An H&R that does 4,600 fps!!!

[HonkerHunter]

This is the link to what I was looking at for this small caliber hot rod. I don't recall seeing any pressure readings for this round and as such, I'm gonna have to pass on this one for a possible H&R option.

HH

http://www.superiorballistics.com/

[Mac11700]

No disrespect to Mic..or Smalley...but...there is still no real world pressure testing of this modified 6BR cartridge.( yes there has been testing..see above post..)Theory is a good thing and is very useful in development...proof is another...and testing until the primer pockets become loose..or having a sticky bolt lift is not accepted now-a-days..as a exact way of determining pressures...There is no free ride....cartridge manufactures have known this since they first started pouring powder into brass cases...Some designs are more efficient...others aren't...this is a fact of life...but why is it... for folks who love to theorize...it seems having real world pressure testing is always left out of the equation...? I would like to see some of this testing to see what the real pressures of it is...Perhaps I'll call and ask..

Mac

[Mac11700]

OK...I said I would call...and I did...I spoke directly with Mic McPherson..just a few minutes ago...and he ask me to quote him directly concerning the use of this particular cartridge in the Handi rifle...He said..

                                         

The use this cartridge is totally inappropriate for the Handi rifle

He has done pressure testing with the cartridge..and he is dead set against using in it...He did say..he has another cartridge that may work well for it..one in a 17 caliber that uses a fire formed 17 Mach IV case...and 20.3 grains of H322 behind a 20 grain bullet that gives around 4370 fps..

Mr McPherson took time from his busy schedule to talk a little while with me about this..and was quite adamant about it...and to quote him verbatim.... so...I would head his advise...

Mac

[Fred M]

Hi Mac
That is about my take on it. As I said before these hot rods are not for the Handi. As a matter of fact very few Handi conversions are worth the effort.

The only reason I converted my two Handi's was because I was not happy with
the accuracy of the origional 223's and I could not sell them no how.
Now both of them meet with my accuracy demands with fine cut rifled barrels.

[HonkerHunter]

Thank's for calling and for the information Mac. Now I know for sure this is one to stay away from in the H&R's.

HH

[billy_56081]

  About 5 years ago Mic and his partner were guest speakers at the Varmint Hunters convention in Pierre South Dakota. They were touting their cartridges there but I have yet to see any definitive proof of their claims of velocity, pressure and barrel life. Come on. We all know speed sells and if this were true we'd all be buying.

[Mac11700]

Hi Mac
That is about my take on it. As I said before these hot rods are not for the Handi. As a matter of fact very few Handi conversions are worth the effort.

The only reason I converted my two Handi's was because I was not happy with
the accuracy of the origional 223's and I could not sell them no how.
Now both of them meet with my accuracy demands with fine cut rifled barrels.

Some of the conversions are Fred...some are... I wouldn't trade my 338-06A-Square for nothing..it just keeps doing better by each load I try...and I am sure Quick feels the same about some of his...but...These are some sensible ones as well..on good frames...with better than average under-lugs as well...Having fine cut rifling does make a real difference..some of the cheaper buttoned barrels available for stubbing just wouldn't do for me...I would have to spend just as much on this..as having it re-bored...just as Quick is doing with his 6.5 stubbed...

While certain calibers are excluded for the Handi..with the right under-lug..and right frame..they can be made into a super accurate rifle..Get one that is not so good...then it will give you fits like both of yours have...I'm glad you got them shooting good finally...now it they will just hold for awhile...

HH...Your Welcome...getting facts straight from the source is always better than 2nd or 3rd hand..and is how I like to do things...There is just too much speculation..and conjecture to weed thru for most folks...and why we always insist on giving factual information here for the members...Loading for these neat little rifles is hard enough for standard cartridges....factor in wildcats based from bolt gun data..can make conversions exactly like Fred said...a waste of time...and not only that..but can be very dangerous as well...

They were touting their cartridges there but I have yet to see any definitive proof of their claims of velocity, pressure and barrel life. Come on. We all know speed sells and if this were true we'd all be buying.

I have no doubt they do attain the velocities they state..since these are shot from a 28" varmint barrel...and the pressures are going to be at max for a 308 case head as well...As too barrel life..until they have a bunch of these being field tested and having some other reports..the jury is out on that for now..Different shaped shoulders have been tried before..and they have done a-lot of testing to get as far as they have with them...I do know that having a longer neck will ease throat erosion as compared to a very short neck...like a Gibbs design..so this does stand to reason to me...that it will help such a high pressure bolt gun round..

Mac

[handirifle]

Data should not be too hard to come by for this round, as I understand Savage Arms is making it available in the custom shop.  I know nothing else about it other than this.

[quickdtoo]

I think I'll load up some of the 30gr Calhoon silver bullets in the 22-250, just for fun!!! Berger provides data for their 30gr bullet.

Tim

I got the Quick Load data from Berger, both for the 223 and the 22-250, velocity with max loads for the 223 are right at 4000fps, well over 4500fps for a few powders in the 22-250 in a 24" barrel, I'll have to see what I actually get in real life, I have some of the 30gr Bergers coming now, they have a BC of .193, the 40gr Vmax is just .200!!

I got a note from Walt Berger that the 30gr Berger could come apart in any twist faster than 1:14" in the 22-250!!!

Tim

[DalesCarpentry]

It has got to make you wonder what kind of G'S that bullet is pulling to come apart in flight.

[lostsniper308]

my nosler reloading manual states 4100fps with 40gr bullets in a 22-250, 38grs of Hodgdon Varget. Got some near 4000fps for .243 as well.

[quickdtoo]

my nosler reloading manual states 4100fps with 40gr bullets in a 22-250, 38grs of Hodgdon Varget. Got some near 4000fps for .243 as well.

Hodgdon shows data to 4224fps with IMR3031 and the 40gr NBT in the 22-250, but what we get over a chronograph, not a test barrel or out of a computer program is what counts, and then only if it's accurate.

Tim

[DalesCarpentry]

my nosler reloading manual states 4100fps with 40gr bullets in a 22-250, 38grs of Hodgdon Varget. Got some near 4000fps for .243 as well.

Hodgdon shows data to 4224fps with IMR3031 and the 40gr NBT in the 22-250, but what we get over a chronograph, not a test barrel or out of a computer program is what counts, and then only if it's accurate.

Tim

Tim you are rite. It don't matter how fast that bullet goes if you can't hit what you are aming at.

[lostsniper308]

i don't have a chrono, nor rifles actually, since coming down to Texas i got no guns of my own here.
I think i may get a .243 or .22-250 though, handi of course.