Handi .357 Mag chamber

[db22]

Has anyone else with a .357 Magnum Handi noted that the chamber is very long? I'm seating the 180-grain Hornady XTP so far out that there is less than one bullet diameter remaining in the case. Ctg OAL is 1.8", and there is room to spare in the chamber.

I found my old Sinclair chamber-length measuring tool, dropped one of the 180-grain Hornadys into the chamber nose-first, and measured the length to the end of the chamber. When the bullet length is added in, the total came out to 2.041"! A little more arithmetic led me to conclude that a case 1.6" long would only reach to the rear cannelure on the 180-grain XTP. The .357 Maximum case is around 1.6" long -- I wonder if this barrel is chambered for .357 Max, but rollmarked ".357 Magnum" by mistake?

I ordered 100 Max cases today. Anyone got some good deer loads for the Max with 180-grain bullets?

[quickdtoo]

A lot of the 357Mag owners are able to chamber 360 DW brass/ammo in their chambers!!

Tim

[bluebayou]

I should have bought the Max brass.  Oh, well.  The 360 DW brass loaded to the cannelure with a 140gr XTP.  Drops in and out of the chamber with not resistance.  I need to figure out how to measure mine.  Maybe it won't need reaming.  Either way I will load some 360 DW asap. 

[Mitch in MI]

Didn't the older 357s shoot better with mag and dw ammo after reaming to max?
Something about the throat being not good, in addition to being too long?
Does that still apply to the newer barrels?

And who has the max reamer, anyway?

[quickdtoo]

My 35 Remington was originally a 357Mag, reamed by BigboreFan, it shot 357Max very well, and shoots 35 Rem even better!!

I think Leftoverdj has the reamer, you can catch him at Marlinowners.com probably, he posted in the Reloading forum recently.

Tim

[db22]

My .357 Mag barrel has a very long, gradual leade at the end of the chamber, way longer than any other rifle barrel I have been able to see so well (another Handi advantage -- you can look at the chamber a whole lot more easily than a bolt-action allows).

Bluebayou -- The Sinclair measuring device is nothing more than a steel rod with a couple of stops that can be locked with set screws. It just records the depth of the chamber from the bottom of a bullet to the end of the chamber. If you have a caliper with a depth-measuring function, you don't need the Sinclair device for the Handi. You can calculate cartridge overall length by measuring your bullet's length with a caliper, then dropping the bullet nose-first into the chamber until it seats loosely at the origin of the rifling (DON'T press it). Then, use your caliper's depth-measuring function to determine the distance from the base of the bullet to the end of the chamber. Add the two together, and you have the length of a cartridge with that particular bullet touching the lands of the rifling. Reduce the sum by about 0.003" to start and you have a good working cartridge overall length, for use with starting loads. Vary the overall length a thousandth at a time to see what your barrel likes best.

Example: the Honady .357" diameter 180-grain XTP is 0.750" long. From its base in MY chamber to the end of the chamber measures 1.291". Added together that's 2.041", so 2.0" to 2.001" for the loaded round should put the bullet 3 or 4 thousandths off the lands. The OAL figure I have for .357 Maximum is 1.990". Unless the brass jams against the long leade of the rifling, sounds like I have a Max chamber, whether intended by NEF or not. Once again, this is MY barrel, not a standard barrel.

Tim -- If this basement-gunsmith method sounds fishy to you, please let us know before I blow up my gun and someone else tries it and blows up THEIR gun. Thanks!

[LaOtto222]

I have an untouched 357 Mag barrel. While the lead length is plenty long for a 357 MAX, the chamber is too short. I bought 357 MAX brass and kept cutting it down until I found it to fit. The chamber is just a little longer than a 360 Dan Wesson. I will ream it 357 MAX or some other 357 cartridge one day. I have have thought about a 357 Herrett  or even a 35 REM. The laws in Indiana do not allow a rifle other than a muzzle loader or rifled shot guns to be used for deer. They are talking about changing the law to straight sided pistol cartridges in rifles for deer. That would tip the scale in favor of the 357 MAX for me.

[darkroomdan]

This is a very interesting post since I have sent my Handi in for a .357 barrel. I was wondering about the pressure issue. I found a load in the Contender section of the latest Lyman manual. It shows the Lyman 200 gr. gas check (long, semi pointy round nose) with 14 or so grains of 2400 for 1400 fps out of a 10 inch Contender. Since the Handi frame can handle many of the same cartridges as the Contender, this load should be OK in in the regular .357 Handi barrel right? Is the fps going to be up in the 1700 range with the longer 22 inch barrel of the Handi? If the chamber in the barrel I get is cut long enough for the 360 DW where do I go to get brass and  load info for it? I think it would be good to use the longer brass to make SURE that these rounds never find there way into a regular .357 revolver....

-DRD

[AtlLaw]

Example: ...that's 2.041", so 2.0" to 2.001" for the loaded round should put the bullet 3 or 4 thousandths off the lands.

Is this right?  2.041 - 2.001 = .040; I thought that was forty thousandths, not four. 
Not trying to bust your chops, but I'm old and my mind isn't as sharp as it once was and I want to make sure I'm not missing something.  Like your method of measureing, never thought of it.  I've got a Stoney Point gauge and a "down the muzzel gauge" but I don't really trust them.  I like your system and I'll add it to the other 2, take readings with all three and come up with a datum line OAL.  But I still won't try to get down to .005 off the lands.
Richard

[db22]

AttLaw -- Of course, you are right, No one ever accused me of being a genius at arithmetic (or anything else, for that matter). Still, I have a darn long chamber in this barrel, and as LaOtto222 noted, even if the Max brass requires trimming, it will allow the use of slower powders. .360 Dan Wesson load info should be available in the big manuals. I found some on several web sites devoted to silhouette shooting. I'll determine what info to use when I see how long a case will freely fit my chamber.

[bluebayou]

I found the old official Dan Wesson info if you want me to forward it to you.  I haven't found any 360 DW info in Speer, Lee, Lyman, Nosler, or Hodgdon manuals. 

I need a Hornady manual if anyone could check to see if 360 Dan Wesson is listed in Hornady and help me out?  That's not really a sentence.........

[OR-E-Gun Bill]

Hornady 6th Edition does not have any info on the .360 DW





Bill

[LaOtto222]

This is a very interesting post since I have sent my Handi in for a .357 barrel. I was wondering about the pressure issue. I found a load in the Contender section of the latest Lyman manual. It shows the Lyman 200 gr. gas check (long, semi pointy round nose) with 14 or so grains of 2400 for 1400 fps out of a 10 inch Contender. Since the Handi frame can handle many of the same cartridges as the Contender, this load should be OK in in the regular .357 Handi barrel right? Is the fps going to be up in the 1700 range with the longer 22 inch barrel of the Handi? If the chamber in the barrel I get is cut long enough for the 360 DW where do I go to get brass and  load info for it? I think it would be good to use the longer brass to make SURE that these rounds never find there way into a regular .357 revolver....

-DRD

I think you are safe with the Contender load data. Just a little warning lead bullets do not generate as much pressure as jacketed bullets, every thing else being equal. In other words pressure for a 200 grain jacketed bullet will be higher that a 200 lead bullet. This is because lead bullets are easier to push down a bore than jacketed bullets. If you are using lead bullet data, back off of it for a jacketed bullet and work your way up. Good luck and let us know how it comes out for you.

[quickdtoo]

Since the Handi frame can handle many of the same cartridges as the Contender, this load should be OK in in the regular .357 Handi barrel right?

ANY load safe for a contender is safe in a post '98 SB2 Handi, the Handi is chambered in many high pressure cartridges that are too much for a contender, such as any of the 30-06 family of cartridges, the 500 S&W, etc.

Tim

[bluebayou]

Hey, Bill, thanks for checking that Hornady manual.

[LaOtto222]

I do not have any 360 DW data in any of my books I do remember Paul 5388 has done quite a bit of loading for the 360 DW. He has a standard chamber and used 360 DW brass for lots of different loads including cast bullet stuff. I can not remember what the load data was other than he favored heavy bullets. The last post he did on this was (I think) that he was unhappy with 360 DW Starline brass and was going to start using 357 MAX brass cut down. If you do a search on him you might find some valuable information. I do know he has done quite a lot of load experimentation with the 357 MAG and 360 DW. Better yet if Paul 5388 would happen to read this and dump some of his knowledge our way would even be better.

[bluebayou]

I found his thread here:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,31030.0.html

There is a link to another forum that has some loads listed.  I am keeping up the search, but don't have any high hopes.  I think that safely working up some loads based on a middle ground between 357 Mag and 357 Max should be okay.

Early in that thread or another....it is getting confusing....someone mentions using Max brass cut down to 360 DW lengths, but that the wall thickens and needs to be turned down.  I don't want any of that action. 

I am going to make some test loads using Paul's history this weekend.  Might be able to go to Hugo and shoot next week.

[db22]

Having laid hands on some .357 Max brass, I found the stock Remington case to be a tad too long to drop freely into my Handi .357 "Mag" chamber. Trimming a little at a time, the case finally dropped in place at a length of 1.440". The only case OAL dimension I could find for .360 DW is 1.415", and for .357 Max, 1.599". That puts my chamber much closer to the DW standard than to the Max.

This weekend I'll trim a small batch of Max cases to 1.440" and try loading them using DW load data. I'll also take a good look at reaming the chamber to accept the full-length Max case. My old hunting buddy loaned me some .35 caliber rifle mold blocks that look pretty interesting. One is an old 250-grain round nose that might be too much bullet, but the other is the Lyman 358627, a 215-grain SWC, for which I found a good bit of load info. There is a lot of info on .357-related topics at http://www.lasc.us/, the LA Silhouette Club's web site.