Author Topic: Good Deer Drive Gun (Read 4086 times)

jasonprox700 · « **on:** July 02, 2007, 09:56:03 AM »

I have been looking at getting a auto for deer drives. My scoped bolt .280 is a little hard to use when the shots get long at 100 feet. I originally wanted to get an AR-10, but they are kind of heavy. Which brand and model do you guys recommend for me? I would like to get a gun that is semi-auto, lightweight, short overall length, reliable, and somewhat accurate. I would like to get it in a .308. What do you think?

Stan in SC · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2007, 01:41:03 PM »

Believe me I fully realize how pumped up you can get on a drive.Having said that I would offer the opinion that you don't need,in the interest of both sportsmanship AND safety ,to be spraying a lot of high powered rounds.If you can't hit a moving deer with a rifle get a shotgun and use buckshot.
Please understand that I am not trying to be insulting or condescending,just stating fact.Too quick a shot equals a wounded never found deer.Too much lead flying around is just plain unsafe for all concerned.

Stan

jy951 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2007, 03:05:44 PM »

saiga .308 comes to mind. or you can spend alot more on a browning, benelli, etc. i don't think many semi .308 are very light.

Rick Teal · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2007, 03:45:25 PM »

When dogging, I like something light and quick handling. The gun I've been using for this for a while now is my BLR in .358 Win. These guns can be had in other chamberings such as .308 and .243. I think an SKS with a sporting stock would make an excellent dogging gun.

When watching I can go to a heavier gun, and then I use my BAR in .308. In a gun that heavy, the .308 has very little felt recoil, and is a real pleasure to shoot.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2007, 04:00:33 PM »

I bought an AR-15 in 6.8 SPC for just that purpose. One shot per deer, sometimes 2 or 3 deer down for the count, with my M1A, but it is heavy. So out comes the AR-15. Very light in the carbine configuration. Some 458 cartridges available in an AR-15 also. I put a Bushnell Holo sight on my AR for fast deer/target acquisition.

Cheese

firstshot · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2007, 08:37:16 AM »

Get yourself a Rem 7600 Pump in 308. I've got one in 7mm-08 and love it. I've got a 3-9x40 Burris Ballistic Plex reticle on it for field work, but I've got Leupold quick release rings on it and can quickly switch to my red dot sight for close range woods work or deer drives.

firstshot
-------------------------------------------------
Make your first shot count!

targshooter · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2007, 02:25:30 AM »

jasonprox700,
I like the Remington Model 7400 Carbine in .30-06. I use the 220 grain bullet and this has not failed me. The heavy bullet has good sectional density and gets through brush as well as can be expected. The rifle is accurate enough (good for 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards), short, points well with a scope and has acceptable balance for quick offhand shots.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:31:00 AM »

Quote from: Stan in SC on July 02, 2007, 01:41:03 PM

Believe me I fully realize how pumped up you can get on a drive.Having said that I would offer the opinion that you don't need,in the interest of both sportsmanship AND safety ,to be spraying a lot of high powered rounds.If you can't hit a moving deer with a rifle get a shotgun and use buckshot.
Please understand that I am not trying to be insulting or condescending,just stating fact.Too quick a shot equals a wounded never found deer.Too much lead flying around is just plain unsafe for all concerned.

Stan

If I could use buckshot, I would. But I live in Wisconsin where it is illegal to use it, so that's out of the question.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:37:19 AM »

Quote from: targshooter on July 04, 2007, 02:25:30 AM

jasonprox700,
I like the Remington Model 7400 Carbine in .30-06. I use the 220 grain bullet and this has not failed me. The heavy bullet has good sectional density and gets through brush as well as can be expected. The rifle is accurate enough (good for 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards), short, points well with a scope and has acceptable balance for quick offhand shots.

How is recoil on that? One of the reasons I chose .308 is because of recoil for quicker target acquisition for the second shot (if needed). If they were pretty close, I would probably opt for .30-06.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:52:00 AM »

We drive dogs , the guns most used are 12 ga shotguns ( when turkey's are in ) , slug guns (in counties that require shotguns , when turkey's are not in ) then rugers autos in 44mag. and mini-30's , any light fast gun will work !

targshooter · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2007, 03:35:26 AM »

jasonprox700,
I use a semi-auto in heavy woods, where shots are usually within 100 feet. I do this because there is only the sound of the shot, no subsequent discernible action cycling noise. I have had the experience that deer often freeze or do not react to a rifle shot. What gets them moving is the sound of the action cycling. In the heavy brush, twigs and trees deflect or absorb otherwise good shots, and with the semi-auto a second shot has resulted in a kill, whereas I have never had this luxury with my bolts or levers. I have found that sectional density relates directly to the ability of the bullet to penetrate brush, thus the 220 grain .30-06 bullets versus the low sectional density bullets of the .44 Mag Ruger Deerfield I own, my favorite for walking logging trails in open woods.
The recoil of the .30-06 is minimal in my opinion, but any rifle recoils so that you must wait for recovery to shoot that second shot, and a .308 vs. an 06 would be a moot difference IMO. Again, the semi-auto has no disruptive cycle activity subsequent to the shot and thus does not add to recovery time as a manually operated firearm does. This lack of cycling motion and no noise adds to the possibility of a second aimed shot following a missed first shot IMO.

Landngroove · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2007, 12:46:47 PM »

Quote from: targshooter on July 04, 2007, 02:25:30 AM

jasonprox700,
I like the Remington Model 7400 Carbine in .30-06. I use the 220 grain bullet and this has not failed me.

I have heard that in a .30-06 semi auto rifle, that 180 grain, and heavier bullets are hard on the action, due to the heavier recoil, and to stick with using 150, and 165 grain bullets. As I shoot both a 7400, and a 742, in .30-06, and handload, this interests me. I have been loading 165's. I would like your opinion on this, and others who read this, who use the heavier bullets.

buffermop · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:46:46 PM »

USE A SHOTGUN WITH BUCK SHOT.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2007, 05:39:01 PM »

Targshooter,

You make some very good points about the value of the semi auto. The lack of noise and motion relating to the second shot is a good one and has been recognized by military snipers the world over for many years. But in my case the second shot is often for a second deer since I am not "spraying" bullets. Sometimes a third shot is required for a third deer.

Cheese

NYH1 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2007, 06:10:57 PM »

Quote from: buffermop on July 05, 2007, 01:46:46 PM

USE A SHOTGUN WITH BUCK SHOT.

He can't.

Quote from: jasonprox700 on July 05, 2007, 01:31:00 AM

If I could use buckshot, I would. But I live in Wisconsin where it is illegal to use it, so that's out of the question.

targshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2007, 02:23:55 AM »

Landngroove,
I have used 220 grain bullets in my 7400 exclusively. I have put about 500 rounds through it and have seen no evidence of excessive wear or performance degradation.

Rick Teal · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2007, 08:01:48 AM »

Landngroove:

That truism came from military guns like the Garand and M14. Apparently these guns were set up to shoot 150 grain ammo, and the op-rods could be bent when using heavier ammo. Modern hunting autos like the BAR and Remingtons are designed with the knowledge that heavier bullets would be used, and heavier bullets are no harder on the guns than lighter bullets.

NYHunter · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2007, 04:59:16 AM »

Do the 220 grn. bullets actually get through brush better? How's the expansion on deer sized game?

NYHunter · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:02:45 AM »

For a semi-auto for a deer drive you might look at the Rem. 750 Carbine in .308. Only carbine, semi-auto or pump, offered by Remington in .308.

wi-deerhunter · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:50:12 AM »

Yo Wisconsin guy.. I'm from Wisconsin too.. I use Remington 750 semi auto in .308 WIN carbine w/ iron sights. Very easy to handle in thick woods and bushes. I shot at running deer last year and took her down. I believe Remington autoloader are designed for deer drive in woods. I hunt up in Ladysmith, WI.. Its in Rusk County.

Mike103 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2007, 12:50:33 PM »

For years I used my 7400 rifle in 30-06. I have a 3X9 Nikon with the Warn removable/ return to zero scope mounts. When we did drives I just took off the scope and put it in my pocket.

Now I have the 7600 carbine in 35 Remington. It has a 2X7 Nikon with the see thru scope mount.

Never thought about the sound of working the action.

MIKE.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 11, 2007, 01:27:25 AM »

Quote from: Mike103 on July 10, 2007, 12:50:33 PM

For years I used my 7400 rifle in 30-06. I have a 3X9 Nikon with the Warn removable/ return to zero scope mounts. When we did drives I just took off the scope and put it in my pocket.

I like the idea with your scope. I thought about doing that too. Another thing I thought about was a red dot scope. I like those a lot, but it would be nice to have at least one deer gun with open sights (Kind of a novelty thing). That and the inlaws (who do nothing but deer drives) give my father and I a lot of grief about scopes.

NYHunter · « **Reply #22 on:** July 11, 2007, 06:41:34 AM »

Quote from: Mike103 on July 10, 2007, 12:50:33 PM

Never thought about the sound of working the action.

MIKE.

If you chamber another round quickly the sound from the shot itself should last long enough to mask any sound from working the action.
Unless you're not used to using a pump.

flintlock · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11, 2007, 10:42:43 AM »

This is one of those situations that you need to go and and handle alot of different guns and see which ones come up to the shoulder best for you...Myself, I don't care for the Remington semi rifles, just don't balance well and are heavy...Which brings up another point, how much will you carry the gun??? The Ruger in 44 Mag I would expect to be fairly light, but I don't know how well it balances...A good lever action 30-30 or 35 Rem is a hard gun to beat if you carry alot...Even though you can't use buckshot, have you considered a slug shotgun, there stocks are made for wing shooting, I have a Remington 1100 that will group foster slugs into a 1 1/2 inch group at 50 yards, and its devastating on deer....

Another thought...My brother has a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08...Its a light weight quick handling gun...I personally don't like such a short gun because I'm 6ft 5...It just feels too short....But I can tell you, I have shot running deer with my bolt action .243 with a Leupold 3x9x40...I can cycle the bolt plenty fast by not taking the gun from my shoulder...Here in NC, where the neighbors run dogs, I have used this gun to down several running deer....They run through my property and its the only way to teach those good old boys a lesson....Now, I'm shooting from a tower or a tree stand, so all shots are down to the ground so its pretty safe....Point being, if the gun fits you properly and the scope is set up properly then you can be fast enough with a bolt gun and a scope and a short action like the 7mm-08 or the .308 will do the job...

Mike103 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 11, 2007, 04:36:33 PM »

Quote from: NYHunter on July 11, 2007, 06:41:34 AM

Quote from: Mike103 on July 10, 2007, 12:50:33 PM

Never thought about the sound of working the action.

MIKE.

If you chamber another round quickly the sound from the shot itself should last long enough to mask any sound from working the action.
Unless you're not used to using a pump.

Oh I can work a pump

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** July 12, 2007, 10:02:05 AM »

Gee the books and articles i read said they used a bolt gun so the ejected case wouldn't give them away !
a metal object flying thru. the air turning at different angles to the sun and reflecting sun light might look like a light on a police car in some cases .

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** July 12, 2007, 10:11:37 AM »

My last post was to offer a different point of view , not p--s anyone off !
Quite a few countries do in fact use a simiauto , rumor has it the USA is looking into or is testing one , not for the noise but because the counter snipers on the other side shoot anyone with a bolt gun !
seems like no gun is perfect !

30-30man · « **Reply #27 on:** July 12, 2007, 11:33:38 AM »

Driving deer with a high powered rifle just doesn't make sense even with a semi. Too many chances you'd hit a house or a buddy that you didn't see. Remember some cartridges can go up to 5 miles. I'd go with a slug gun and remove the plug if buckshot was illegal. A good Rem 870 or Mossberg 835 would do. If that doesn't do it for you, I'd suggest a .357 or 45lc leveraction rifle. High powered rifles should not be fired without backstops at gound level, it's just too dangerous. In a stand, you are shooting toward the ground. I would not allow it on my place but that's my opinion and my land. In SC, we drive deer ( dogs) from Aug-Jan but nobody ever uses a rifle. You'd be sent back to the truck and told to go home. That law needs to changed. Buckshot is very capable of killing deer up to 60+yards. Most of the deer I harvest ever year come from using buckshot. It is perfect for deer drives.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** July 13, 2007, 04:17:06 AM »

WE also drive dogs and use rifles , shotguns and handguns ! our land is hilly and we hunt large tracks , safety is an issue ,as with any hunting but we have addressed it successfully for over 30 years now .

NYHunter · « **Reply #29 on:** July 13, 2007, 06:57:14 AM »

Quote from: 30-30man on July 12, 2007, 11:33:38 AM

Driving deer with a high powered rifle just doesn't make sense even with a semi. Too many chances you'd hit a house or a buddy that you didn't see. Remember some cartridges can go up to 5 miles. I'd go with a slug gun and remove the plug if buckshot was illegal. A good Rem 870 or Mossberg 835 would do. If that doesn't do it for you, I'd suggest a .357 or 45lc leveraction rifle. High powered rifles should not be fired without backstops at gound level, it's just too dangerous. In a stand, you are shooting toward the ground. I would not allow it on my place but that's my opinion and my land. In SC, we drive deer ( dogs) from Aug-Jan but nobody ever uses a rifle. You'd be sent back to the truck and told to go home. That law needs to changed. Buckshot is very capable of killing deer up to 60+yards. Most of the deer I harvest ever year come from using buckshot. It is perfect for deer drives.

I think if a group just follows good common sense and hunts safely there shouldn't be any issues. You shouldn't be hunting near houses, the hunting party should be wearing safety orange, and if you hunt with a semi-auto you shouldn't be trigger happy. As we all know shooting accurately is key, not seeing how fast one can empty his gun. Just my .02.