Author Topic: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System  (Read 5735 times)

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Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2007, 08:45:40 AM »
remington it self is a failure.  That movie was awesome though. Especially when the encore wouldnt even ignite the loose powder or pellets. Then the electra lets loose with the pellets and sounds like a rocket going off. That was pretty cool. Now im gonna go see if my winchester can set 30grains of triple 7 off without a bullet over the top  ;D

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2007, 10:23:05 AM »
nah i watched it. my encore does that i tried it a while back. i used 50 grains and it went out the barrel sounding like a rocket. for the money i would buy the cva optima elite with 2 barrels they cost the same. Remington's not a failure in my opion. the 700 870 1187 1100 are defiantly not failures.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline Double 30

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2007, 10:53:14 AM »
Saw the Electra video at Cabelas yesterday, facinating to say the least.Its ,most likely , a solution in search of a problem.Battery life if left on 600hrs.Shot life500 rounds.When turned on requires a 25-30 sec warm up before the first shot.I think a better question to consider might be; what ever happened to objectively examining a new technology? I dare say most critics are having a knee jerk reaction without looking at the available info.Another thing to keep in mind is that in this sue crazy country we live in I imagine CVA went to great expense to make sure an Electra doesnt prematurely fire. That being said,although the Electra is a facinating concept, I'm not interested in one.I like all my guns , breech or muzzleloader to be steel and walnut( or nice maple ;D).The gun culture has a rich heritage of expression of various excuses for poor groups , misfires, and missed game.The Electra could potentially increase that with such things as; My battery died or Forgot to turn my rifle on... ::)
Deo Vindice

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2007, 11:33:50 AM »
i guess if you are a tech hunter where you buy all the new stuff and got to have the newest and latest thing then this might be for you. there's just so much that could go wrong. they need to take it and test it for the life that someone might have it.. i might would buy one years on down the road if they prove reliable. right now the 209 is great. i don't want to trust battery's made in china to fire my gun. it also could be a fire hazard. if you hunt in the extreme cold it will drive the battery down more. one battery cost about as much as 1 box of 500 209 primers at my gun shop. i would just stick with the proving guns and stay away from media junk. all the hype about the gun doesn't mean its good. they can make it sound good isn't always. we need some results. we need to know if its going to last. i won't waste my money and media. oneil is going to make it sound good because cva writes him a big check every month its like when he was sponsored by glock he ''said'' he hunted  with it. all his new epsoids they show that new gun not once has he hunted with it. i think he thinks its junk. recoil could tear it up too. just too many things can go wrong with it. in my mind its like gambling untill you know how it is and its life. i don't want to take the risk and forget to turn off my gun and while loading something hits the trigger and blows up in my face. or it shorts. the 209 you put the primer in after you load. its gambling on money and your life. i ain't taking no chances. think about it. go hunting and come back to the family or go and never return.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2007, 02:02:28 PM »
when dealing with a front stuffer, we all take chances. I take  a huge risk of flame 5 inches away from my eye when i shoot my flintlocks.  I noticed you put money before life.  :D that seems to be the way people are these days.

"i ain't taking no chances. think about it. go hunting and come back to the family or go and never return."

 Whoops i was hunting,fell, broke my leg in the middle of the wilderness where i hunt because i know, no one else will hike in this deep other than me.  Sorry, but everything we do in life it taking a chance at ending up dead.  Kind of like the health freaks who eat healthy, exercise and then end up dying from something stupid. Cant keep worrying about every little thing out there.

Go hunting and come back to the family or go and never return......   Ever been in a slick spot while driving to a hunting area and find you arse cheeks biting the seat as your truck is sliding to the side of the road that is a 1/4 mile drop off?

Just because the rifle uses an electric ignition doesnt mean you'll end up dead  ;D
 Personally i think this is the only muzzleloader that is modern. Break opens, rolling blocks, hammer style rifles have been around since the 1800s. Todays muzzleloader makers are going BACKWARDS in time and  just slightly improving old designs that worked. My inline rifle now is somewhat modern and uses a bolt. No hammer. I think hammers are out of date for todays modern muzzleloader.

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2007, 04:50:35 PM »
if i get into a wreck or fall then i have more of a chance than a .50cal bullet in my head. i know there is always risks. in-lines are modern flint locks aren't. and when i put money before life i wasn't putting them in any specif order. yet were i hunt there are no roads with 1/4 mile drop offs. it really dosen't snow down in the south till around jan feb. that includes ice. you may think that its proven and ill trust hammers. they are reliable. sure it may be harder at least i know. shoot you can kill it with a rock it dosen't matter. i rather shoot a flint lock before some electric junk i like to keep hunting simple. i don't use all that scent lock stuff and i still have a 13 point on a wall and a   6 year old 7 point with chocolate antlers and another 8 point. i have killed more deer than i can count on my hands and feet. most bucks and 2 does. they provided meat for my family. hunting can be simple unless you make it hard. as far as that gun sure it may be good but it dosen't meet my standards for the muzzleloader. i have had cva's before they were ok guns but my t/c now thats a true accurate muzzleloader that i will not trade.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline merhunts

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2007, 05:42:56 PM »
Come on guys you really think attacking something before it has a chance to prove itself is decent conduct?
What happened when the first pyrodex pellets hit the market?
Did you "Wolves" circle and attack them as well?
Did You also attack Knight when they come out with the disc muzzle loader?
Or am I the only one that welcomes this technology.
Do you really think its going to get wet more than what we are dealing with already?
They claim it has a water tight seal, you guys trust your GPS to be water proof, so why not the electronics of this muzzle loader.
As far as the malfunction of the ignition, if you are changing the points on an older car why don't you get shocked? Because you have the key in your car turned off, so if on the muzzle loader you have the on and off switch turn to the OFF position than how the heck is it going to go off.
If it does go off it is operator error. Because the opperator forgot to turn it off.



I'll sum it up simple! Most of you guy just don't like change!
You can't kill 'em if you ain't in the woods.

Offline NONYA

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2007, 07:25:03 PM »
I think its as simple as not wanting to own a FIREARM that depends on a electronic device to remain safe and fire when you want it to,why do you want everyone to like it so badly?I dont want a gun that has a warm up  period before i can fire it or one that can be rendered useless by a dead battery.I dont see any advantages at all to this new system,just lots of possible disadvantages and things that wil keep you wondering about its reliability.i wouldn't be surprised if it is illegal in some states hunting regs to begin with.I know we have rules about electronic devices and rifles here.It will fail,they wont sell like they think they will and they will go off the market,id put money on it.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline merhunts

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2007, 07:56:11 PM »
I think its as simple as not wanting to own a FIREARM that depends on a electronic device to remain safe and fire when you want it to,why do you want everyone to like it so badly?I dont want a gun that has a warm up  period before i can fire it or one that can be rendered useless by a dead battery.I dont see any advantages at all to this new system,just lots of possible disadvantages and things that wil keep you wondering about its reliability.i wouldn't be surprised if it is illegal in some states hunting regs to begin with.I know we have rules about electronic devices and rifles here.It will fail,they wont sell like they think they will and they will go off the market,id put money on it.

I could care less if people like it or not. What I am getting at is people are attacking it before it has a chance to be a failure. It may flop like a wet rag but it might just be a good thing for hunting. But should we attack it before it has a chance. How long does a 9 volt battery last in a smoke detector? Yet we depend on them to wake us up if there is a fire in the house at night. And we usually change them once a year. I don't think the battery is going to go dead it the Electra like people are thinking. If a battery will last a year in a smoke detector. Than a battery in a muzzle loader we use for maybe two to three week is going to go dead in that period of time. And there will be states that will not allow them. The major advantage that I see is the fact that you don't have all the crud from the primer going into the barrel which will make it easier to clean. Bottom line is we should use what we like and don't attack what we don't like. If I decide to use one of these you should ask what are the pro's and con's of it, and not attack something that is unfamiliar. If you don't want one than don't buy one.
You can't kill 'em if you ain't in the woods.

Offline NONYA

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2007, 08:20:20 PM »
Ill take the 5 min it takes me to clean the primer hole after a full day of shooting for the battery that may or may not work when I need it to any day.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline merhunts

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2007, 08:28:46 PM »
There's no guarantee that your muzzle loader will go off either. I have had a 209 primer not go off. I still don't know what was wrong with it. Don't get me wrong I may never buy one of these guns but I am not going to say they are junk until they prove to be junk.
You can't kill 'em if you ain't in the woods.

Offline NONYA

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2007, 08:40:35 PM »
I have NEVER had a 209 FTF but if i did i would slap in a new one and fire away,if the electronics on this new wangled pos dont work you are done.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline merhunts

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2007, 09:02:00 PM »
That's what I did and killed the deer. My point was that you can have problems with any system.
You can't kill 'em if you ain't in the woods.

Offline NONYA

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2007, 10:19:32 PM »
If something breaks in the field you cant have customer service come out and fix it,your hunt is over and probably your season depending on turn around time at the service center.When you guys run out and buy them give us some feedback at the end of this years seasons,then we will know if they held up.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
http://www.freewebs.com/lifealongthedge/index.htm

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2007, 07:46:50 AM »
uh i don't use a gps. i walked miles in the woods for 20+ years and still i haven't got lost. i don't want to trust electronics to fire my gun or anything else. hunting is ment to be peace full and fun not wearisome. shoot all of you have bought electronics that broke so why gamble it on something cheap made. sure its a good idea for someone who can't stand using stuff that works. ill compare this to that iphone junk. people went crazy much as you all have about this gun people went and bought it paid $600 it turned out to be junk! so what makes you think that this is something good? most electronic are junk they never last. they break. if you drop it the computer might break causing miss fires. the 209 and 11primers work just fine why replace it? sure when pyrodex hit the market i bought it because it was black powder just in pellets and it was cheap! this gun isn't. for its price on this gun i can have the t/c omega stainless steel with a nikon prostaff scope or the new triumph with a prostaff scope. or even a blued encore a remington 700 all proven guns. sure i am all for advancement in the sport but this this is like taking our sport and killing it. i don't want a gun that if i drop in a creek i have to worry about picking it up for missfires or electricution or shorts. so much can go wrong. way more than any other gun. too much. and if it breaks and cva says send it to a dealer what gun smith can fix it?? i won't be wasting my money on a flop. its going to be one.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2007, 08:52:23 AM »
If something breaks in the field you cant have customer service come out and fix it,your hunt is over and probably your season depending on turn around time at the service center.When you guys run out and buy them give us some feedback at the end of this years seasons,then we will know if they held up.

Cant fix any rifle when your in a little town that is lucky enough to carry a small assortment of muzzleloading items.

Offline Wolfhound

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2007, 09:54:49 AM »
It's a moot point here. It's already illegal. If it were legal I still wouldn't bother. I don't like the idea of my gun being dependent on a battery, same reason why I don't like electronic sights. The only batteries I carry hunting are in my rangefinder, flashlight, and digital camera.

Offline NONYA

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2007, 10:15:41 AM »
Should be able to pick them up cheep as soon as they quit making them.I have never had an inline break,i have had just about everything I own with electronics break down at some point.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
http://www.freewebs.com/lifealongthedge/index.htm

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2007, 10:20:42 AM »
I dont see what the big deal about the battery is. I bought a range finder 3 years ago and just now replaced the battery. I use it a lot during muzzleloading season and leave it in the truck all night when its cold out. Carry it out in the rain no problems. I'd easily give the electra a try just to experience it.

Offline NONYA

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2007, 11:15:08 AM »
Try it,let us know how it performs.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2007, 11:36:00 AM »
already been looking at one  ;D  That and a new flintlock.

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2007, 12:19:21 PM »
Should be able to pick them up cheep as soon as they quit making them.I have never had an inline break,i have had just about everything I own with electronics break down at some point.
my point. also after a few people get shot in the head with one while loading. some stupid person would forget to turn it off and it would fire into someones head. its going to flop. or miss fires from moisture, shock, dropping it, low battery, etc. its going to flop so many things can and will go wrong. in our world someone will sue cva for all its worth. although i do like the new optima elite with the 30.06 barrel and 50cal muzzle loader. i see a future of that gun in my gun case.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline Todd1700

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2007, 08:00:09 AM »
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Exactly what problem is this new electronic muzzle loader supposed to fix? I guess you wouldn't need primers anymore but now you will need batteries.  Also I can't say that I like the idea of pointing a muzzle loader up in the general  direction of my head as I ram a sabot down onto a powder charge and depending on an electric 'off' switch (probably made by a 12 year old Korean kid) to prevent my head from getting blown off. Yeah I guess you could yank the battery out between every shot but how convenient is that going to be? At present all I have to do between shots to stay safe while loading is "NOT" put a new primer in place. It's a lot easier to "Not" do something than having to disconnect a battery each time. Also, I know how many shots I have left with primers because I can count how many I have left. What am I supposed to do with a 500 shot battery? Keep a note pad in my pocket with a running shot count on it? Otherwise "attempted" shot 501 is likely to be at the buck of a lifetime.

And since I started this rant with an old saying I guess I'll end it with another. "The more complicated you make the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain." The 209 primer system on most muzzle loaders is a very simple and reliable ignition system. There are only a few problems that can cause it to fail and nearly all of them can be fixed by you in the field. In fact after hundreds of shots I have personally never had a 209 primer fail to ignite a powder charge in the field or at the range. When you bring electronic circuits and connections into the picture well the potential problems jump 10 fold. And good luck finding the problem with the micro circuitry inside this gun and fixing it yourself in the field.

Offline cascadedad

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2007, 09:08:57 AM »
I want one.  I'm a slob hunter that will use anything to make things easier.  I only hunt a MLer because of the outstanding opportunity it provides in my state.  Actually, I despise them, I would much rather use a semi-auto rifle and just blaze away at game.  RWS caps are getting hard to come by and more expensive all the time.  9V batteries are cheap and apparently will last a long time in one of these awesome rifles.  If it blows me up, my wife and kids will be better off than they are now.  I have already located a good lawyer and filled him in on what is going on.

I can't imagine you guys bashing this.  Haven't you heard, all of us modern muzzleloaders are the same?  Technology is where it is at!  You guys are all wrong.  This is destined to become a HUGE seller!  Start pressuring your local game officials now.  If it's legal where you live, put pressure on them to keep it legal.  If it isn't legal, put pressure on them to make it legal!!!!!  Form letters and mass mailings get results.  Have everyone you know send letters.  We must unite!!!!!!!

Or not.   :P :P :P

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2007, 10:14:10 AM »
LMAOROTF!! Good one C'dad!!

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2007, 11:04:29 AM »
its not legal. i would be the first to send a letter to make it illegal. the reason we don't bash other ml is because there is no problems with it. it may be a big seller but in the long run it won't make it 10 years. you couldn't sell me one. that was still funny. if it lasts and is good ill sell my encore and buy one.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline K.K

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2007, 12:46:28 PM »
What could be more simple than powder, bullet, primer, FIRE!?  Most of work hard for the shots that we get, and I would not trust this system in foul weater, when hunting is usually best. I've had batteries fail on my range-finder, radio, flashlights, etc in cold weather. Although a nuisance, they didn't ruin the day like a failed ignition at the moment of truth. Nope, I'll stick with my Encore, thanks.

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2007, 01:24:33 PM »
i belive that to. why complicate it. hunting is getting to modern, it never was this bad with all the new tech. the 209 gets the job done. why get rid of it?
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2007, 02:15:10 PM »
break open, scopes, fiber optic sights, 209 primers, sabots are all to modern.  #11 cap or flintlock or even earlier ignition is where the real muzzle loader is found.

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Electrifying Muzzleloaders: CVA's New Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2007, 02:51:45 PM »
its still diffrent it is still based around what the orginal was. the primer it had been a staple we just use 209 which is old. we still use blackpowder, and the bullet is all based on old tech. but electronics isn't. optics are older they have been around since early times with the telescope! fiber optics are new and i don't use them much i pefer while steel sights
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick