Which powder for 44 mag?

[handirifle]

If you could use only one powder for the 44 magnum, that would give the most accuracy and velocity, across the majority of bullet weights, what would it be?

[Lloyd Smale]

couldnt do it but if i had to it would probably be aa9 or 2400

[LaOtto222]

 I would hate to be limited to 1 powder but if I were...I would start with H 110 for jacketed and Unique for lead.

[HL]

WW296 or H110 for Jacket and lead.

[Questor]

Handirifle:

If it was only one powder, I'd use 2400 because it is suitable for both full power loads and for reduced target loads. For 2400 see recent Speer data which favors standard primers over magnum primers for this powder.

296 and H110 are for full power loads only. 

[LaOtto222]

Handirifle:

If it was only one powder, I'd use 2400 because it is suitable for both full power loads and for reduced target loads. For 2400 see recent Speer data which favors standard primers over magnum primers for this powder.

296 and H110 are for full power loads only. 

You are correct about 2400 being more versatile and I like the powder myself. You can and I have used it in the 22 Hornet, 357 and 44 mag among others. He was asking what would give him the most velocity and accuracy, I assumed he meant full power loads. I threw in the unique, just because I like it so well for shootin' lead (lower power), but not for jacketed bullets. I have never personally used H110, I have used WW296 for my full power loads, but I think H110 will get a little more velocity across a wider range of bullet weights. As far as accuracy is concerned, that is an individual gun thing. He also did not state if it was for a handgun or a rifle, I assumed it was handgun. I have heard rumors that Lil'gun is a good straight walled case powder, but have no data or personal experience with it.

[Old Syko]

Very seldom do max velocity and max accuracy go hand in hand.  I opt for the 2400 due to it's being more versatile in the 44.  It works well with cast as well as jackets and hot or tame loads which gives you a larger margin when looking for accuracy.

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont know if I agree with that statement or not. Some of the best accuracy i get out of handguns is with full power loads. The trick to the hole thing is matching your target velocity with the burning rate of the powder to be used and matching that powder with the proper primer and proper bullet. (weight alloy ect) If your using a powder that is to slow or to fast for the barrel length and pressure your using your powder at it can effect accuracy. Take say a 4 inch n frame to get full power accurte loads with at 240 it may take a powder burning rate simular to aa9 to get the same peak pressures in an 8 inch gun it may take something like h110. Those are just examples. Now to get that bullet moving properly and to make sure the powder is giving peak pressure where it is needed to give optimum accuracy you may need a primer that is hotter or cooler. You may need a firmer or losser crimp. You may need an alloy that is harder or softer to increase or decrease bullet weight. Theres just to many variables in loading to make a statement accross the board that the best accuracy doesnt come with full power loads. Give me enough time and material and ill get optimum accuracy at any velocity level.

[HL]

The cast bullets I shoot at high velocity are more accurate than jacketed, with less pressure.

Of course he didn't state whether it's hard cast or soft. Mine, for target shooting, are always heat treated.

[Lloyd Smale]

Im not a big fan of heat treated bullets either. If there water dropped out of a mold they will wont be consistant enough in hardness due to the differnt temp each bullet falls out of the mold at and into the water. If there oven treated the hardness will be constant but it will also be so hard as to be brittle and bullets will fracture on bone. In all the penetration testing weve done ive yet to see a lineotype bullet fracture at any speed but ive seen a pile of heat treated bullets fail. If your going to heat treat wws make sure you add at least 3 percent tin preferably 5 percent  to it or ill about guarantee fracturing.  Best way to get desired hardness is by the old fashion way. Alloying. I make up batches of alloy in 100lb lots and lable them and keep them seperate even from other lots of the same alloy. If you want a real eye opener just hardness check a couple differnt batches of lineotype and see how much they very. Ive had them go anywhere from 18bhn to 28bhn. You will never get consistant bullets using mixture rates with an alloy like that. Ive seen more problems with accuracy in bullets that varied a couple points on the hardness scale then i have it bullets out of the same batch that vary 5 grains up or down in weight. All this being said i do believe in hard bullets. A bullet that bumps up to fit a gun is no longer a bullet the same shape as it strated and is nothing but basicaly a blob of lead now. If your gun demands softer bullets to bump up to fit it. FIX YOUR GUN! IVe yet to see a good gun shoot a softer bullet better then a harder bullet at any velocity.

[Davemuzz]

If you could use only one powder for the 44 magnum, that would give the most accuracy and velocity, across the majority of bullet weights, what would it be?

Vihtavuori N-110. Easy to meter. Clean burning. Exceptionally accurate. I worked up a bunch of loads for my Smith 629 44 mag using 2400 and H-110. I just wasn't happy with the groups so I read an on line post from a fellow who said it was the best thing since sliced bread. I took a chance (this was 3 years ago) as back then you could only get it in 2lb containers at $40. I figured if I didn't like it, I'd be lookin at that $40 on the shelf for sometime. But I worked up some loads and found the my 629 likes it a lot.

The following is the results from a 100 yard target, off a fixed rest from a bench. In the target on the right, I was adjusting the scope, so I have 2 different "groups".

[Lone Star]

Im not a big fan of heat treated bullets either. If there water dropped out of a mold they will wont be consistant enough in hardness due to the differnt temp each bullet falls out of the mold at and into the water.

I shot a lot of 40s on the long range IHMSA course using 165-grain RCBS bullets quenched out of the mould, fired in .30 Herretts and .30 Carbines.  I also won several CBA postal BR matches with other bullets quenched out of the mould - 0.5 moa groups too.  I won't hold it against you for not being a fan of this technique - but done right it works just fine.  I've also used the oven to heat treat bullets, and you are in control of how hard you make them.  The two rifle bullets I used on deer didn't seem to fragment, both gave complete penetration - who cares if they lost a little weight or not.

As for a single powder for the .44 Magnum - BlueDot of course.  High velocity or low it burns well, no magnum primers or heavy crimps needed, it gives lower recoil and barrel temperatures, and it is just as high velocities as most of the slower powders with most bullets.   


.

[Lloyd Smale]

lonestar you are right about deer. Its pretty tough to get a bullet to fracture on a deer. Its tough enought to get a jacketed bullet to even expand on one. IVe got about a lb of a blue dot left in a jug here thats about 15 years old. I dont use it anymore it handguns. Its a finiky powder i my experiences with it. I will give great accuracy but takes a little more load developement as it seems to have a much smaller pressure range then most powders as to getting precise accuarcy and when trying to use it for magnum level loads it can be very pressure tempermental with some combinations and go from mild pressure signs to flattened primmers and sticky extraction with just a 1/2 grain increase in charge weights and on the top end has allways given me inconsistant chronograph readings. Another powder that is not a powder to fool with without a chrono is lil gun. It does some strange things in certain combinations. Neither are a powder to recomend a beginning handguner use to make up magnum loads. Something like 110 is alot more forgiving. In recomending a powder on here I guess a guy should look at the fact that not everyone here is an experineced handloader and that most beginning handloaders have it in there minds that they want powerful ammo. Im as guitly as the next about recomending what i really like without that being taken into account. For the most part if you want mag level 44s 110 is the go to powder. It may not be my favorite but its hard to get in trouble with, gives great velocitys and accuracy and is clean burning. If your scale is off a grain it wont blow your gun up and theres probably not anohter mag pistol powder that gives more velocity with less pressure.

[Davemuzz]

I find the H-110 can be erratic when it's loaded on the lower end of the recommended recipe.

When I load with Vihtavuori N-110, the low end is not erratic. Also, the powder fills up the case so it's easy to determine visually if it appears that you have the correct amount of powder in the case, when comparing one case to the next.

Ok, enough cheerleading for me.


Dave

[Larry Gibson]

To answer the question given your stated criteria of; "that would give the most accuracy and velocity, across the majority of bullet weights"

As previously noted for the most accuracy and highest velocity H110 answers the question.

Larry Gibson

[Davemuzz]

To answer the question given your stated criteria of; "that would give the most accuracy and velocity, across the majority of bullet weights"

As previously noted for the most accuracy and highest velocity H110 answers the question.

Larry Gibson

Ghee Larry, not according to my math on the velocity:

From the Hodgdon web site:             240 GR. NOS JHP    H110   24.0   1522fps
From the Vihtavuori Reloading guide:   240 JTC-Sil Hornady N110  22.1    1541fps

In fact, when you "stack up" the published loads of N-110 as compared to H-110, 60% of the N-110 published loads velocity exceed the H-110 published velocity across all bullet weights when comparing published weights.

And for the life of me, I can't determine how you could possibly say that H-110 would be the most accurate powder that could be shot out of all 44 magnums. Every gun on the face of the planet is different and each gun "likes what it likes". Granted, there are a whole bunch of guns that will shoot their best with H-110. But I doubt that is the majority.

Dave.

[warrior1]

there are a bunch of fine powders out there for the 44 mag,but the three i come back to are h110,blue dot, and 2400. for me if given the choice for one i'd probably go for 2400.

[Blackhawk44]

2400.  While you may not get the very last FPS, its far more forgiving (especially on the lower end) than most magnum powders, doesn't have the blast and concussion of 110/296, less sensitive to pressure spikes than top end Unique/Blue Dot/Lil Gun loads.  Likes standard primers.  Useful in both long and short barrels.