Handi-rifle barrel on a shotgun frame.......WARNING

[Dieselbuilder]

A few weeks ago, I traded a muzzleloader for $200 and what I was told was a .223 Handi-rifle with a hand made forearm. When I picked it up, this is what it looked like:


Not knowing anything about Handi-rifles, I found this forum and posted about the rifle. Shortly thereafter I received a message from quickdtoo telling me that the rifle wasn't safe to fire as it had been built on a shotgun frame that couldn't stand the pressure and he was deleting my post for safety reasons.

Since I made a profit on the cash portion of the trade, I wasn't out anything on the deal, however he piqued my curiosity about the rifle so I decided to experiment.

I took the rifle out in the hills on my brothers ranch, fastened it down to the table I use for a bench, loaded it, tied the string on the trigger and got back about 20 feet.

Pulled the string, round went bang. Ok, no big deal, I walk up to it and notice that the hammer is recocked  and smoke is coming from the receiver. On closer inspection, I don't know if the firing pin was too long and pierced the primer, or if the shotgun pin was too big around, but the primer blew out where the firing pin hole was and blew the firing pin out of the receiver, recocking the hammer and putting a nice little scar in the scope when it ricocheted off the hammer. 

Thanks to quickdtoo's warning, I was prepared and took precautions about shooting it, however if the person I got it from had shot it(he had gotten it from whoever put it together and hadn't had a chance to shoot it), or anyone else not informed and not taking precautions and just shot it normally there could have been dire consequenses.
So for anyone thinking of putting one of these Handi-rifle barrels on a shotgun frame, new or old, I have only one thing to say......
  DON'T DO IT!!!

[quickdtoo]

Dieselbuilder,

Thanks for posting your personal experience, we appreciate you taking the time to share it, hopefully it will "enlighten" those that are considering it, or those that already have rifle barrels on shotgun frames.

Tim

[Ireload2]

I don't about the shotgun Handis but another old line brand of US made break open shotguns had an inertia firing pin with a rebounding hammer.
The firing pin is totally unsupported by the hammer when the gun fires. A sure way to have trouble with a high pressure round.

[trotterlg]

The older H&R's are built with the rebounding hammer type of action.  Larry

[Mitch in MI]

I think the big shotgun firing pin had an equally big hole in the receiver to pass through, and the primer blew through the hole.
What is that, a model 158?

When conducting this sort of test, I like to stick the buttstock in an old car tire, and run the string around something behind the gun, while I stand well to the back and the side, I wouldn't want to stand directly behind the gun.

[quickdtoo]

The frame was a 1940 H&R.

Tim

[trotterlg]

I would be curious to know if it sheared off the pin that holds in the fireing pin or if it was of a vintage that it had a set screw holding the fireing pin in.  Larry

[Dieselbuilder]

When conducting this sort of test, I like to stick the buttstock in an old car tire, and run the string around something behind the gun, while I stand well to the back and the side, I wouldn't want to stand directly behind the gun.

I was behind my pickup!  ran the string under the back.

[Dieselbuilder]

I would be curious to know if it sheared off the pin that holds in the fireing pin or if it was of a vintage that it had a set screw holding the fireing pin in.  Larry

It had a set screw coming down from the top of the receiver. I will post more when I get it further tore down. I do know that it ruined something internal also as the hammer does not work properly any more either.

[norman]

O.K guys,, I have a topper 158 20 gauge with the 30-30 bbl.  I have shot the 30-30 and it fired o.k.  Wasn't this sold by H&R as a combo?  I don't want to fire the 30-30 and have it blow up on me.  Please tell me this is a safe gun to shoot.
 

[trotterlg]

A .223 is considerably higher presser than a 30-30 is.  The combo is a safe package.  Larry

[Mac11700]

The combo's are fine to shoot provided that it was sold as a combo..not as a added on barrel to a shotgun frame...H&R's older frames are no where near as strong as what NEF is producing right now..H&R used different steel and heat treated the rifle frames differently than NEF...and is why NEF won't add any of the high pressure barrels on them..For the life of me...I cannot figure out why people have to be so dense on this subject...Why is it that some feel they know so much more than the company does in this...?

I'll say again what Gordon told me a few months ago...People who add high pressure barrels on older H&R frames are walking around with a ticking time bomb in their hands...It not a matter "IF" they will let go...but...... " When"..Those that have done this in the past and gotten lucky with no problems...are just that...Lucky...So be advised...it is not a recommended practice and will never be here...No matter what you have read on other sites or who has told you it was ok to do this...IT ISN'T RECOMMENDED and can lead to injury or worse...Those that choose to go against this advise..do so at their own risk..

I am glad no one was hurt by this being done...but..it is a real shame that a pre-war H&R was ruined by this being done...especially after being told not to do it here......This is what mis-information does...it clouds peoples minds to the truth...Hopefully...this will keep others from doing this and ruining a fine gun..and getting hurt...

Mac

[Dieselbuilder]

I am glad no one was hurt by this being done...but..it is a real shame that a pre-war H&R was ruined by this being done...especially after being told not to do it here......This is what mis-information does...it clouds peoples minds to the truth...Hopefully...this will keep others from doing this and ruining a fine gun..and getting hurt...

Mac

Mac,
This was not a pristeen example, I stated in the post that was removed that the stock had been broken and very badly reglued together.  I got it from another person when all of the modifications had been done to it, and now that I have disassembeled it further, it had been modified with some type of insert in the firing pin channel, so ultimately it was ruined before I ever got it and in retrospect I don't think it would have even been safe shooting as a shotgun any longer.

It had no value any longer other than an experiment and example of why it should not be done. I will not apologize for what I did, and if by what I have done keeps just one person from taking a "complete and pristeen" example apart to do these types  of modifications, it will have been worth it to me.

I have a collection of Iver Johnson Champion single shot shotguns in .410, 16 and 12 gauges (still looking for a 20) so I do understand your comment, however I restate, that it had been modified and no longer had the collector value it would have had if it had been unaltered.

[trotterlg]

Wonder if this was on an older muzzel loader frame?  They had a really large flat fireing pin, the hole for it is larger than a small rifle primer is, that would have been a sure path to a big problem.  Larry