Author Topic: Officer shot by gun kept under pillow (Read 3536 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #30 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:01:06 AM »

The human species is the only species that not only protects the stupid it rewards then thru. lawsuits !

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #31 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:04:27 PM »

AHHHHHH THERE IS ALWAYS A REASON FOR SOMETHING. I HAVE BEEN TROWING GLOCKS AROUND FOR SOME TIME NOW. FIRST TIME WAS AT AN IDPA MATCH IN WHICH SOME ONE CALLED IT TACTICAL TUPPERWARE. HE WAS WEARING IS PRIZE 2000 WILSON COMBAT THAT HE CARRIED AS A CCW. YOU SEE HE WAS MAKING FUN OF MY GUN, AND HOW HIS STEEL GUN WAS STRONGER THAN MINE. SO I SHOWED HIM THAT MY GUN WOULD AND COULD TAKE A LOT MORE DAMAGE DAY TO DAY THAN HIS AND STILL FUNCTION. I THEN PROCEED TO BE HIM VERY BADLY IN THE MATCH. I ONLY PLACED 6TH. HE PLACED AROUND 40TH. I WAS MAKING A POINT TO HIM. NOW WHEN SOME ONE TALKS ABOUT POLYMER VERSUS STEEL I MAKE THE POINT. ONLY THING I EVER HAD HAPPEN IS BROKE A SIGHT OFF THE GUN. YET TO HAVE ONE OF THOSE THERE SPEACIALY BUILT TACTICAL GUNS THAT COST $2000 EVER THROWN TO SEE THERE RELIABILITY. BY THE WAY I HAVE THOSE GUNS AS WELL STI KIMBER COUPLE OF COLTS. I WILL CARRY THE GOOD OLD GLOCK

Dee · « **Reply #32 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:32:40 PM »

Quote from: Prebanpaul on July 05, 2007, 01:04:27 PM

AHHHHHH THERE IS ALWAYS A REASON FOR SOMETHING. I HAVE BEEN TROWING GLOCKS AROUND FOR SOME TIME NOW. FIRST TIME WAS AT AN IDPA MATCH IN WHICH SOME ONE CALLED IT TACTICAL TUPPERWARE. HE WAS WEARING IS PRIZE 2000 WILSON COMBAT THAT HE CARRIED AS A CCW. YOU SEE HE WAS MAKING FUN OF MY GUN, AND HOW HIS STEEL GUN WAS STRONGER THAN MINE. SO I SHOWED HIM THAT MY GUN WOULD AND COULD TAKE A LOT MORE DAMAGE DAY TO DAY THAN HIS AND STILL FUNCTION. I THEN PROCEED TO BE HIM VERY BADLY IN THE MATCH. I ONLY PLACED 6TH. HE PLACED AROUND 40TH. I WAS MAKING A POINT TO HIM. NOW WHEN SOME ONE TALKS ABOUT POLYMER VERSUS STEEL I MAKE THE POINT. ONLY THING I EVER HAD HAPPEN IS BROKE A SIGHT OFF THE GUN. YET TO HAVE ONE OF THOSE THERE SPEACIALY BUILT TACTICAL GUNS THAT COST $2000 EVER THROWN TO SEE THERE RELIABILITY. BY THE WAY I HAVE THOSE GUNS AS WELL STI KIMBER COUPLE OF COLTS. I WILL CARRY THE GOOD OLD GLOCK

Does your REASON for throwing your gun around your shop and your claimed PROWESS with a GLOCK then JUSTIFY calling the policer officer a B****? Is that what your saying? No one was criticizing the Glock you are defending, just someones gun safety, which seems only slightly better than yours. I carried a gun for a living for 20 years, and had to use it on several occasions, and view her (the officer) as making a foolish mistake, and you as a GRANDSTANDER, with a much bigger ego than the common sense you believe you possess.
I believe it is a childish TRICK to THROW a weapon to make a MACHO point. One should THROW rocks, and grenades, and leave the pistol torture testing to the REAL experts.
At a Glock armors class in Dallas, Tx. I once fired a Glock 17 that had fired over 250,000 rounds without having been THROWN even once. The weapon made it's point with out the Circus performer throwing it.

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #33 on:** July 06, 2007, 03:07:32 AM »

DEE THAT IS FUNNY THAT YOU MAKE YOUR POINT. MAN I GOT TO TELL YOU, I THINK IN THE ACTUAL GLOCK TORTURE TEST DIDNT THEY DROP IT FROM LIKE THE EQUIVALENT OF 18 FLOORS TO TEST IT. YOU CRACK ME UP DEE. HERE I AM GOING TO HELP YOU OUT. THE PROBLEM REALLY IS NOT THAT I THROW THE GLOCK. LETS BRAKE DOWN WHAT IS REALLY BOTHERING YOU. IT IS THE FACT THAT I CALLED THE LADY A B****. YOU SEE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LETTING THINGS GO. YOU TOOK IT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK AGAINST POLICE OFFICERS. BOTTOM LINE IS SHE IS A LIAR. SHE PULLED THE TRIGGER AND WAS TO SCARED TO ADMITT THAT SHE DID IT. YOU ARE PROBABLY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. IT IS CARLESSNESS. THAT IS IT.

YOU TRY AND MAKE POINTS ABOUT ME CALLING HER A B****. THEN YOU TRY AND MAKE A POINT ABOUT THROWING ROCKS AND GRENADES. THEN YOU TRY AND CALL ME A CIRCUS CLOWN. ALL I CAN SAY IS QUIT TROWING YOUR ROCKS AND GRENADES IN A GLASS HOUSE. IF YOUR GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT ME CALLING HER A NAME (WHICH IS CHILDISH AND OFF THE TOPIC TO BEGIN WITH) YOU PROBABLY SHOULD NOT CALL THAT PERSON A NAME. IT DEFEATS YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT. BY THE WAY IT WAS NOT AN ATTACK ON POLICE JUST HER FOR BEING DUMB.

JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY DID YOU EVER WHEN PRACTICING DROP YOUR FIREARM.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #34 on:** July 06, 2007, 03:05:05 PM »

Dee , you make more sense and show more respect IMHO !
and don't sleep with gun under pillow people , not smart !
as far as accidental discharges go had one , gun broke and went auto , it was a colt 1911 , first shot was intentional next were not ! yes trigger was released after first shot and not pulled !

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #35 on:** July 06, 2007, 04:56:58 PM »

THAT IS NOT AN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE OR IN MY WORDS SOMEONE BEING STUPID. THAT IS A GUN MECHANICALLY MALFUNCTIONING. OR BROKEN.

dukkillr · « **Reply #36 on:** July 06, 2007, 06:11:42 PM »

I suspect everyone would prefer if you didn't type in all capitals.

Dee · « **Reply #37 on:** July 07, 2007, 02:48:21 AM »

I believe typing in all capital letters in this case signifies YELLING. Name callin is usually brought on by someone trying to convince others, that they are intelligent and knowledgeable about what they are commenting on. It accomplishes nothing, and points to being judgemental about a person and situation that they actually know nothing about. They do not GIVE the benefit of doubt to someone else but, certainly WANT IT if it is their turn in the barrel.
Over the twenty years I spent as a range instructer and SWAT team leader-trainer I met many gun store gunfighters, and they all have one thing in common.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #38 on:** July 08, 2007, 03:40:54 AM »

Dee , it is a lack of respect , they do not respect those they communicate with enough to listen to what they have to say ! they only want to tell !
you live in the great state of TEXAS I in the great commonwealth of VIRGINIA I listen to what you say and sometimes we see the same thing here other times no ! I am sure the reverse is true !I do not feel you fabricate nor do I , we just face different situations sometimes ! DEMOGRAPHICS I think is the word !
The bottom line here , the officer was negligent , that does not give anyone the right to curse her ! she paid the price , no one else was hurt ! stupid yes , the B word bad taste !
the intelligent among us will learn from her mistake the less intelligent well they may need to repeat history !
Then again it doesn't take a veterinarian to know what a horse's a-- looks like either !
use all the capital letters ya want as far as I'm concerned , cause I don't read any louder !

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #39 on:** July 08, 2007, 09:35:19 AM »

i cant believe all the people complaining about all caps. that is the funniest thing there is. I have to tell you that I am very, very good with numbers as that is what i do for a living. However i am not and never have claimed to be grammatically correct. But someone made this comment (I believe typing in all capital letters in this case signifies YELLING. Name callin is usually brought on by someone trying to convince others, that they are intelligent and knowledgeable about what they are commenting on. It accomplishes nothing, and points to being judgemental about a person and situation that they actually know nothing about.) hmmmmmmmm I think I read the same article that you did so I think that I have the same knowledge as you. And if i am going to complain about grammatics i.e. typing in all caps i probably would not miss spell. i.e. the word callin and the word judgemental. Might show your not as smart as you really thank you are. And you go on and on about calling her a name. Again lets get to the real problem and i would probably agree with you on it. Again its not that i called her a name. It is the simple fact that i used a cuss word even know i put the Astrix in there myself. i believe you have referred to me as being unknowledgeable and a circus monkey. other people have called her an idiot. I think you need to sit back sometimes and ask your self what the real problem is. Here let me ask the question direct, Are you upset that i have called her a name or the fact that i used a cuss word? cause if you came out and said hey i was offended that you cussed i would probably said i am sorry. but you did not and that is what is really bothering you. you have called me names and other people have referred to her as an idiot. So the real problem is that your mad that I cussed. And the fact that i did about a police officer. listen this was not a personal attack against cops my parents for worked for the local police dept for the past 45 yrs combined . My grandfather retired officer worked for 30yrs. it is the simpel fact that i cussed and you took it to be a personal attack against cops.

one question for you again since you failed to answer it last time, have you ever in practice dropping your firearm to practice with your back up. I mean you made it very clear that you would never throw a gun and you also made it very clear that you were an instructor for the local swat team. So in training how many times did you drop your personal firearm. Just wondering with all the training you have done how many times your gun hit the ground from that. ohhh and one last thing have you ever had a stupid moment and pulled the trigger when you should not have.

again i institute for the person that will try and attach my grammatical skills i dont have them.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #40 on:** July 09, 2007, 01:51:16 AM »

for whats its worth , she did a stupid thing , but she is not a female dog , its a human thing not a cop thing !

Dee · « **Reply #41 on:** July 09, 2007, 12:22:03 PM »

prebanpaul, I believe you need to go back and re-read my posts. There was no mention of a monkey, or clown. I never thought of it. My posts refered to the lack of respect, involved in ANYONE calling ANYONE, "ANY NAME" when it is not necessary. I disagree with you on the possibility of bedding NOT possibly being the culprit in the accidental discharge. Being intimately familiar with the Glock and haveing fired thousands (yes thouands) of rounds thru several models and caliber of the Glock (cumlatively), I personally feel it could have happened and said so. I do not NEED to BELITTLE someone whom obviously used bad judgement in taking the weapon to bed with her. I do not know her, (as neither do you). That she made a mistake is obvious. The cause of the discharge was the topic. Not the woman's character.
And to answer your question as to whether we dropped our weapons in training, to go to a backup. The answer is no. We did not abuse weapons in such a way, for training purposes. There are other ways of training for such instances. In real time such an incident might initiate a different response to the primary weapon's handling.

The answer to you accidental discharge, I have in many training programs fired as much as 1,000 rounds (a few times more) in one day. Several thousand rounds in a week or two week program. I have seen MANY accidental discharges, but ALL occured with safety guidelines being enforced, and followed and resulted in no injury or damage to equipment.

I am not happy to see ANYONE called a name. To me, it not only shows a lack of respect to that person, but an attempt by the name caller to elevate the name caller to a higher level of intelligence, they may or may not deserve. It is a simple matter of manners and respect, especially to women, whether they deserve it or not. This is my last word on this matter. I have nothing else to say about it.

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #42 on:** July 09, 2007, 02:15:14 PM »

DEE

I BELIEVE YOUR RIGHT YOU DID NOT CALL ME A CIRCUS CLOWN BUT A CIRCUS PERFORMER. I AM CURIOUS HOW YOU TAUGHT YOUR OFFICERS TO LOCATE AND DISPOSE OF THERE WEAPON IN A TACTICAL SITUATION IF YOU DID NOT TEACH THEM TO DROP IT. SEEMS TO ME IN THE 50'S SOME TIME THEY FOUND SOME DEAD STATE HIGHWAY PATROL OFFICERS BECAUSE THEY WERE TAUGHT TO RELOAD AT THE RANGE AND PUT THE BRASS SHELLS IN THERE POCKETS. THAT IS WHAT THE STATE HIGHWAY PATROL TAUGHT. THEY LATER REVAMPED THAT THOUGHT AFTER THEY REALIZED HOW LONG IT TOOK TO DO THAT AND THAT PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY ARE TAUGHT. THEY THEN LEARNED TO DUMP THERE ROUNDS ON THE GROUND. JUST CURIOUS HOW LONG IT NOW TAKES ONE OF YOUR OFFICERS TO GET TO THERE BACK UP AND HOW MUCH TIME THEY WASTED. THEY DIED FROM THERE TRAINGING.

BY THE WAY I HAVE OWNED OR HELP OPERATE A GUN STORE WITH AN INDOOR RANGE FOR APPROXIMATELY 10 YRS NOW. I HAVE TAUGHT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TO SHOOT. I SHOOT IN BETWEEN 750-2000 ROUNDS THRU VARIOUS GUNS A WEEK. I WILL GIVE YOU THE BIGGEST TIP THAT I CAN. THIS WILL HELP WITH YOUR STATEMENT THAT IS IN PARENTHESES. (I have seen MANY accidental discharges, but ALL occured with safety guidelines being enforced, and followed and resulted in no injury or damage to equipment. ) MY NUMBER ONE RULE DONT PUT YOUR FINGER IN THE TRIGGER GUARD UNLESS YOUR GONNA SHOOT. MAYBE IF YOU HAD THAT RULE YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SO MANY ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGES- OR PEOPLE BEING CARELESS. I HAVE HAD TWO PEOPLE IN MY CLASSES BEING CARELESS AND KICKED THEM BOTH OUT.

dukkillr · « **Reply #43 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:10:35 PM »

Please stop with the capitals.

Dee · « **Reply #44 on:** July 10, 2007, 02:29:00 AM »

prebanpaul, I am sure that you have gleaned much experience in those dangerous situations at the indoor range. I should have ended this with my first post as you believe that you have all the answers. As I have said eariler, I have met MANY "gunstore gunfighters" and they "all" share one thing in common. They "All" always have "all" the answers. You sir, are no different, and just as persistant. I will not involve myself in a peeing contest with someone such as yourself. My original post was in reference to your rudeness involving a fellow human being, and my opinion of you rudeness has not changed. You now have the floor to yourself on this matter.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** July 10, 2007, 02:34:10 AM »

For general information , the USA is one of the few countries that drop weapons and magazines ! the german military teaches its men to retain mags , (they can't afford the cost of lost ones or as during WW1 did not have raw materials to make extra ! . as far as being trained , in 2 different classes we were taught to retain control of our primary gun ! IDPA , where the non police officer gets to test his skills require one to retain mags , if the weapons are carried so one is aval. to each hand as should be the case , then while drawing the back-up it should be quite easy to either re holster or stick #1 gun in a pocket . Also IDPA and all other matches i have attended if you dropped a gun you were asked to leave , PERIOD !
Correct response to an armed threat is not if at all possible to stand in the street and fire away like the cowboy shows , but to seek cover and engage from such ! Thus making retaining a weapon more feasible . Not being a police officer and knowing help most likely won't arrive "in the nick of time " I would not wish to leave a weapon avaliable to those seeking to hurt me ! The city i live near and work in is having a good year this year ! the murder rate is down , haven't reached 100 yet ! most years by this time we have ! add the gang influnce and it is easy see that the lone person is at quite a disadvantage ! to abandon a gun may only add to those shooting at you since they may have ammo to fit your gun !

Dee · « **Reply #46 on:** July 10, 2007, 03:20:49 AM »

All good points SHOOTALL. One must learn the difference in CONCEALMENT, and COVER. One will not stop a bullet, the other HOPEFULLY will. The gun range mentallity is to stand there and shoot it out. This works great when your opponent is paper, and much philosophy can be produced on FICTIONAL INCIDENCES. However, FBI stats for years have shown (yes even with the popular high capacity mags) that the winner of the fight with be decided in in under 10 rounds (this is the cumulative total of both combatants rounds fired) and the distance will usually be under 10 feet, of the opponents. Not conducive to a gun change, in the middle of a blazeing gun battle, huh?
What I DID teach officers was, that if a fight ensued after the initial 3 or 4 rounds being fired, then an effort to obtain cover should be made, as the present tactic was NOT WORKING.
This along with WEAPON RETENTION, properly conicides with you IDPA classes. I have seen many that have gleaned the attitude and tactic of the silver screen to their own IDEA of how to fight such a fight, but dismiss it as TOMBSTONE COURAGE brought on by fantasy.
I have looked at police reports where fights were ended with several rounds (3 or 4), and some that were ended with one. Although I have been out of law enforcement for 13 years now, I have NEVER seen a high capacity magazine be the cause of a win. The REAL fights just don't last that long, before a winner is declared, by either surrender, or the deciding factor of one of the combatants being hit.
But, then again we are off topic, again.

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #47 on:** July 10, 2007, 03:13:14 PM »

Dee

You make me laugh. The gun range mentality of mine is not to sit there and get in a battle. Also there is no question in my mind that I could go up against 98% percent of the law enforcement officers that you teach and beat them in a tactical shoot off. I practice with alot of swat team officers in the area and consistently go thru different drills to sharpen my skills. I practice way more than most police officers and have been in as many shoot outs as most officers, None. Want to talk about mentalities. Lets talk about the cops that you speak off. Most carry there weapon and fire the minimum of 150 -200 rounds to qualify once a year and never shoot again. There are about 5% of cops that actually go out and shoot. But as you put it that is your ignorance for not asking that question. You assumed that my instructual classes teach the stand and shoot philosophy .The only defense that I teach with a firearm is to get out of dodge or to your carbine. The pistols or handgun however you want to refer to it is only used to put distance in between you and the aggressor. I don't know where you got your FBI information. Just went to there web site and the average shooting consit of 6-7 rounds at a distance of 21 feet.

Shoot All thanks for your good points. The U.S .with out an argument has one of the best militarizes in the world. Hmmmm they teach drop your weapon. Dee exactly how many shoot outs have you actually been in. And I mean you direct where you were fired upon and returned fire. Not your city, not anyone else, you direct.

Last points i will make the only reason to drop your weapon is that it does not work. Cause if it works keep using it. ohhh and Dee I do agree with you on the high capacity magazine thing. But I got to tell you if I am not carrying my Glock 36, I will have a high capacity magazines for the same reason everyone on your dept does just in case.

Dee · « **Reply #48 on:** July 10, 2007, 04:03:31 PM »

I have not assumed anything, just observed. You continue to be rude for no good reason, and read into posts things that are not there. By the way, I have been retired for 13 years, and the answer to your other question is two, with one involving two opponents. The winner should be obvious to even you.

rockbilly · « **Reply #49 on:** July 10, 2007, 06:35:52 PM »

Dee. Congratulations on handling the situation like a gentleman, or should I say a street wise COP? Your background and experience are clearly displayed in the way you handled your post. Great job!

We should just let this one die now, it is oblivious that there is far too much wannabe experience contributing worthless information than I am capable of digesting............nite all!

Savage · « **Reply #50 on:** July 11, 2007, 01:13:22 AM »

We should just let this one die now, it is oblivious that there is far too much wannabe experience contributing worthless information than I am capable of digesting............nite all!

Thank you, Rock! And may I add amen,-------amen.

Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #51 on:** July 11, 2007, 02:30:22 AM »

Yes , owning a car dealership does not make one a formula one driver !
Good post DEE !

gypsyman · « **Reply #52 on:** July 12, 2007, 04:39:40 PM »

Well, here is a couple things about this incident that I would like to know. In the article, it stated her age and name. Didn't say how long she had been on the force. Was she hired because of her sex or race? Sorry about my thought process, but there is a whole lot of political correctness that puts people in positions where they shouldn't be. Either not strong enough, smart enough, willing to do the job, especially when it gets tough. Wouldn't want to put a child molester to work in a day care, don't want to put a gun in the hands of somebody thats irresponsible. gypsyman

Old Griz · « **Reply #53 on:** July 12, 2007, 05:57:12 PM »

Good point gypsyman. In our corrupt little city, the niece of our former police chief made the force even though she shouldn't have. Her firearms skills were a joke. You only have to score a 70 to qualify, and she didn't make it with a handgun, and her shotgun qualification had folks ducking for cover. She shot out a ceiling light, and then when they finally got her to not turn her head when she fired, she shot the floor. Somehow, she passed, but no one would want her backing them up with a loaded weapon. I hope she got a desk job, but I didn't hear anything else about her.

Prebanpaul, no offense, all caps are just hard to read. That's why were have upper and lower case letters.

spo · « **Reply #54 on:** July 12, 2007, 06:12:43 PM »

Quote from: corbanzo on June 13, 2007, 06:48:47 AM

And if you keep a cocked gun under your pillow, you are an idiot. I have a bullet in the chamber of mine, but the hammer is always down.

me too always worried about a self inflicted shot, and how that would look to the ME standing over me

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #55 on:** July 13, 2007, 03:37:51 AM »

when did the US start drooping weapons ?
I guess what scares me the most , that there might be some idiot in the next hotel room or house !

rockbilly · « **Reply #56 on:** July 13, 2007, 04:21:30 AM »

In my younger days I was involved in martial arts, and worked out almost every night, at the same time I had a beautiful young bride at home. Working out I often had sore muscles, and the young bride, well, e'er, well anyway, I kept a tube of "Ben Gay", and a tube of KY Jelly on the bedside table, one nite in my haste I grabbed the wrong tube and applied it to an area that wasn't intended to have "Ben Gay" applied to it. I jumped out of bed and took off, my new bride in chase. She finally overtook me in her car about 40 miles down the road, drove me home and guided me to a nice cold shower.

What's the point you ask! Well, let me tell you, from that point on, I never pit anything that could hurt ME near the area where I was bedded down. After all, you never know what you may grab when half asleep, or in a hurry.

Dee · « **Reply #57 on:** July 13, 2007, 04:36:17 AM »

rockbilly, that was way more infor about your personal life than I wanted to know. LOL

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #58 on:** July 13, 2007, 04:37:22 AM »

Rockabilly , that was good , ya cracked me up !

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #59 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:24:43 AM »

Quote from: Savage on June 13, 2007, 05:16:06 AM

Me thinks we're not getting the complete story here----------------! Can't help but think that the pistol might have had a little assistance going off.

People do crazy things when they sleep...I've heard of people sleep walking...So much so that they end up outside and don't know how they got there...I will never place a gun under my pillow...That's a little too close to my and my wife's head...