Cartridge selection for black bear.

[Dusty Miller]

It is well known that black bears are quite susceptible to the 44 magnum cartridge.  However, I'm thinking that my 454 Casull launching a 335 gr. bullet at 1200-1400 fps should penetrate completely through at a hundred yards regardless of the angle or the number of bones hit.  Am I all wet here or is this a good way of looking at it?

[Redhawk1]

I don't think 100 yards through both shoulders will be a complete pass through.

[corbanzo]

I think on a black bear with a .454 and a 335 grainer at 1400fps it would be.  Not on a brown bear, but a black bear yes.  Maybe if you hit the thickest part of both shoulder bones on a big bear it might stop it, but that is the only reason I see for the bullet stopping. 

[Redhawk1]

corbanzo, he is talking about 100 yards not a short distance. The velocity is going to be a lot less and regardless of black bear or even a deer, both shoulders is a lot to go through.  My buddy shot a black bear in the shoulder at 30 yards with a 300 gr. had cast bullet from a 44 Mag and we found the bullet in the bone of the second shoulder. Can it go all the way through, sure it can, but odds are it won't.

[Dusty Miller]

Well, so much for THAT theory!!

[Graybeard]

I'm constantly amazed at how many people think less velocity automatically means less penetration. Some times it does and at other times it doesn't. If the bullet is an expaning type then penetration often increases as velocity is reduced. Even with solids and really hard cast it doesn't reduce as much as most think it does. In fact some tests have been conducted that showed at extremely long range bullets penetrated more deeply into sand bags than at closer ranges. Don't assume all you read to be true or that "facts" are as factual as they seem on the surface.

With big bore handgun rounds penetration capability far exceeds the normal shooter's ability to place the bullet properly due to the trajectory dropping so fast.

[Redhawk1]

Graybeard, no need to be amazed, it is a fact.  Yes bullet design has a lot to do with penetration, but you still need velocity to drive that bullet. I am not saying it has to be hyper speed to accomplish it. There is never a science to this, there are just to many variables involved for it to be cut and dry. My experience is on game in the field, not what I read. I take the time to do my own research and not just pull information from my back side.

I have shot many game animals with handguns, a lot up close and some at further distances. I have recovered many bullets and I have had some complete pass thoughts. But to think that if both shoulder are shot through, that you are going to have a bullet exit all the time is just not a good bet.  I shot a black bear at 25 yards with my 500 mag with a 370 gr. hard cast bullet. The bullet on impact of the opposite side shoulder fragmented the bullet, half of the bullet exited and the other half was found in the shoulder bone. Did the bullet have to exit to be effective, no the bear was dead on the spot.

The bottom line here is, pick the right bullet and velocity and most impotent, SHOT PLACEMENT! Also know the anatomy of the animal you are shooting.

[Racer X]

I shot a black bear at 25 yards with my 500 mag with a 370 gr. hard cast bullet. The bullet on impact of the opposite side shoulder fragmented the bullet, half of the bullet exited and the other half was found in the shoulder bone.

What was the muzzle velocity of that load? In a S&W 500, could it have been that at that velocity, the impact stress was too much for the bullet to remain intact? The sectional density of a 370 grain 500 bullet is also less than that of a 335 grain 45 bullet.

[Redhawk1]

The speed at 25 yards was probably close to 1750 fps, because it is a 1800 fps at the muzzle.  Bullets hitting hard bone of the shoulder socket react differently, there is not a set reaction to hitting something hard. Now the same bullet hitting a rib bone more than likely would not be affected the same way. The sectional density of a bullet is not going to alter the results any different.

Exactly how did you come up with "the sectional density of a 370 grain 500 bullet is also less than that of a 335 grain 45 bullet." ? I would like to know your formula for this. Would you not need both bullets in hand to make that determination?

[Graybeard]

No the only thing you need to know to determine SD is bullet weight in grains and diameter in inches or fractions of an inch.

[Racer X]

Exactly how did you come up with "the sectional density of a 370 grain 500 bullet is also less than that of a 335 grain 45 bullet." ? I would like to know your formula for this. Would you not need both bullets in hand to make that determination?

What Graybeard said. You can also use Beartooth's Sectional Density Calculator

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/density.htm