The Texan and the spanish language

[Dee]

Apparently the state reps in my state of Texas have just passed a bill making it MANDATORY for ALL SCHOOLS to teach spanish to our children and grandchildren. Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchens is in an up-roar and rightfully so, stating that it is the first step in CHANGING the language of Texas, and the rest of the U.S. from ENGLISH to spanish, by the sneaky tactic of increments.
I would whole heartedly agree. I for one believe that our leadership has turned the volume off of our voice as THE PEOPLE, and are ignorantly pushing this state (TEXAS) and the rest of the United States into a more phyiscal CONFRONTATION, with our southern neighbors and our own government for that matter.
They are, by small, and sometimes, not so small, increments, INJECTING, the forigien IDEAL down our PATRIOTIC THROATS, while at the same time IGNORING what we "THE PEOPLE" are telling them.
But then again, PERHAPS, I am just an "old fogie fuedist".

[rockbilly]

Dee.  Where are you getting your information on this?   I know that it was addresses a while back, but was not aware that a bill had been signed into law.

[Dee]

It was on Fox news about 45 minutes ago.

[powderman]

It was on Fox news about 45 minutes ago.

What a crock. I thought that Texas was still a part of the United States. This is America, we speak ENGLISH here. Learn it, speak it, or LEAVE. POWDERMAN. 

[victorcharlie]

Apparently the state reps in my state of Texas have just passed a bill making it MANDATORY for ALL SCHOOLS to teach spanish to our children and grandchildren. Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchens is in an up-roar and rightfully so, stating that it is the first step in CHANGING the language of Texas, and the rest of the U.S. from ENGLISH to spanish, by the sneaky tactic of increments.
I would whole heartedly agree. I for one believe that our leadership has turned the volume off of our voice as THE PEOPLE, and are ignorantly pushing this state (TEXAS) and the rest of the United States into a more phyiscal CONFRONTATION, with our southern neighbors and our own government for that matter.
They are, by small, and sometimes, not so small, increments, INJECTING, the forigien IDEAL down our PATRIOTIC THROATS, while at the same time IGNORING what we "THE PEOPLE" are telling them.
But then again, PERHAPS, I am just an "old fogie fuedist".

Man Dee, I'm with you on this one.  I'd vote for change if I knew who to vote for.....

[Brett]

It was on Fox news about 45 minutes ago.

What a crock. I thought that Texas was still a part of the United States. This is America, we speak ENGLISH here. Learn it, speak it, or LEAVE. POWDERMAN. 

Unless I'm mistaken the United States has no Government sanctioned "official national language" so anyone is free to speak whatever they want.  Just the thing for national unity don't you think?  It also means that once any minority group becomes the majority they could conceivably push for a law that would make their language the national language.  How many Mexicans is the government wanting to give US citizenship status to again?  I'm guessing that within 10 years you had better habla Espanol.    When will we be pushed to far?

[Dee]

Brett just a few hours south of here on the TEX-MEX border, there are towns NOW, that are on the U.S. side of the border where Mex is the language. It, I am afraid will not change until Americans have had enough and FORCE the change. It has happened before, it has just been a couple hundred years ago. The government is not listening, and will not. It has become a country, for the government and by the government, and NOT the people. We the people are more interested in NASCAR, the NFL, bass boats, and fresh batteries in the TV remote. We have slept too long it think, and have let someone else run our business while we PLAYED.
Play time is over in the very near future I think. The Bible says; when I became a man, I put away childish things. It's time to put them away, and start paying attention to what's going on in our country.

[rockbilly]

Dee.  We as Americans are victims to our own selfish needs.  In all probability, your house was built by a large portion of illegals, particularly the roof, cement and tile work.  The salad you had for dinner was likely planted and harvested by illegals.  We have stood by blindly contributing to our own comfort, allowing them to slip in at alarming rates.

As you may have witnessed from my previous post, I am very opposed to illegal immigration, but at the same time am aware that we need a certain number of them to provide for the life style we enjoy.  Had our leaders not turned their backs, and established a workable temporary worker program years ago we wouldn't be where we are today.  At this point it will be very difficult to totally eliminate all of the illegals, some areas (LA, Houston, Atlanta, Chicago for example) have so many rooted into their society that it would be near impossible to rid American of them.  And of course, there are areas, like LA where there are Mexican mayors that welcome a Mexican takeover.

We need to continue to push our congressmen and senators for law enforcement and a guest worker program so this can be checked now.   Left alone, by the year 2015 we will all be speaking Spanish.

[DDelle338]

Dee.  We as Americans are victims to our own selfish needs.  In all probability, your house was built by a large portion of illegals, particularly the roof, cement and tile work.  The salad you had for dinner was likely planted and harvested by illegals.  We have stood by blindly contributing to our own comfort, allowing them to slip in at alarming rates.

As you may have witnessed from my previous post, I am very opposed to illegal immigration, but at the same time am aware that we need a certain number of them to provide for the life style we enjoy.  Had our leaders not turned their backs, and established a workable temporary worker program years ago we wouldn't be where we are today.  At this point it will be very difficult to totally eliminate all of the illegals, some areas (LA, Houston, Atlanta, Chicago for example) have so many rooted into their society that it would be near impossible to rid American of them.  And of course, there are areas, like LA where there are Mexican mayors that welcome a Mexican takeover.

We need to continue to push our congressmen and senators for law enforcement and a guest worker program so this can be checked now.   Left alone, by the year 2015 we will all be speaking Spanish.

  I guess I am about as anti-illeagal as anyone here and so I have to dis agree with one part of your statement:
      "but at the same time am aware that we need a certain number of them to provide for the life style we enjoy"
I think that is B.S. We DON"T need them here! For anything! Period! That statement is one that would come from someone who, as DEE states, is more interested in NASCAR or the NFL. Need more batteries for your remote? Grab your english/spanish dictionary, your currency pesos exchange rate calculator and head on up to the local tienda de comestibles, almacén.

[Brett]

Don't tell me we need a bunch of illegal invaders to work menial jobs when we have hundreds of thousands of capable workers on welfare. Send all the illegals home.  Then kick the welfare leeches, who are capable of working but won't, of the taxpayers teat and let them go to work to support themselves, as they should, and the problem is solved.  If we all have to pay a dollar more for a head of lettuce at the grocery store but save some $30 million a year collectively in taxes going toward welfare I think we might just come out ahead, don't you? 

[powderman]

Agreed guys, we can get along quite well without those leaches, and probably pay less taxes that go to suipport them. I'm really fed  up with hearing yabba dabba dooooo all the time. POWDERMAN. 

[magooch]

It's good that I've got TM7 to speak for me, but on this one, has anyone confirmed exactly what is going on?  Fox news might be more reliable than most, but I would still want to know for sure what really happened.

If the state of Texas has actually come off the tracks, then who is really to blame?  Unless the state government has been taken over by Mexico, I think you Texans had better be talkin to your elected reps. and Governor.  I prefer to believe that true Texans will handle the issue--if in fact it is what has been stated.

The law that should be passed is one that would require that any guest worker in this country should be fluent in english and that they learn it before they come here.  The same law should prevent stores and other businesses from posting signs, notices, or anything else in anything, but english.

[rockbilly]

Brett, DDelle 338.  First ,let me state again,  There is likely no one here that is anymore opposed to illegal immigration than I am.  I slipped by writing that "we need a certain number of them."   What I intended to say was, "we need additional workers."

Our economy is currently geared to function with the additional work force, remove it and the economy of America would go down the tubes fast!.   Our total processed food industry is running primarily on the sweat of illegals, without them you may play hell finding a chicken, pork, or beef products in the market.   Just about all of the produce is provided by the illegals.

I strongly support a "guest worker" program where immigration is controlled, and I do not support the use of illegals, but how many Americans are willing to go the market today and find the shelves bare because we do not have the workers to meet our need in processing the food we eat?   What would the absence of immigrant workers do to the construction industry, the service industry, etc.?  My point is, we have pampered ourselves to the point, and our growing economy almost dictates the necessity for immigrant workers.  It is a pipe dream to believe that immigrant workers can be replaced by welfare recipients, the majority of those receiving benefits are incapable of working, and few have the skills necessary to do the jobs immigrants are hired to do.

At this critical time in history, our survival depends on the ability of congress to provide a workable guest worker program, taxing the workers, and making them pay for their own medical care.  Background checks are necessary to weed out the undesirable elements that slip in.  A national ID card, to identify those here legally, and authority of LEO at all levels to detain and turn over to ICE any person not in possession of proper ID.  Employer's found to hire illegals without proper worker documents should be heavily fined, this, coupled with revised procedures to eliminate assistance in legal assistance, and swift action on the part of the courts should eliminate the ILLEGAL problem.   But as the American economy continues to grow, we will continue to need additional workers............you don't have top be a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

[DDelle338]

  Rockbilly:  I'm glad that you did clarify what you meant about needing additional workers to do those jobs currently being done by illegals. But I still don't think we would need guest workers (read; soon to be illegals) to do the work. I have to agree with Brett on the idea of the people currently on wellfare. If you go into the un-employment office or to make a claim for wellfare, you should be "given the opportunity" to work in one of these jobs. If you decide not to take the job, then you are deciding that you don't really need wellfare. Yes, we may have a small, short lived problem trying to get the produce out of the fields and onto store shelves, but I think we will find a way. There is a joke/saying that was started as a racial slur about picking our own damned cotton that really rings true in this situation.
  I have a Brother-in law that is a drywall mechanic, he is constantly being put out of work by the "Guest Workers" in FL. I have two friends right here in PA., one is a drywall mechanic, one is a mason, both these guys get put out of work occasionally by lower bidding companies that use Illegal Guest Workers.
  While I was in The Corps. I spent a whole lot of years in Yuma, AZ. and my wife, being a medical assistant, lost out on many jobs to someone way less qualified for the possition because she did not speak fluent spanish. I was P.Oed then about it, and even more so now! It's just wrong. I don't believe imigration is bad. I don't find any fault in trying to make a better life for yourself. But barging in and demanding to be catered to is just not the way it should be done. Contribute to society don't leech from it.
Fly the American Flag, Speak English, and pull your own weight or keep the Heck out!
  Have a great day everyone.

[Heavy C]

While I oppose illegal immigration just you all I do believe the whole Spanish language thing runs deeper than you might know.  As those of you familiar with Texas history a good portion of Texas was part of Mexico.  The Mexican culture, like it or not, is deeply ingrained in Texas - this includes the Spanish language.  It is frustrating at times when I do go to the Rio Grande Valley that folks use Spanish first and then English.  If I'm not in the mood to speak Spanish I force them to speak English.  They give me dirty looks and do get frustrated with me, but hey we are in America after all.  Even if the U.S. does make the English language the official language I don't see everyone just cutting over to English.

[Dee]

If you look CLOSER into Texas history you will find Mexico's CLAIM of TEXAS, involving them not to be able to SETTLE TEXAS with having less, than 3500 mexican settlers in ALL of Texas at any one time, for the 400 years or so they CLAIMED Texas. That would be like us trying to claim ALL of the Atlantic ocean, as being part of the US, but obviously we could not occupy ANY of it for any length of time in in any numbers. The American CITIZEN was able to do what the mexican COULD NOT DO, and that was subdue the Indian, and ACTUALLY CLAIM Texas. Also the ORGANIZED mexican army could not defeat a bunch of volunteers, for everywhere even though the volunteers were greatly outnumbered. I can claim the lottery, but without the winning ticket, it is just a CLAIM. Texas IS a part of the U.S. though my signature, does not promote this as necessary, and English in my opinion SHOULD BE the CULTURAL LANGUAGE of the country. Other wise, our CULTURE AS AMERICANS will do as it has in other countries, be diluted into nothingness. Just a fellow Texan's way of looking at it. JMHO

[Heavy C]

My point is that at one point Texas was not part of the United States.  Whether Mexico laid claim to it or not there were Mexicans living here - some were part of the volunteer contingent at the Alamo.  I'd be willing to bet they weren't required to speak English. 

[Dee]

I understand your point Heavy C. For that matter Massachusetts wasn't part of the U.S. at the time the U.S. was THOUGHT UP, in some independent thinking individuals. THE POINT in my opinion IS, the U.S. has developed it's own culture, although admittedly it varies across the U.S. The mexican has came into this NEWLY FOUNDED COUNTRY, the last few years and blatantly IGNORES, our culture as AMERICANS, our laws, our space in general. One must draw the line SOMEWHERE. EVERY LEGAL DOCUMENT PRINTED IN THIS COUNTRY NOW HAS TO BE DUPLICATED BY PRINTING IT IN SPANISH, even telephone recordings are done in duplicate. The TAX PAYER IS PAYING FOR ALL OF THIS. IF ENGLISH which is THE PRIMARY LANGUAGE spoken here were mandatory, ENORMOUS savings would be almost immediate, not counting all the TRANSLATORS that are hired as BI LINGUAL EMPLOYEES. That is the crux of the issue. We should NOT HAVE TO CONFORM TO THE OUTSIDER, they should be conforming to us.

[Heavy C]

I see your point.  Until we as Americans demand that English be established as THE official language of this country it would be difficult at best to enforce (for lack of a better word).  Our freedom of speech works against that.  It's not only Mexicans, but just about any other group of immigrants or illegal aliens.  For example, the Bel Air area of Houston has a significant Vietnamese population.  Street signs are in English and Vietnamese.  Right, wrong, or indifferent the problem of non conforming individuals is far worst than we can probably imagine.

[rockbilly]

Any government made up of multiple cultures is destining to fail, think not?  History supports this statement, and indicated that many of the early governments failed because of an influx of persons from other cultures.

America is no different, particularly with the Mexican culture.  They have shown a desire to remain separate, and maintain their own culture.  My thought on this, “If you want to be Mexican so bad, why didn’t you stay in Mexico?” 

There is more to “a better way of life” than having a job.  If they have no plans for the future, no ambitions for their off-spring, and no allegiance to this country, we are surely destined to fail.

[williamlayton]

I think that if a nation/people/organization/society has made or makes claim to any land or ocean they have made it a necessary thing to defend the claim.
It seems we are giving up without a fight. This may be good or bad depending on which side you are on.
Traditionally, and I think this is a defensible argument, the fabled Neuces Strip has moved North. This piece of ground has been hotly contended for by the Mexican since the Texas revolution. Contention has been based on "Old Spanish land grants."
While they may seemingly be a moot point, this land must still be defended---you can't count on anyone who is Mexican to agree to agree that U.S. and Texas law is valid---you have to defend the law you claim to be valid.
NOW, traditionally, the Mexican contingent in this neck of the woods---well, there ain't a lot of woods in this area IMO, I digress---and they have had to be subdued and forced into agreement with the law. Some have done it willingly and others, as the first white settlers did, have simply done it because they were forced.
This population, and not just of recent history, has become more powerful, both politically and in numbers, are taking the law to task and they are, in no small amount, winning the hearts and minds of the locals. They are making a strong defense that they are Mexican and therefore; Mexico.
I think we are giving up this region and are very much in danger of giving up the S/W and allowing Mexico to take it back---Without a fight.
Blessings     

[rockbilly]

Agree.  How many wars have been won (or lost) at the ballot box?

Los Angles should serve a s a reminder to all of those that think the Mexican population can not force their will on America.   The move started so innocent there, the rich brought in laborers to do yard work, construction, and to work in the services industry.  They had children born here, these children, now citizens, voted every benefit possible to the Mexican immigrant.  Today they have a Mexican mayor that has sworn to return Kaliforina to Mexico.

AS I see it, this too is a large problem.  After all didn't they flee Mexico in search of a better life?  Now they want to return to the Mexico style of life by turning the new country into the kind of place the left..  Don't make sense to me!

Gentlemen, there is an answer, we need to get Tom Tancredo elected President.  He is about the only light at the end of the tunnel in the 2008 elections.  Go to his web site and check him out, I think you will find his views parallel many of ours, particularly on gun control, immigration, crime and punishment, welfare, health, as well as the war on terrorism.