Author Topic: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?  (Read 2507 times)

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Offline coyote trapper1928

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 ???

  Does this make any sense? The 30-30 LeverEvolution has more energy at 300 yards than the .35 Rem. LeverEvolution ?   Why would anyone chose a .35 Rem over a 30-30,  considering the ballistic superiority of the 30-30 ?
coyote trapper1928

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2007, 05:09:45 PM »
???

  Does this make any sense? The 30-30 LeverEvolution has more energy at 300 yards than the .35 Rem. LeverEvolution ?   Why would anyone chose a .35 Rem over a 30-30,  considering the ballistic superiority of the 30-30 ?

 Why cause a bigger hole is always better, and by the time you account for the overinflated velocity claims on 30-30 ammo the 35 is a clear winner. I don't know why but every 30-30 load I've chronied in various rifles has always been about 200 fps slower than it should be. While 35 rem velocities seem to be spot on with the manufacturers claims. I think this is in large part to the fact that the factory specs on 30-30 are given for a 24" barrel when 99% of all 30-30 use a 20" tube. In the below links there is data for both rounds in Marlin 336'es as you can see with only 114 FPS difference between the two loads the extra 40grains of bullet weight the 35 has is the deal breaker.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm
http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=12087&highlight=&sid=0da95d52752d6934559036ae3738f9e8

 35 remington will launch a 200grn bullet as fast as 30-30 will a 170grain projectile. I don't care what kind of gimmick ammo you feed either round using either one on deer sized game past 200yds is an irresponsible stunt.

 30-06 has more energy that either one by a large margin, so why would you use a 30-30 or 35 at 200 yd + ranges

Offline Slamfire

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 07:46:41 PM »
???

  Does this make any sense? The 30-30 LeverEvolution has more energy at 300 yards than the .35 Rem. LeverEvolution ?   Why would anyone chose a .35 Rem over a 30-30,  considering the ballistic superiority of the 30-30 ?
Because he wanted to, besides numbers don't kill game, bullet placement means more'n size.
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline jvs

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2007, 10:01:09 PM »
???
 Does this make any sense? The 30-30 LeverEvolution has more energy at 300 yards than the .35 Rem. LeverEvolution ?   Why would anyone chose a .35 Rem over a 30-30,  considering the ballistic superiority of the 30-30 ?

I think the question you should be asking is: Why would anyone be shooting 300 yds with either of them.

If you are going hunting in an area where you know the possibility of a 300 yd shot is likely, your choice of either a .35 rem or a .30-30 is a poor one.  Being known in some parts as 'brush busters', those calibers are much more effective at ranges up to 150 yds or so, in places where seeing more than a few yds is an obstacle.

If you are just wondering why a 35 rem has less umph at 300 yds than a 30-30 does, it's because the bigger and heavier bullet runs out of gas alot sooner than a smaller, lighter bullet does.
 If you want to run with the Wolves, you can't Pee with the Puppies.

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2007, 12:20:09 AM »
Quote
it's because the bigger and heavier bullet runs out of gas alot sooner than a smaller, lighter bullet does.

 Somehow i DOUBT A .308 200GRN matchking @2600FPS will run short of energy before a .224 40grn B-TIP @3800

Offline Lone Star

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2007, 09:26:29 AM »
Krochus, he was obviously talking about those two bullets specifically, the .35 Rem 200  and the .30-30 170.  Of course a match bullet with 4x the weight and 2x the BC will have more energy at any range....but that wasn't the subject here was it?  ::)


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Offline 303Guy

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2007, 12:48:02 PM »
???

  Does this make any sense? The 30-30 LeverEvolution has more energy at 300 yards than the .35 Rem. LeverEvolution ?   Why would anyone chose a .35 Rem over a 30-30,  considering the ballistic superiority of the 30-30 ?

For what it is worth, my Dad once shot an African Cape buffalo with a short barreled 35 Remington, broadside, heart lung.  It dropped where it stood but he then discovered another buffalo behind the first with a broken shoulder which he had to finish off.  The African Cape buffalo is a rather large beast.

303Guy

Offline Sweet 6.5

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2007, 09:12:47 PM »
Wow - first buffalo I hear that falls from a heart lung shot on the spot - but then again I haven't
hunt one before. I wasn't even with when one was hunted.

Offline 303Guy

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2007, 09:39:45 AM »
You know, I'm going to have to check on that 'going down on the spot'.  I always thought that was what he said.  Of course, these buff were resting at the time.

303Guy

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2007, 09:47:53 AM »
303 man , i am so glad your dad did that ! to hear some tell it the buff can't be taken with anything less than a crew serviced weapon of 40 mm or larger !
odd how someone who can shoot well can get by with a plain old gun !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Lone Star

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2007, 03:35:18 AM »
I believe there is a big difference between "Taken" and "Hunted".  When I lived in Alaska, brown bear were routinely taken with a .22RF - killing an animal is not that tough for any bullet that reaches the right place.  But just killing is not hunting, and if we speak about actually hunting a large animal where it can get back at you, then few responsible hunters would choose to use hunt with a .22RF for a brownie or a .35 Remington for a buffalo.....


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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2007, 10:26:03 AM »
I always figured the hunt ended when you got in position for the shot !
over 1000 elephant were killed with a 7x57 and 6x57  with ball ammo D.W.M.Bell did it !
Many animals have been taken with bow , spear , etc. could it be the insurance factor that the hunter carries the large rifle ?
If i were to hunt dangerous game i would carry a "big enough " gun ! because i would want as much of a chance of survival as possible ! cause i realize if i screw up i might need it ! I also realize i could never gain the experience needed in a week long hunt , things like animal behavior or how one reacts to being shot in various places !
Lets face it if you can hunt dangerous game you most likely have the bucks to buy a big gun ! But there are people who live with the dangerous game and know their habits well enough to hunt them with any weapon spear etc.
I feel those people pick their hunt , when you book a hunt , you force a hunt to happen at a certain time , so you may be attacked if you are rushing to make it happen where the native can wait for the right time to shoot !
Look at all the joggers that are getting attacked by wild animals , natives seldom get attacked ( yes some do when they make a mistake  ) because they try not to put themselves in a position to do so ! but the jogger HAS THE RIGHT TO INVADE A HISTORICAL LION GROUND !
like i said one decides to take only after the hunt is successful !  One also must accept that a native living off the land is always hunting !

If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 303Guy

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2007, 07:34:05 PM »
I believe there is a big difference between "Taken" and "Hunted".  When I lived in Alaska, brown bear were routinely taken with a .22RF - killing an animal is not that tough for any bullet that reaches the right place.  But just killing is not hunting, and if we speak about actually hunting a large animal where it can get back at you, then few responsible hunters would choose to use hunt with a .22RF for a brownie or a .35 Remington for a buffalo.....

I hear you.  I would not hunt a cape buffalo with anything less than a 404 Jeffery.  I cannot comment as I was not even born then but I do know my Father shot several buffalo with that same rifle.  He never mentioned any inadequacies with it but then for someone who successfully hunted small antelope with a 22lr, he probably was a very careful shot and only took sure shots (and up close).  He hunted on foot, by the way.  (I don't think his Dad's Model 'T' Ford would have gone too far in the African bush).  He said he liked that rifle because it was short and quick for running shots and he was very accurate with it.

303Guy

Offline 303Guy

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2007, 08:04:53 PM »
......over 1000 elephant were killed with a 7x57 and 6x57  with ball ammo D.W.M.Bell did it !....
....  One also must accept that a native living off the land is always hunting !

I think that was a 6.5x58 Portuguese Mauser.  (Which I always thought was a 6.5x57 - until now).   Bell also used a 303 with 215 RN solids on elephant.  (Apparently, the 174gr 7mm mauser solids would actually exit the elephant's head!)

It is an interesting take on the native living off the land.  Absolutely true!  (Maybe that's why they always appear happy)? ;)

Offline 303Guy

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2007, 08:42:00 PM »
Krochus, he was obviously talking about those two bullets specifically, the .35 Rem 200  and the .30-30 170.  Of course a match bullet with 4x the weight and 2x the BC will have more energy at any range....but that wasn't the subject here was it?  ::).

Ballistic coefficient of 170gr 30-30 bullet  0.304
Ballistic coefficient of 200gr 35 Rem bullet  0.270

Both cartridges have similar muzzle velocities, so I should expect little difference at 300 yds, with the 30-30 being slightly faster but the 35 Rem being heavier.  The differences are (very approx); 30-30 1400 fps, 1010 ft-lbs, 35 Rem 1200 fps, 870 ft-lbs,   

So, yes, the 30-30 does have higher energy at 300 yds.

303Guy

  ???(I knew that!) ???

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2007, 05:14:19 AM »
Bell , most likely used what was aval. and cheap !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 303Guy

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2007, 10:31:41 PM »
Wow - first buffalo I hear that falls from a heart lung shot on the spot - but then again I haven't
hunt one before. I wasn't even with when one was hunted.
You know, I'm going to have to check on that 'going down on the spot'.  I always thought that was what he said.  Of course, these buff were resting at the time.

303Guy

I Have finally been able to 'catch up' with my Dad.  He never told me before and I never asked but that buffalo was a heart shot and it walked about 50yds.  No bones were hit so the bullet passed right through.  The second buffalo had a broken shoulder bone from the same bullet.  My Dad says that usually an animal will not go down immediately with a heart shot.  He also says that the 35 Remington is a "Damn good gun" and that  his Dad liked it and hunted a lot with it.

303Guy

Offline NYHunter

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2007, 04:33:08 AM »
???

  Does this make any sense? The 30-30 LeverEvolution has more energy at 300 yards than the .35 Rem. LeverEvolution ?   Why would anyone chose a .35 Rem over a 30-30,  considering the ballistic superiority of the 30-30 ?

These are not 300 yd. rounds as we all know.  The .35 = a bigger hole = better blood trail = no lost game. Within they're range, 150 -200 yds I'll choose the .35 every time.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2007, 10:32:21 AM »
One might consider the % of shots that will hit a 6 inch kill zone in the field at a known 300 yd deer much less if distance is a guess ! I love the old 30/30 but like my old truck , ya got to be reasonable and not over extend it !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Spanky

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2007, 01:21:21 PM »
The simple fact is that either one of these rounds will put game down with a WELL PLACED shot in the boiler room. Placement counts more than anything whether it is 3 yds. or 300 yds.

Spanky

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 30-30 has more energy than a .35 Rem LeverEvolution at 300 yards ?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2007, 10:34:22 AM »
One might consider the % of shots that will hit a 6 inch kill zone in the field at a known 300 yd deer much less if distance is a guess ! I love the old 30/30 but like my old truck , ya got to be reasonable and not over extend it !

Hitting may not be as much of a problem, depending on the particular rifle and the skill of the shooter.

Yesterday my hunting buddy and I were plinking the 500-yard steel plate (about 10-1/2” wide by 14” high) with our Marlin .30-30’s and handloads – his a 150g Speer and mine a 170g Nosler Partition.  The plate was freshly painted orange and was laying on the dirt embankment so we could easily see where our shots hit using either rifle scopes or my spotting scope.

OK, we didn’t get any hits.  Dave came darn close several times (less than 6”) even though he was using factory iron sights and aiming WAY high – so high that he could no longer see the target as it was obscured by the barrel.  I was using a Leupold 2-7x and was placing the crosshairs about 9’ over the target.  My shots were consistently missing low but again by less than 6”. 

The one time I was at the NRA’s Whittington Center I was shooting my Marilns in .45-70 and .375 Win at the 500-meter rams.  Of the last 10 shots taken, 5 with each rifle, 8 toppled a ram – 4 with each rifle.   I shoot at clay pigeons at 300 yards often enough with the .30-30 that I wouldn’t bet money on a miss, even though they are less common than hits.

This is not a recommendation to try such shots at game, just an observation that hitting is not necessarily the problem. 
Coyote Hunter
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