Author Topic: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30  (Read 11779 times)

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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2007, 07:25:36 PM »
Just go with the 30-30, it has probably taken more deer than anything else in the free world.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline 357magrifleman

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2007, 03:38:03 AM »
I agree with others that if you can afford it, buy both or buy the one you want to inherit when your daughter starts to loose interest.  That is what I did with my wife.   Kids are tough so you probably don't have too worry about the recoil from either of these rifles.

Offline Nightstalker6117

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2007, 04:19:54 AM »
Flip a coin ... take her out let her hold each gun see which one feels more comfortable. Granted the scope may be an issue as stated before. I am not going to join the wagon and say one is better than the other i have heard of deer being lost and taken CLEANLY with both calibers. My thought take her and get her the gun that is going to give her the chance of a lifetime. I went through this myself on trying to choose a rifle for myself and something that my wife could shoot once i get her use to some recoil. SLOWLY BUT SURELY!!!!  I went with a 25-06 and never looked back. This would probably be a little on the rough side for an 11 year old. My thoughts were that I don't reload even though I would like to get into it but for now (then) I had heard how the 25-06 was one of the most accurate without having to do a ton of mods. Just get one because what I have gathered from reading all these post is either one will work just as long as she gets enough practice with the gun. Good luck and happy hunting . You might want to hurry so she can practice the season is coming up   :D
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Offline aulrich

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2007, 05:15:18 AM »
One of the sweetest kids guns I have seen was the Ruger 77 compact, the one I looked at was in 260, two down sides, price of course, and a really short barrel 16.5" the velocity loss is not my biggest concern but it will sure have a loud bark. Mine finds handis a bit heavy in the left hand and he has trouble cocking the hammer but not due to hunt till next year, so I have to fight back the urge to get a gun now he might hit a growth spurt and put on 6" in a year.

I tried 243 a few years ago I did not like it but then I did not try a good bullet like  a tsx or partition. I'll probably go 30-30 since the 7-08 youth models never seem to make it up here.
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2007, 03:40:10 PM »
.....then they are morons in my opinion...

Mac

Mac,

Nice even keel approach. Thoughtful, tactful, while still respectful of the individuals opinion.....giving him some allowance for perhaps clarifying his position to a specific situation, as opposed to a general broad statement. Great approach for a moderator. ;D

Dave

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2007, 04:21:46 PM »
.....then they are morons in my opinion...

Mac

Mac,

Nice even keel approach. Thoughtful, tactful, while still respectful of the individuals opinion.....giving him some allowance for perhaps clarifying his position to a specific situation, as opposed to a general broad statement. Great approach for a moderator. ;D

Dave

Is this sarcasm Dave ?...If so...read everything I said..and please don't take it out of context concerning the 243...My opinion is just that...and I stated it as such..IF... any parent is teaching their child that it is ok to take a Texas heart shot..then they are morons....in my opinion ...If not sarcasm..then thanks .. :-\

Mac
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2007, 05:39:40 PM »
.....then they are morons in my opinion...

Mac

Is this sarcasm Dave ?

No, this is not sarcasm. It is an honest and objective opinion of a moderator's response. I certainly agree with your thinking on the subject matter, but your manner of presentation is in desperate need of a re-write. I certainly think if your position is that of "Global Moderator", then you can make a point without using negative terms such as "morons" in your commentary.

MHO

Dave

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2007, 08:39:14 PM »
.....then they are morons in my opinion...

Mac

Is this sarcasm Dave ?

No, this is not sarcasm. It is an honest and objective opinion of a moderator's response. I certainly agree with your thinking on the subject matter, but your manner of presentation is in desperate need of a re-write. I certainly think if your position is that of "Global Moderator", then you can make a point without using negative terms such as "morons" in your commentary.

MHO

Dave
Dave...

I don't need you to lecture me on how to state my opinion...or do my job here...and it doesn't matter wither I am a global moderator or not...I didn't call anyone directly a Moron...which is why I ask you not to take what I said out of the context it was presented and something you apparently are trying to do...or is it that you are attempting to try to hi-jack another thread...It doesn't matter one way or the other..it ends here now. If you wish to continue this with me...do it via PM's..

Mac
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Offline handi243

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2007, 12:38:53 AM »
IF i can throw another in the mix 357max that is what i'm starting my kids on. keeping the distance close and teaching shot placement. You can start out with 38spl loads and work up. Good luck

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2007, 05:19:40 PM »
IF i can throw another in the mix 357max that is what i'm starting my kids on. keeping the distance close and teaching shot placement. You can start out with 38spl loads and work up. Good luck

What type of realistic range can you get with that? I thought about that but was thinking that it might not be a big improvement
over her .410 versa-pack which actually does well with 3" Brenneke slugs out to about 35 yards. I've considered having her just use the .410
as our hunting area is a lot of thick brush and having her keep the shots at a close distance. But then again having another handi-rifle to play with
is also a good idea!
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline James B

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2007, 07:13:46 PM »
I have had nothing but trouble with the three 243 handi rifles I have had. All three of them had awful case sticking problems. Done of the other Handi rifle I have had gave me any problem in this area. I am sorry to say that you could not even give me a 243 Handi rifle. I enjoyed as many of them as I can stand. Another vote for the 7mm-08. Now your talking about a gentle giant. Of the two though, I would have to go 30-30.
shot placement is everything.

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2007, 04:54:35 AM »

Quote
I thought about that but was thinking that it might not be a big improvement
over her .410 versa-pack which actually does well with 3" Brenneke slugs out to about 35 yards. I've considered having her just use the .410
as our hunting area is a lot of thick brush and having her keep the shots at a close distance

At this close of distance..Handi243 made a very good suggestion...The pistol calibers of 357/max/38special..... 44 mag/44 special,or 45 Long Colt would be more than adequate to do the job..All can be loaded up or down as needed...

Mac
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2007, 05:29:49 AM »
The people I know who are successful with a .243 are real good shots and know all of the proper angles for different presentations. A beginner is not and does not. The .243 comes into its own with longer shots. A beginner shouldn't be trying those.



Mike,

I would respectfully disagree with that. A young person needs to spend time at a range perfecting his shooting both from a fixed bench and offhand, standing, knelling and prone. His confidence should be strong so he feels he can put the bullet where it needs to go within the confines of the given situation. He also needs to be taught how a bullet will travel when the animal is not only broadside, but quartering too, and away. A quartering too shot, if not placed almost perfectly, can result in a gut shot and a long day. A quartering away shot has a bit more lead way and can almost (and almost is a broad term) always hit the vitals going thru towards the exit.

However, if it's a 243, 30-30, 30-06 or a 308, these matters need to be taught to the young pup from the get go. Time needs to be spent with 'em. It's just the right thing to do.

MHO

Dave

Offline wgr

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2007, 05:45:13 AM »
do,nt let the guys that think bigger is better get to you .i hunt with a muzzler loader  becouse  i live in a shotgun state.  i have seen whitetail deer shot as many as 5 times with a 12gage slug.  its shot placement
 more deer have been killed with the 30-30 but the .243 is a great one too just teach the young lady to shoot and shoot well and eather will do fine. my son missed his first deer with a slug gun  pick up my round ball shooter and never looked back
never to much gun

Offline aulrich

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2007, 06:56:55 AM »
As important as placement is for me it is only part of the equation I look at placement, power and bullet construction as  legs of a stool.  Though placement means  the path to a vital hit (not I could gut shoot an elk if I was using a 50 bmg). And bullet construction is more the bullets ability to use the available power to created a killing wound. So  I could shoot at the south end of a north bound elk with a 338 wm or 375 H&H and expect the bullet to make it to the vitals if properly placed and a properly constructed bullet is used, but I would not attempt that with a 243.

Now that is an over stated example but lets look at a big buck quartering towards you a perfectly valid shot but I am not convinced that a 243 with a standard cup and core bullet is up to the task, now this is where a better bullet might buy you something a tsx or partition might be up to the task. Where as just about any 30-30 load inside of it's effective range would be up to the task.

For me the 243 lack of power (though it is really close) makes me depend on placement and bullet construction too much. Add .5mm of diameter and 20-40 grains of bullet then your talking, but then your talking 260.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2007, 08:08:57 AM »
do,nt let the guys that think bigger is better get to you .i hunt with a muzzler loader  becouse  i live in a shotgun state.  i have seen whitetail deer shot as many as 5 times with a 12gage slug.  its shot placement
 more deer have been killed with the 30-30 but the .243 is a great one too just teach the young lady to shoot and shoot well and eather will do fine. my son missed his first deer with a slug gun  pick up my round ball shooter and never looked back

12 ga. slugs aren't even in this equation...even though I do agree with you on how well they will kill a whitetail....A 12ga most likely would be way too much for the young girl to handle...I wouldn't subject either one of my young boys to them...to start out with....I've taken many deer with both Foster type & Hybrids..and sabots...even in a Ultra Slug Hunter..they pack a heck of a punch to the shooter...A MZ is also good whitetail medicine..but..it too isn't being figured in as of yet...IMHO...I think I would start the young girl on a easy kicking center fire first...It would be much easier to teach her the fundamentals of shooting a deer without the extra effort involved with the BP rifle...but..this is just my opinion on it...


Quote
Now that is an over stated example but lets look at a big buck quartering towards you a perfectly valid shot but I am not convinced that a 243 with a standard cup and core bullet is up to the task

At the yardages he is now thinking about letting his daughter hunt( 35 yards & thick cover)..it would be up to it..and then some..given the right bullet type...but I don't think it would be my choice now knowing the possible yardages he will be letting her hunt from......Something much larger..and slower would be my first choice for this close of distance...He could though...just as added insurance always pick up some of the Fusion ammo and see how well she handles it for hunting.....The price is nice on them as some have found out recently...Varmint loads to practice with..then switch over to the heavier bullets for hunting... With the advent of very good bullets in the Fusion..Nosler Partitions,and the Triple Shocks...the 243 is much more than a varmint rifle...Granted..I wouldn't go after anything larger with it...but..as a whitetail rifle..with the heavier deer bullets it does exceptionally well...If my friend at work will e-mail the pictures of his young boys trophy's to me..I'll post them for you to see just how big the deer were that he has taken with his NEF Ultra light 243...He's done exceptionally well with it...

Mac
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Offline youngbdv

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2007, 11:38:59 AM »
Either one will work fine,If the shooter can hit the vitals or kill zone. I've seen deer run off and not be found with bad hits from a .338 Winchester magnum.

Offline deltecs

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2007, 12:53:48 PM »
The .243 Win is plenty sufficient for deer size game if using the proper bullets.  The better bullet weights are in the 95+ gr weights.  I've found that bullets with a sectional density of around .250 are best on deer size game.  The .243 Wind has the advantage of longer game getting shots compared to the 30-30, if the hunter is capable of shooting at such ranges accurately.  The 30-30 round uses bullets normally in the 170 gr range and thus has higher sectional density, which is probably why it has such a good reputation for a game getter.  Not to detract from rifles that are light, sufficiently accurate, and fast target acquisition chambered for this venerable round.  Either would be a fine choice for new hunters as ammo is reasonable and easy to find.  Both are excellent deer rounds.  I have both and use both in Alaska on deer size game, such as goat, deer, average black bear, caribou, and the occasional sheep.  The 30-30 is a T/C old style single shot, so pointed bullets can be used to best effect at long range.   In no way am I to disparage levers in 30-30 as they are effective too.  I agree with earlier posts to find the rifle that fits the hunter and either cartridge will be fine for deer hunting.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

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Offline palmrose2

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2008, 06:40:35 AM »
I'm a newby here so take that for what it is worth. I always worried about a .243s effect on deer. Having owned one for a couple of years now I can say with certainty that any sized whitetail can effectively be taken with one. The same goes for the 30-30. I personally prefer the .243 as a round but am torn because of the lack of ejectors in the new NEFs. The 30-30 is a rimmed cartridge that is much easier to extract for a second shot. One more thing to think about.


Offline walkingwolf

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2008, 07:00:56 AM »
 Well here we go lol

  I have shot a 243 for over 50 yrs. and have 50  one shot kills bucks from 180# to 235#.
  It woll shot 3 shot 1 hole @ 100 yrds. and take anything you want in the usa.

   Hand load for her look at the pressure not speed.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2008, 08:29:09 AM »
I dont know if you realized it or not.. but this IS an 20mo old thread...  ::)

 Doublebass73, What did you end up with for your Daughter?

 CW
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2008, 08:30:37 AM »
Dust the thread off, and it's still the same!

Just one more reason to choose the 30-30, and that's the fact that it just keeps getting the job done.

It's just a blue collar cartridge that's proven itself for generations.
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2008, 08:36:07 AM »
I dont know if you realized it or not.. but this IS an 20mo old thread...  ::)

 

That's one of the caveats of FAQs links, they get replies occasionally.  :D

Tim
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2008, 08:47:16 AM »
Just went through this decision process with my grandaughter so it's time relevent for me anyway...

I chose the 30-30 having shot both, and I don't really care for the snappy recoil of the .243, as I've always preferred the gentle push of the old hoss 30-30 and with managed recoil ammo it was a no brainer.
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2008, 02:44:02 PM »
CW,

I ended up getting a .357 Magnum. It worked out perfect because she
can shoot .38 Special wadcutters out of it. They kick and sound like .22's. She hasn't gotten a shot at a deer yet so she doesn't know that I load it with full house .357's for hunting. She is recoil shy but is getting better. This past fall she finally was able to shoot the .410 barrel on her Versa Pack without being scared. She's 10 but she's also pretty small. I like the .357 myself so I also hunt with it. The only thing I don't like about it is it's a heavy barrel so it's a bit much for a kid to carry. I usually end up carrying it for her.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2008, 11:46:31 PM »
I usually end up carrying it for her.

Aw...man....You are such a DAD!!!

(Enjoy these times...they fly by so fast! My oldest son just got married. He is 28, my oldest daughter is 26 and my youngest daughter is 22. I can't tell you how I miss those days when they were 10.  Enjoy!!)

Dave

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2008, 11:59:43 PM »
Great to hear. Glad you got her shooting and that she seems to like it!!

Yes the 357Mag will do the job, do you hand load? (I dont remember if you said) If so, I really like the Hornady 158FP bullet form a 357mag rifle. Load with a stiff load of 296/H110/ lilGun. It will certainly, "lay-em low"!!

CW
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2008, 12:51:36 AM »
Thanks Dave, yes I'm trying to treasure these days. They are flying by. My oldest daughter is 13 and
I was finally able to at least get her out hunting on youth weekend this year. Luckily my son is 6 so
I hopefully have some years ahead of me hunting with him. The girls are more of a challenge to get out hunting
but I'm grateful that they even go at all. Both girls are really good at shooting especially the 10 year old.

I don't handload yet CW but it's on my list of things to do.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline PeterCartwright

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2008, 01:36:51 AM »
Lots of variables in these discussions, aren't there!  Northern whitetails (or farm country animals!) may have twice or more body mass than some Southern country counterparts.  Hunting over food plots or even bait piles provides a lot more leeway to wait for broadside presentations.  Trail watching, still hunting or worse, drives, are a whole other matter.  Lightly constructed bullets in any caliber have a much narrower window of performance on deer sized game.

Seems to me that we sometimes find ourselves in strong disagreements because of the peculiarity of our own hunting circumstances.  In my deer hunting experience (which is more than some and a LOT less than others), whitetails are not hard to kill humanely if a person has the luxury of waiting for broadside presentations. The large bodied doe I took last month with the tiny .223 Remington (53 gr. TSX @ about 50 yards) died just as quickly as deer I've shot with substantially larger cartridges, but it's hardly a cartridge I'd choose for "snap shooting" at fleeing deer.  Variables!

PC

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Deer rifle for daughter .243 vs. 30-30
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2008, 03:51:45 AM »
Variables and compromises absalute maybes, Ya got that right Peter. I like the .357 choice thou, She can grow with that rifle, as she dose you can ream to the max and extend the range some while learning another fun hobby.... Reloading.  Enjoy. :o ;D
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