Author Topic: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System (Read 5733 times)

ms · « **on:** June 19, 2007, 10:11:37 PM »

2007
Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System

Here’s one to weigh in on: Three years ago, Remington came out with an electronic ignition system for centerfire cartridges that replaced the conventional one with a trigger that closed a circuit and zapped a current into an electronic primer, which ignited the powder charge. The Etronx system worked very well, but did not succeed commercially for reasons known only beyond my pay grade.

Now, CVA has come up with some very similar to Etronix system in a black-powder rifle. The .50 muzzle-loader, called Electra, dispenses with the beloved 209 shotgun primer, and relies instead upon electronic circuitry (see photo) that sends them volts right into the powder charge. So what you get is a no-movement trigger, lightning-fast ignition, more uniform powder burning, and less mess to clean up.

Electra is powered by a 9-volt lithium battery that is good for 500 shots. That noise you hear is Jim Bridger whirling in his grave.

Now there are two ways to view this:
Electra is an amazing step forward in black powder shooting, and deserves to be a monstrous success.

Electra runs counter to the whole idea of using a muzzleloader, where you’re supposed to be using a primitive weapon. Why not have done with it and develop cartridges for the thing?

Which side are you on?

January 09, 2007 | Permalink

ms · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2007, 10:14:36 PM »

junk!

daddywpb · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2007, 10:29:00 PM »

I can see a whole bunch of states making it illegal to hunt with.

NONYA · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2007, 10:55:11 PM »

what a joke,nobody who enjoys the nostalgia side of shooting a ML would want one,only the guys who took up ML hunting to hunt areas restricted to primitive weapons will see this as an improvement.

ironglow · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2007, 12:45:22 AM »

MS;

I believe the reason the Etronic rifle failed to catch on and the reason this rifle will fail to market well..is just as you said...

Every hunter has a little bit of Jim Bridger in him !....and we don't want no "steenking e-lec-tronics" in our hunting rifles ...LOL

Target rifles may be another matter..but not in the woods...

Wolfhound · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2007, 03:16:53 AM »

It's already illegal here as Illinois law states that it has to be either percussion, flintlock, matchlock, or wheel lock ignition. It may become legal in the future but I don't think it's likely. By the time the bureaucracy gets to it, it'll probably have already gone the way of the dodo.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2007, 04:21:43 AM »

There is a very simple explanation as to why the Electronic Ignition System failed! It is too easy for the government to disable in mass. One large electromagnetic pluse and all of the civiliam weapons could be dsabled. Reload your own and you can still protect yourself. Notice how they are now totting the Electronic Ignition System as a gun safety device and they will soon be requiring manufacturers to adopt their new safety standard.

Semisane · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:32:46 AM »

Electronics to set off a powder charge that I'm dumping in a barrel? NO WAY!!!

To me it would be the same as putting the cap or primer on before you dump the powder - looking for trouble. How would you like to dump a powder charge on a malfunctioning trigger circuit?

elkstalkr · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2007, 07:09:33 AM »

All I know is I would NOT trust a battery to set off my charge in Nebraska's Sub-zero December muzzleloading season.

We all know what extreme cold weather does to any battery.

reward · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2007, 11:33:25 AM »

I'd like to try one out. I have had several different muzzleloaders, t/c, knight, cva, nef. I currently own a t/c hawken and a cva kodiak, I love shooting and hunting with the hawken but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the qualities of the kodiak as well.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2007, 05:01:32 AM »

Sounds like a gimmick to me.

alsaqr · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:08:20 AM »

Sounds like another gimmick looking for a need.

oldrookie · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2007, 05:02:46 AM »

I am carrying too much in the woods as is. The last thing I need is to have to remember backup batteries.

I go along with the post above. I do not like the idea of dumping powder and then a slug down the barrel trusting the ignition is disabled.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2007, 05:03:03 AM »

Bad idea in my opinion.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2007, 05:34:32 AM »

HOLD ON, HOLD ON, is everyone actually agreeing on something here???

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2007, 07:54:41 AM »

Quote from: SDS-GEN on June 22, 2007, 05:34:32 AM

HOLD ON, HOLD ON, is everyone actually agreeing on something here???

That is amazing here.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2007, 12:11:24 PM »

Didnt you guys take notice to how long the battery lasts with the switch left on?

crb4809 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2007, 07:14:42 AM »

In my experience electronic anything will eventual fail. The failure will be either a failure to perform at the appointed time, like when you have your sights on the trophy of a lifetime and it does not ignite the charge. The other failure will be to perform at an inopportune time, like when you have a slug half way down the barrel and it does set off the charge. In the first failure I would be mad, upset and disgruntled to say the least. The second failure could maim, disfigure and kill. IMO I do not see a need for an electronic ignition nor do I like the potential failures.

encore3006 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2007, 02:14:53 PM »

F.Y.I.

From the Colorado Division of Wildlife (http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/)

Attention Muzzleloaders

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Division of Wildlife has received a number of inquiries concerning a new muzzleloading rifle made by CVA called the Electra ARC. It is considered a legal muzzle loading firearm for use in Colorado. IF hunters intend to have the chamber of this muzzle-loader charged with powder and ball, they must disconnect and remove the battery to stay within the spirit of the law (compliance) regarding loaded firearms in motor vehicles. The other option is to keep the firearm completely unloaded when in or on any motor vehicle.

30-06man · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:17:22 AM »

OK what if a monster buck walks out and you have a perfect shot. and you reach to pull the trigger and it doesn't do anything. it got wet it fell or the battery is dead. then while loading it goes off sabot is now in your head. it shorts out and shoots and you don't know it. too many things can go wrong. its dangerous it should be illegal to even own. also what if black powder gets into the electronic system and it messes it up. it would be a pain to clean and if you get solvent or oil or water on the electronic system it could be bad! i ain't going to buy it!!

harvester · « **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2007, 03:26:27 AM »

Quote from: T/CEncore1 on August 07, 2007, 06:17:22 AM

OK what if a monster buck walks out and you have a perfect shot. and you reach to pull the trigger and it doesn't do anything. it got wet it fell or ...

for a minute there i thought we were in the traditional forum !

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #21 on:** August 14, 2007, 06:54:09 AM »

Quote from: T/CEncore1 on August 07, 2007, 06:17:22 AM

OK what if a monster buck walks out and you have a perfect shot. and you reach to pull the trigger and it doesn't do anything. it got wet it fell or the battery is dead. then while loading it goes off sabot is now in your head. it shorts out and shoots and you don't know it. too many things can go wrong. its dangerous it should be illegal to even own. also what if black powder gets into the electronic system and it messes it up. it would be a pain to clean and if you get solvent or oil or water on the electronic system it could be bad! i ain't going to buy it!!

What if you pull the trigger on your sidelock or inline and only the cap fires but not the main charge? And while loading, im sure even you would be smart enough to keep the barrel pointed AWAY from your body/head.

30-06man · « **Reply #22 on:** August 14, 2007, 01:47:08 PM »

i was saying when you was loading if it goes off. since its always got ingnition it can fire. its not safe.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #23 on:** August 14, 2007, 02:14:57 PM »

Quote from: T/CEncore1 on August 14, 2007, 01:47:08 PM

i was saying when you was loading if it goes off. since its always got ingnition it can fire. its not safe.

Pull the battery while loading. Seeing how it is your "primer" that shouldnt be a problem.

Two cars doing 75mph and coming at each other with 2 feet between them isnt safe but we all go with it right?

Busta · « **Reply #24 on:** August 15, 2007, 05:26:45 AM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on August 14, 2007, 02:14:57 PM

Quote from: T/CEncore1 on August 14, 2007, 01:47:08 PM
i was saying when you was loading if it goes off. since its always got ingnition it can fire. its not safe.

Pull the battery while loading. Seeing how it is your "primer" that shouldnt be a problem.

Two cars doing 75mph and coming at each other with 2 feet between them isnt safe but we all go with it right?

Ever heard of stored energy? The battery is not the primer, it merely supplies the energy to the circuit, which supplies ignition. Humidity, temperature and other factors will make this system unreliable and worse yet, unpredictable. You couldn't pay me to load it.

AndyHass · « **Reply #25 on:** August 15, 2007, 06:47:11 AM »

While I am FAR from sold on the idea, I think we're jumping to conclusions here. I want to see the design and built-in safety features. How is the "sparker" separated from the battery/capacitor during loading/safe times? Is there a "cocking" mechanism that keeps the electric circuit disarmed until it is engaged prior to firing? Who knows, there could even theoretically be a mechanical separation of the sparker poles until cocking so that it is impossible to get a spark jump until the poles are brought into physical proximity.

I would think that igniting blackpowder electronically takes a heck of a voltage jump. I would bet it is fired by a capacitor, not the battery.

We trust our sparkplugs to fire millions of times in perfect sequence. Granted your head isn't over the cylinder at the time, but my point is it's not impossible to make a reliable system. I won't comment on this particular one without knowing the design.

30-06man · « **Reply #26 on:** August 15, 2007, 07:08:49 AM »

if the battery shorts and it sparks. like

Quote from: Busta on August 15, 2007, 05:26:45 AM

Quote from: bigblock455 on August 14, 2007, 02:14:57 PM
Quote from: T/CEncore1 on August 14, 2007, 01:47:08 PM
i was saying when you was loading if it goes off. since its always got ingnition it can fire. its not safe.

Pull the battery while loading. Seeing how it is your "primer" that shouldnt be a problem.

Two cars doing 75mph and coming at each other with 2 feet between them isnt safe but we all go with it right?

Ever heard of stored energy? The battery is not the primer, it merely supplies the energy to the circuit, which supplies ignition. Humidity, temperature and other factors will make this system unreliable and worse yet, unpredictable. You couldn't pay me to load it.

how are you going to pull the battery? its in the pistol grip you would have to take it off them put it back. now you would have to carry a screw driver with you. and back up batterys. you would have to take the battery out so it would not crroid and mess up. and if you forget to put it back in before you go hunting? its too complicated and its going to be a flaw.what he said. you can't pay me to load it. if you leave the system on by accident and then when your loading something hits the trigger then it fires. with a primer you put the primer in after loading. too much stuff can go wrong. what happens if it breaks who are you going to take it to? a electrician because your gun smith will not know either. and then if something goes wrong with the computer board in who are you taking it too? a computer repair man? its stupid. you might as well not waste the money but if you want to its yours. its not going to last long the 209 works best and most states outlaw the new cva already.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #27 on:** August 15, 2007, 07:25:24 AM »

If something breaks, all you do is call customer service tell them your problem and they ship you a new part. Simple as that. You'd have to handle one and actually learn how it works before jumping all over and saying parts will corrode and/or break.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #28 on:** August 15, 2007, 07:57:35 AM »

wow im watching the electra movie right now. That thing is awesome! Puts the 209 rifles to shame big time.

30-06man · « **Reply #29 on:** August 15, 2007, 08:14:52 AM »

i would not buy it as they probably won't back it up next year when they quit making them. remington tried it a while back and it failed badly.