Author Topic: extractors are "less than desirable" (Read 2009 times)

bluebayou · « **on:** June 09, 2007, 07:45:41 AM »

Wow,
After 2 years of chasing 223 empties from my ejector barrel and now 25 rounds through the new 357 barrel I would have to say, "man, I miss my ejector".

I can't imagine trying to fumble a second shot with the extractor barrel. This goes into the "what were they thinking category". Granted I was one of the guys clamoring for a 7.62x39 barrel so that I could shoot surplus in it. I never bought one and in a weird way I regret it because I handload now.

Still, this extractor is for the birds.

~Ace~ · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2007, 08:05:01 AM »

You must Really NOT like birds...

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2007, 08:35:19 AM »

Everybody has their preferences....For me..the benefits of the extractor outweigh the " fast second shot " capability..If I know I'll need the second shot..I'll use a gun that will give it to me..without having to break it open to begin with..Granted..for what these guns were designed for..having the ejectors in a shotgun configuration makes more sense..but as a rifle..it doesn't to me..They weren't never designed with speed in mind...because they are still a break action single shot...Still..it is more convenient to have it pop out into your hand than having to pull it out...and it does take some getting used to..Too bad they listened to their lawyers and bean counters and cheapened it...instead they worried at being sued from flying shell cases and didn't want to fix the problems with the rough chambers and burrs on the ejectors and the ejector housing...

How about a petition letter to Marlin/NEF asking to reconsider..? I don't know if it will help..but they may be listening now..so it might not hurt.. ?

Mac

trotterlg · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2007, 09:18:49 AM »

I remember a short time back that everyone was knocking the ejector and saying how the new extractor will cure all the ejector problems of failure to eject. This is a classic case of being careful what you wish for. A Rossi has it both ways, if the ejector spring fails to eject the case, opening the rifle fully mechanically pushes on the ejector and forces the case out of the chamber. Larry

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2007, 09:25:02 AM »

Quote

A Rossi has it both ways

True...but it isn't a Handi is it....

Seriously..do you think a Handi could be made to have it both ways? That would be interesting to say the least..

Mac

myarmor · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2007, 09:38:29 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on June 09, 2007, 09:18:49 AM

.... A Rossi has it both ways, if the ejector spring fails to eject the case, opening the rifle fully mechanically pushes on the ejector and forces the case out of the chamber. Larry

Now this is a well thought out idea.
And why didn't NEF do this?

$:-\$

-Aaron

dw06 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2007, 10:11:16 AM »

I like the ejector best,maybe because of the single shot shotguns I've shot.Using one with the extractor is a big distraction to me,just can't get used to them.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2007, 10:27:51 AM »

Some people are never happy and would bitch if hung with a brand new rope.

Those of us who shoot the multi-thousand dollar over and under shotguns at skeet have ejectors and hold our hands over the shells to prevent them from being ejected so we can then manually extact them ourselves. I just did it for 75 rounds today at skeet. Every other shooter I noticed on the range today was also shooting an O/U and doing exactly the same thing. Even tho we've bought guns with ejectors we really prefer to manually extract them ourselves.

superjay01 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2007, 10:51:25 AM »

yeah, I miss the old ejectors also. I'm glad I got most of the barrels I wanted when they still had the ejectors on them.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2007, 10:58:56 AM »

I don't mind either one, my biggest problem is switching back and forth on multiple rifles at the range, makes for some very embarrassing moments!! $:-\$

Tim

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2007, 11:16:27 AM »

I don't own a Handi with extractor and won't. Therefore I don't guess I'll be buying an more Handis. I'll miss them.

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2007, 12:13:01 PM »

Extractors are great at the range, and in the field are better than a stuck case.
That said, I'd rather have an ejector that ejects every time and catch the brass if I'm not in a hurry. I do wish my Handis were as trotterlg described the Rossi system.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2007, 12:38:25 PM »

I prefer ejectors and don't own a Handi barrel with an extractor and never will if I can manage that. With a clean and polished chamber (polished only if necessary) there is no problem with the ejectors. You can always convert an ejector to and extractor, temporarily or permanently if you desire, but unfortunately not the other way around. Those that complained until we were all forced to have extractors on new barrels and guns were selfish and foolish. H&R saw a way to save money so they did, now the rest of us, the majority, must suffer....<><....

come on you mechanical wizards, please figure out a way to convert an extractor barrel to an ejector so the majority will be satisfied. But isn't that the way this whole country has been going lately, the minority rules and makes the changes...the majority pays for the changes and suffers.......

handirifle · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2007, 01:54:40 PM »

OK, first off, I kinda like the extractor. second, what happened to all the hype about "you only need one shot", if this is true, then who cares how fast you can reload?

Some are never happy. I'd rather have this than keeping a steel rod in my pocket, to extract the case for you.

You want fast follow-up, buy a levergun! wait, I own 3 already!

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2007, 01:57:59 PM »

Is it just the Handi rifle or do the shotguns have extractors too? I haven't looked at any new H&R shotguns. My 12 guage has an ejector & really kicks out a casing. My Handi has an extractor & with a scope on it, it's kinda a pain. It wouldn't keep me from buying another one (rifle), but wouldn't buy one for certain types of hunting.

xhare · « **Reply #15 on:** June 09, 2007, 02:00:49 PM »

I wish they would do ejectors on rimmed cases and extractors on rimless, I see no need for extractors on rimmed cases except to streamline production. My older 223 barrel always extracts, but never ejects the case even though it tries.

That said, I hit myself in the face more than once with an empty 45-70 case, if the recoil did not wake me up, the case in the face would. Maybe NEF is just saving me from myself.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2007, 02:10:17 PM »

H&R said they would be switching ALL of their single shots to extractors eventually, centerfire rifles first, then shotguns and rimfires. They may have changed their mind on the shotguns and rimfires since they told us that, but only time will tell.

Tim

bluebayou · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2007, 04:09:26 PM »

WOW

I must have touched a nerve.

As the one who started this thread, let me say that the fast follow up shot isn't my main gripe with the extractor. It is plucking the bitty 357 brass that is only sticking up 1/8". That being said, I am stoked to have the 360 brass onhand and ready to load next week. For what it is worth the brass doesn't not look very malleable (it looks/feels hardened). I am wondering if the early case failures with Starline might be true.

Everyone always says that I complain a lot (I'll remember the hanging with a new rope). I just like things to be the best that they can be. It pisses my wife off that I take everything apart. I made the 6V Power Wheels Volkswagon into a 12V. I got a used dining room set and refinished it instead of buying a crap new one (but it took 18 months). I take all rifles apart to refinish and bed. Ah, and the Camaro..........

bluebayou · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2007, 04:16:53 PM »

Was just thinking that I must have been lucky. I never had any failure to eject issues except once with a some 223 handloads that still had lube on them (hot off the presses so to speak)

dw06 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2007, 04:33:38 PM »

Just don't bring your own rope.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 09, 2007, 04:45:35 PM »

There was a time..when the dreaded F.T.E. was rampant...A-lot of it because replacing a very strong spring with a weak one..because of complaints of how far the brass flew out and would hit people in the face( Duh)...When they did this..people found out just how crappy of a polishing job they we getting on the chambers..some where extremely rough..and I remember some of the pictures guys posted on them..So..in order to get them to eject..the wizards at NEF decided to kill 3 birds with 1 change..Make them all extractors....(1) save money on building them because it's cheaper to build the extractor than ejector )...(2)..Save money on labor by replacing the rough chambered barrels with replacement barrels...(3)..Save money from the so-called potential lawsuits waiting to happen...

Now..I'm no rocket scientist..(even though I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express..

)...but...My belief is that they just wanted to save money...What do you think...

Mac

bluebayou · « **Reply #21 on:** June 09, 2007, 04:57:59 PM »

Mac, I work at Wal-Mart, every bone in my body is suspicious of "changes for my own good".

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" (usually whether you like it or not)

nomosendero · « **Reply #22 on:** June 09, 2007, 06:54:51 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on June 09, 2007, 04:45:35 PM

There was a time..when the dreaded F.T.E. was rampant...A-lot of it because replacing a very strong spring with a weak one..because of complaints of how far the brass flew out and would hit people in the face( Duh)...When they did this..people found out just how crappy of a polishing job they we getting on the chambers..some where extremely rough..and I remember some of the pictures guys posted on them..So..in order to get them to eject..the wizards at NEF decided to kill 3 birds with 1 change..Make them all extractors....(1) save money on building them because it's cheaper to build the extractor than ejector )...(2)..Save money on labor by replacing the rough chambered barrels with replacement barrels...(3)..Save money from the so-called potential lawsuits waiting to happen...

Now..I'm no rocket scientist..(even though I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.. )...but...My belief is that they just wanted to save money...What do you think...

Mac

I think that about sums it up.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #23 on:** June 09, 2007, 07:09:01 PM »

My 204 has an extractor I don't like it but I deal with it. I will be a sad day if and when they convert the rim fires to extractors. It is bad enough pulling that 204 round out of the chamber I could not even imagine how bad it would would be with a rim fire. I would like to get a 17 HMR I better get one while they still offer them in the ejector. Yes I do think they found an excuse to save money.

trotterlg · « **Reply #24 on:** June 09, 2007, 07:24:56 PM »

Well.....................I work for Boeing in Seattle, I have learned one thing in 30 years: Good for Boeing = Bad for Larry, Bad for Boeing = Good for Larry. Larry

myarmor · « **Reply #25 on:** June 09, 2007, 08:09:02 PM »

At first the change over to extractor was unwelcome to me. But after more use I personally don't mind them anymore. It is a pain in the A$$ to find all the chunked 223 brass and 30-06 brass that my barrels spit out at the range.
So in essence and to each his own it applies:
-If your a varmint shooter or a target fiend, the extractor is a welcome addition.
-In the field I would prefer an ejector...but by the time I have another shot loaded up the deer are already in the thicket. So I guess the question to me is ..so what? I think it's the smoothness of the ejector in the heat of a hunt that makes many of us think it's necessary. If you didn't hit it with the first shot, then there is almost %90 that you won't do it with your next shot cause it's on the move fast... Unless you are firing from some extended ranges....then many animals can be really dumb. No I idea with whats wizzing by them

-Aaron

Victor3 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 10, 2007, 12:52:57 AM »

I don't much like the extractors. I only have one extractor bbl (.223). I grew up with a Topper 12 ga and always liked to see the shell popping out over my shoulder (Still do). Even though I handload and collect my shells now, I don't like not having the option of flinging them out of the chamber, even though I usually catch them before they do.

Reminds me of what they did to my 2000 Ford Explorer - First time I brought it in for service after the Firestone tire debacle, they restricted the top MPH on it. I don't NEED to go over that speed, but I'd rather not be artificially limited if I WANT to.

Changing the rimfire guns over to extractors seems a bit pointless. I think their sales of rimfires will suffer greatly if they do. Not many guys want to grow long fingernails...

buffermop · « **Reply #27 on:** June 10, 2007, 03:50:08 AM »

Will each new NEF gun come with its own little screwdriver you can use to pry out the shell?

Mac11700 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 10, 2007, 04:07:52 AM »

Quote

Reminds me of what they did to my 2000 Ford Explorer - First time I brought it in for service after the Firestone tire debacle, they restricted the top MPH on it.

Ford has been doing that with almost their entire vehicle line since 91...A $300 new computer will solve that and most other fuel management issues with them...I had to do it when I added a 3" Saleen Cobra dual exhaust system..larger fuel ejectors & rail and a 15lb turbo to my 98 V6 Mustang..

Mac

bluebayou · « **Reply #29 on:** June 10, 2007, 05:41:24 AM »

"Well.....................I work for Boeing in Seattle, I have learned one thing in 30 years: Good for Boeing = Bad for Larry, Bad for Boeing = Good for Larry. Larry"

LOL
I will have to remember that one.