,i have trapped em,I have poisoned em and killed them with every weapon I can get my hands on,I even made tiny claymores as a kid the were remote detonated with a model rocket igniter and set them on thier mounds and waited em out.They are a great source of entertainment and a pest that can destroy good grazing land,I will never consider any meathod of killing them unethical.

[Coyote Hunter]

...they are nasty little vermin that dont rank high enough for any ethical standards of killing in my book...

Guess that's where we part company.  I don't mind killing them but in my book they deserve not to be needlessly tortured in the process.

[NONYA]

Guess that's where we part company.  I don't mind killing them but in my book they deserve not to be needlessly tortured in the process.
[/quote]
 a bit PETAish rnt ya?

[Coyote Hunter]

a bit PETAish rnt ya?

Not in the least.  But I'm not brutish, either.

[Cement Man]

Animals are just being animals.  I take no pleasure in seeing one suffer.

[SHOOTALL]

3 things come to light , if you want to eat it , you don't want to walk far from were you shot it so make a good shot ! if it ain't for the table it makes little difference where it dies ! not all but some seen to use this logic !
and next some wish not to inflict undue pain , a noble stand , but if all had that attitude would we eat ? if you farm you know of the 1000's of animals killed in field crops each year like deer and turkeys run over by combines etc. also if you farm you know the damage inflicted by gofers and other critters who dig holes and realize any shot you can get is worth taking !
the next thing , if you are starving , when do you starve ? if the store runs out of meat killed by some one else ? i should not gather meat for myself ? If some wish to make hunting a sport go for it ! but for those that view hunting as a way to fill the freezer don't look down on them they are the honest ones here , the fact that you can buy processed food has nothing to do with hunting  nor does fair chase to the hunter looking for food other than keeping his hunt legal , be he starving or not ! we have passed laws to protect the game we have , a good thing to be sure , but to look down on someone willing to take a shot you would not because you like deer and not groundhogs , is that fair ?
bottom line some want a perfect hunt others want a perfect shot and some want a full freezer and all have differed levels of skill ! whats that old saying LET YOUR CONSCIENCE BE YOUR GUIDE !

[jro45]

One of the longest shots I ever made was 600 yds and put it right in the bulls eye.

[SHOOTALL]

how big was the bull ? do ya'll have a season for cows also ?

[NONYA]

Animals are just being animals.  I take no pleasure in seeing one suffer.

 then why do you shoot them with firearms?Unless you are making a brainshot on everything you shoot there is some level of suffering EVERY time.If you dont want to hurt animals u should probably STOP SHOOTING THEM.Once you choose to hunt you have accepted the fact that there will be some suffering involved and if you are so concerned about the suffering of a wounded gopher how are you going to justify shooting them?You are going to wound a few every trip,its a fact.If you were really concerned about it you wouldn't shoot them,I think your more worried about preaching ethics than the suffering of a cannibalistic Vermin that destroys property and carries the plague.

[Cement Man]

I've killed a lot of animals - maybe many more than you.  I plan on killing a lot more.  All I said is I take no pleasure in seeing one suffer.  The rest of what you say is the result of your own imagination.

[Coyote Hunter]

SHOOTALL -

There is a vast difference between the accidental killing of a deer or turkey with a combine and the purposeful taking of game.  Having grown up on an Iowa farm, I can say I don't know any farmer that would purposely run a deer through his combine. And I am well aware of the damage caused by various rodents.  And while I've certainly shot my share of the little critters, my intent is to kill, not to wound.  A few years back my Brother-in-law shot a coyote with a .22LR and it ran off.  The next day we found it in his barn, suffering horribly.  It had rubbed much of its fur off the back part of its vbody where it had been hit.  Brother-in-law, a doctor, couldn't stomach finishing it off and the job fell to me.  Another .22 in the head just caused it more misery.  A third and fourth in rapid succession finally ended its suffering.  Other coyotes have crawled into their dens after being hit with a .22LR and the next day the den openings have been filled in from the inside.  Not hard to tell what was going on.  These days I don't use .22LR's on coyotes and I rarely use them on prairie dogs.  I take no joy is watching a wounded prairie dog struggle to crawl into its hole.  When I do shoot them, I don't stop until they quit moving or I can't see them any more.

By the way, I agree the hunters are the honest ones when it comes to meat in the freezer.  I have little tolerance for anti-hunters unless they have chosen to avoid ALL animal byproducts.

My attitudes are not anti-hunting, but are simply the result of respecting all life.  Yes, I kill bugs, but I don't tear their wings and legs off to do it.