Author Topic: Factory loads for 8mm Mauser (Read 5225 times)

Dixie Dude · « **on:** June 18, 2007, 06:53:56 AM »

What are good factory loads for 8mm Mauser for deer, bear, elk, moose, hog?
Also, what would you consider maximum range for these loads?

benchracer · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2007, 07:01:01 AM »

Best performance that I have seen from an 8x57 factory load has consistently been the Hornady Custom 195 gr spire point loading. Another worth checking out is the Sellier & Belloit 196 gr load. As for maximum range, the Hornady load should be good to 300 yds, no problem (assuming decent shooter skill and a proper zero). I haven't shot at that distance with the S&B load so I don't really know what the max range on that is.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2007, 09:29:27 AM »

I'm assuming this 195 and 196 grain is good for all the above game except maybe Alaska brown bear? One creature I failed to mention was caribou. I just like the Mauser action, and I like the 8mm. How about caribou? and can a heavier load be purchased for brown bear?

TribReady · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2007, 01:01:48 PM »

Avoid the US manufacturers--they are underpowered (equivalent to .30-30 or so)
The S&B packs a punch and is great out to 300 easy. In 2 of my 8mm's (one sporting and one military surplus) that I've tried S&B, the loads shoot moa. Norma makes the best commercial loads, however the cost keeps me from really exploring that option

However, I hunt deer in WI. I won't hesitate taking my S&B loads out west for elk and mulies....or caribou
Handloading obviously opens up any N.American game.

BigJakeJ1s · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2007, 04:51:16 PM »

I've shot the above mentioned Hornady ammo with very good results (<3/4" @100yds), but the S&B 196 gr ammo failed to group under 2" from the same gun (mauser 98k). Nosler Custom has a lineup of three bullets available in loaded ammo (180bt, 200ab, 200pt) that is available from their website or from Midway. Haven't tried those yet. Finally, you may want to try Conley Precision Cartridge Co. (http://www.cpcartridge.com/index.htm) since they have a variety of different loadings available.

Andy

S.S. · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2007, 07:30:54 AM »

In a factory load I will choose the S&B brand.
Hornady is too expensive to get in sufficient practice without
killing your wallet. Norma ,in my experience, is not accurate.
Winchester, Federal and Remington are loaded down
so far as to almost be an insult to a great cartridge. Lame, Lame , Lame.
Custom ammo is also too expensive for most to be able to get in sufficient practice.
Although I like the looks of some of the heavy 8MMs on the above link.
(You can do a LOT with the 8mm by reloading though)

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2007, 12:56:04 AM »

In all but one of my 8mm Mausers the S&B 196 gn cutted edge soft point shoots better than moa. Unfortunately, that one Mauser happens to be the nicest sporter I have. But, handloads with either the 195 gn Hornaday or the 200 gn Nosler, over book charges of Vihta Vuori Oy powder are incredibly accurate and more than adequate for any North American game.

S.S and TribReady are absolutely correct. Mikey.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2007, 07:47:10 AM »

I see Lee loaders for 7x57 and 8x57's for sale on Ebay quite often. For $100 bucks you could get into reloading for a single cartridge. I don't know how many boxes of new ammo that equals but I'm sure it equals a lot more shooting.

1. Lee Loader $20.00
2. Auto Prime $15.00
3. 1# powder $25.00
4. 100 primers $$2.00
5. 100 bullets $20.00
6. cases $0 range pick ups or saved

Building better ammo-- priceless (I just had to add that-- the devil made me do it)

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2007, 07:59:00 AM »

Can you reload the 8mm for bear or moose? What load packs the most punch? Any reloaders here?

Brithunter · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2007, 10:42:54 PM »

Quote

Can you reload the 8mm for bear or moose? What load packs the most punch? Any reloaders here?

The load which produces the highest power, safely I might add, may not be the best for accuracy or even fairly accurate and as we all know all the power in the world won't help you hunting if it misses the beast. Handloads which work in my sporting mauser may not be suitable for your rifle as I have no way of knowing about it's bore tightness, free bore or even general condiiton. May I suggest that you look up loading data in several manuals and then work from there.

Blammer · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2007, 09:37:53 AM »

8x57 wolf gold is pretty stout load.

If you are going to relaod you can take full advantage of the 8x57.

I recommend Nosler Partitions, at 200 gr with IMR 4350. I have an accurate load at 2500 fps (I think that is what I chronied it at....) with this combo. I took it to TX to hunt hogs but the hogs didn't cooperate...

This would be good for Elk, Carabou, Moose, deer, etc... (I have never hunted any of those, but would not hesitate with the above combo)

454Puma · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2009, 05:24:40 PM »

Dixie Dude
You can reload the 8x57 mm to take any thing you can shoot with '06! So basically anything in NA!

Sweetwater · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2009, 06:10:13 PM »

Al Miller wrote a dandy article on the 8x57 in RIFLE magazine a couple months ago.

It's a good read, well written and extensively researched.

Probably answer a bunch of questions for you.

I can't help as I haven't fired a factory round in my 8x57 in too many years. Handloaded properly, it can do about anything you ask of it, IF you are properly prepared.

Regards,
Sweetwater

kombi1976 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2009, 05:31:49 AM »

If you want to load something seriously nuts for the 8x57JS try these Woodleigh 250gr RNSNs.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=740593

They aren't cheap but loaded and placed right they'll take down almost anything in Nth America.
They're controlled expansion and premium bullets.
They'd certainly put the hurt on a moose if not a brown bear.

Mikey · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2009, 02:16:26 AM »

For any of the game you mentioned, bear, moose, or elk, caribou, hog, the Sellier and Bellot 196 grain cutted edge soft point is my first choice. Next in line would be the PRVI 196 gn soft point.

The 8mm is more than capable of taking any of the game you have mentioned. JMTCW.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:03:20 AM »

The Prvi stuff is ok but I was looking at the figures and their 196gr SP only does 2411fps....slower than the Norma at 2526fps and the Sellier and Bellot at 2592fps.
RWS make the hottest load in this class with a 197gr SP doing 2624 fps.
Mind you the Federal PowerShok and Remington Expresss are the really embarassing stuff......a 170gr SP at 2360 fps.
Express.....yeah, right!

454Puma · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2009, 11:15:12 AM »

kombi1976
The Privi 196 gr at 2400 is very close to '06 200 gr loadings! And 100-200 fps difference isn't going to be noticed by the animals!! I run my 180gr Nosler BT's at 2454 fps, 185 gr Rems at 2350! And have no worries on how they will prefom out to 200-250 yards!

kombi1976 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2009, 02:22:40 AM »

Well, yeah, for 200gr they're more or less on par.
Not bad for a round that generally operates on a little less pressure and powder and is only 15 thou bigger in diameter.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:33:05 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on June 27, 2007, 07:59:00 AM

Can you reload the 8mm for bear or moose? What load packs the most punch? Any reloaders here?

As a long time 8x57 shooter and reloader, i load 200NP's in mine and they are more than adequate for everything in NA EXCEPT (in my opinion) the big bears. This is where i seperate the 8mm mauser from the 30-06...

I've done a lot of brown bear hunting, and on big game i've seen the 30-06 loaded with 200NP's out penetrate the 8mm Mauser with 200NP's over and over. I believe a good expanding bullet that drives DEEP, is VERY important on big bears and the 06 outshines the Mauser in this department.

As for moose, the 8mm works just fine for them, and i've shot everything from moose, blk. bear on down with my 8x57... It's a great cartridge...

The first big game animal i shot with my 8x57 loaded with 200NPs, was back in the early 80's, and it was a moose...

And here's a buck i shot last fall with the same gun and load...

I've taken one hell of a lot of big game with that gun/load inbetween those two!

DM

454Puma · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:02:55 AM »

Well I got curious and took a gander at Barnes Bullets and they make a 180 gr TXS for the 8 mm that I'm sure would penertrate extremely well since you could push it faster then a 200gr. I've shot these in my '06 in the 165 gr variety . These are known to penertrate on big heavy game. So this would definately put the old 8x57mm in the Big bear catagory with 2800 ft lbs energy at the muzzle the same as a 200 gr bullet out of an '06.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:04:07 AM »

The fact that it has the same energy as the 06 means nothing to me... I'd have to see the "wound channel" and also how deep the bullet penetrates before i'd decide...

I'm not saying they aren't good enough, but i AM saying, i've tested enough bullets on "big" animals to know that what looks good on paper, doesn't always work in the field...

DM

kombi1976 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:21:18 AM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on May 04, 2009, 03:33:05 AM

As a long time 8x57 shooter and reloader, i load 200NP's in mine and they are more than adequate for everything in NA EXCEPT (in my opinion) the big bears. This is where i seperate the 8mm mauser from the 30-06...

I've done a lot of brown bear hunting, and on big game i've seen the 30-06 loaded with 200NP's out penetrate the 8mm Mauser with 200NP's over and over. I believe a good expanding bullet that drives DEEP, is VERY important on big bears and the 06 outshines the Mauser in this department. DM

Fair call.
That said, you are using a 8x57JRS, right?
That has a lower max pressure and therefore slightly diminished ballistics and this could be a factor in the penetration the '06 apparently has.
If not would something like a Woodleigh 220gr Protected Point (mag tip), a bonded core bullet with a good ballistic coefficient, give the 8x57 the extra ground that the '06 has with a 200gr?

v-man · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:43:29 AM »

I was reckless 30+ years ago when my first reloading experience was for a 1917 Mod98. I foolishly went way past the manuals and pushed 150gr Speers to 3000+fps trusting that the manuals were "shy" in deference to the weaker mod 88's. I got away with it but 4 or 5 years ago, after severe headspace issues and frequent split cases, I replaced my worn out '98 with a newer WWII '98. My age, common sense, or wisdom (doubtful) kicked in and I backed way, way off my loads. I'm probably missing out on the full capability of the 8x57 but I don't want a Mauser bolt imbedded in the middle of my face. 8MM is truly a great round and I took my first 2 deer with that old rifle.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:31:55 PM »

Quote from: kombi1976 on May 05, 2009, 05:21:18 AM

Quote from: Drilling Man on May 04, 2009, 03:33:05 AM
As a long time 8x57 shooter and reloader, i load 200NP's in mine and they are more than adequate for everything in NA EXCEPT (in my opinion) the big bears. This is where i seperate the 8mm mauser from the 30-06...

I've done a lot of brown bear hunting, and on big game i've seen the 30-06 loaded with 200NP's out penetrate the 8mm Mauser with 200NP's over and over. I believe a good expanding bullet that drives DEEP, is VERY important on big bears and the 06 outshines the Mauser in this department. DM
Fair call.
That said, you are using a 8x57JRS, right?
That has a lower max pressure and therefore slightly diminished ballistics and this could be a factor in the penetration the '06 apparently has.
If not would something like a Woodleigh 220gr Protected Point (mag tip), a bonded core bullet with a good ballistic coefficient, give the 8x57 the extra ground that the '06 has with a 200gr?

Yes it's a JRS, and i'm loading the 200NP's to 2,550... I'd say that's a pretty decent velocity...

The problem with loading a heavier bullet in the 8mm or even the 06 for that matter, is "case capacity"... Both need more to get a decent velocity with any heavier bullets... And from what i've seen in both cases, the 200NP's are constructed just fine, they just need more velocity to drive deeper on the toughest animals...

DM

454Puma · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2009, 07:09:16 AM »

Drilling Man
I agree with what you say, but I'll add this if it's penertration you have a problem with I'd say you would just have to get closer, IE limit the range at which you'd use the 8mm on the Big Bears. I know I'd want to be 175yards or less to ensure max power at the shot and a 180 gr Barnes TSX at that range would be caring well over a ton of enregy and would open up very well. I'll admit I'm new to the 8x57 but from what I've seen so far it performs just as well as the '06 though at shorter distances.

Now less we forget that the old '06 did take the Big Bears and plenty of other large African game with bullets that by todays standards were well below par.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #25 on:** July 16, 2009, 12:50:41 PM »

Quote from: 454Puma on July 16, 2009, 07:09:16 AM

Drilling Man
I agree with what you say, but I'll add this if it's penertration you have a problem with I'd say you would just have to get closer, IE limit the range at which you'd use the 8mm on the Big Bears. I know I'd want to be 175yards or less to ensure max power at the shot and a 180 gr Barnes TSX at that range would be caring well over a ton of enregy and would open up very well. I'll admit I'm new to the 8x57 but from what I've seen so far it performs just as well as the '06 though at shorter distances. Now less we forget that the old '06 did take the Big Bears and plenty of other large African game with bullets that by todays standards were well below par.

First off, "i" nor no one with me, EVER shot a big bear past 100 yards, in fact i prefer 50 yard shots or less! There was NO 175 yard shots at big bears, UNLESS it was wounded.

Secondly, i prefer a bullet to expand fast, then drive deep, and i've not seen any bullet do that better than a NP! A 30-06 with 200NP's outperforms a 8x57 with 200NP's, at least that's what i've experienced on big game.

DM

Sweetwater · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2009, 07:03:22 PM »

On penetration, in my experience, higher sectional density "normally" yields deeper penetration, all else being equal. Sectional density equals the bullet weight in pounds divided by the square of the bullet diameter in inches. In keeping with that, a 200gr bullet in 30cal would have a higher sectional density than a 200gr bullet in a larger caliber ie 8mm, 338, 35cal, etc.

SD=(200gr/7000gr per pound)/(.308x.308)=.301 for the 30cal

SD=(200gr/7000gr per pound)/(.323x.323)=.274 for the 8mm

SD=(220gr/7000gr per pound)/(.323x.323)=.301 for the 8mm

SD=(180gr/7000gr per pound)/(.308x.308)=.271 for the 30cal

Jack the 8mm up to 220gr and you are back to SD=.301 for the 8mm. Arriving with equal velocity, the 200gr 30cal and the 220gr 8mm will penetrate equally given equal construction. Change the construction and/or change the terminal velocity and you will change the penetration qualities.

The 200gr 8mm Nosler Partition will out-penetrate the 180gr 30cal Nosler Partition - I have seen this on Elk shot lengthwise.
I'll take my 8x57 Carbine over my Dad's 30-06 everytime; though the 30-06 is enough. My confidence is in my 8x57. And No, I've never taken a big bear, just big elk...

Regards,
Sweetwater

Drilling Man · « **Reply #27 on:** July 17, 2009, 02:40:37 AM »

Quote

On penetration, in my experience, higher sectional density "normally" yields deeper penetration, all else being equal.

I agree...

As i've said before, the problem is, both the 30-06 and the 8x57 are limited my their case capacity to 200 grain bullets max. They just loose too much velocity when you go heavier than 200. More velocity would make their NP's drive deeper, but you can't get more in a case their size.

In a deer sized animal it doesn't matter, but when your talking DG is does!

DM

kombi1976 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 17, 2009, 06:19:05 AM »

DM, if 200gr+ bullets are inappropriate for dangerous game and are only useful on deer sized game in a 8x57 or 30-06 what possible use are 8mm pills like the Sierra Gameking 220gr HPBT or Woodleigh Weldcore 250gr RNSN?
Are there animals you think are right for this bullet when used with a 8x57?
Or do you think they should only be used with a 8mm Rem Mag, 325 WSM or 8x68?
Keep in mind - Woodleigh designed the 250gr RNSN to be able to be driven at a 2250fps MV by 8x57 and their current brochure says this is an ideal load for plains game apart from kudu and eland.
They also designed a 200gr and 220gr Protected Point bullets (like Mag Tips) specifically for the 325 WSM.
So, what exactly do you define as deer sized? White tail and mule deer only? Or elk and caribou? Perhaps moose as well?
I'm not being argumentative, just seeking clarification.
For the record, if I was going to Africa and hunting plains game with a 8x57 it probably would not be with a 250gr RNSN, despite it's quite considerable sectional density and ballistic coefficient.
A Woodleigh 196gr RNSN would probably yeild a better longer range hunting load in Africa, although for close quarters mountain hunting of the big sambar deer
here in Oz the 250gr is perfect.
For Africa, however, I'd probably take my Tikka 9.3x62 instead and load it with Norma 232gr Vulcans for plains game.
But I digress.....

Drilling Man · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2009, 10:03:03 AM »

My last two post pretty much answers the bulk of your first paragraph...

You know, i've stated the answers to all of these questions in my above post, and previous post about the 8x57... We are now just going in circles... lol I'm not going to wake up "tomorrow" with all new experiences, so we can go on with this forever, but i'd have to lie about what "i" did, and what "i" saw myself, to give you any different answers. AND, i'm not going back into the Alaskan bush for 25 more years to double check my answers...

I've stated what MY experience has been with both cartridges, and why i prefer the bullets i use... Why don't you disbelievers go bang a few moose with each, then go bang a few brown bears with each, and see if you have the same experience...

Lastly, i like to see my brown bears go down and STAY down, NOT heart/lung shoot them, and then have to go look for them!

Keep in mind, that i now use an 8x57 for 99% of all my big game hunting, so why would i lie?

DM