Author Topic: Do you think the healthcare system is broken? (Read 6831 times)

Cement Man · « **Reply #60 on:** July 14, 2007, 03:03:55 AM »

There ya go! You da man!

beemanbeme · « **Reply #61 on:** July 14, 2007, 06:04:00 AM »

"extricate" wow! does that mean leave? or get out of? Apparently I feel about Wild and Wonderful West Virginia like you do the United States. Love the state, one of the most beautiful I've visited; can't stand many of the third and fourth generation welfare cheats.

"Retainers" for the sort of sleazebags that live off of the bottomfeeders that sue for malpractice, and on the job injuries, and "back injuries" from minor fender benders, etc. ROTFLMAO. Give me a break. In Tulsa, my wife got rear-ended by a guy driving a caddy of all things and for days we couldn't answer the phone for the sleazebags wanting to "help" us. And the mail. Some of the mail and calls were from stringers. Concerned folks that just happened to hear about her wreak and wanted to tell her about what a good job xxxxx did for them.
Actually, as I pointed out, the lawyer isn't interested in a trial, he wants a nuisance settlement. And even if he gets 50-60% of the final, it's "found money" to the bottom feeder.

Cement Man · « **Reply #62 on:** July 14, 2007, 07:15:11 AM »

TM7,
I was merely asking you to restate where you said I "exposed myself". That can be taken the wrong way. Thanks for restating it per my request. Back to the topic - as you said, Michael Moore may have interviewed others in various countries who like their health care and and have given different comments than presented here. I have personally heard positive comments from foreign friends regarding their health care system - France comes to mind. These acquaintances; however, still prefer the States as the health care system is attached to a whole lot more - socialism and associated costs. Please excuse my hesitancy to regard Michael Moore as a reference source. I've heard it said that he is somewhat biased in his film-making.

30-30man · « **Reply #63 on:** July 14, 2007, 07:32:12 AM »

The only way things are going to change is that the current system continues. It will soon be so overpriced that no one will be able to afford it. I don't care how much anyone in the medical field says how hard they work or the risks/liabilities that are involved; it's just a lame excuse for greed. I never knew a poor doctor or even a nurse for that matter. We have all griped about gas prices, it is the same thing. They know you need their product or services and they charge what the majority of the public can pay with no thought on those who can't. I don't need Michael Moore to tell me that, just look at my doctor bill statements.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #64 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:25:20 AM »

I guess that's a good reason to get to be one of the ones that can afford it.
People bitch about all these foreign doctors. Well, they could be a doctor. 'Course it means they can't drop out of school in the sixth grade and get their 16 year old girl friend pregnant and start stickin' that stuff up their nose or in their arms. Can't buy that new car to tool around in.
Just sign that contract that they'll doctor in some jerk-water rural area for so many years after they're out of school and they're on their way. Same deal with a nurse.
I knew a guy in Memphis that decided he wanted to be a nurse. (and believe me male nurses are in big time demand) He went to one of the big hospitals in Memphis and they sent him to school and payed him a wage while he was in school. He signed a contract to nurse in that hospital for six years after he graduated. The catch was if he didn't all of his tuition, wages, etc was due and payable. He finished with a straight "A" at the head of his class and was approached by another hospital to go to work for them. When he asked about the tuition and such, they paid all that and paid him a bonus to go to work for them.
If you just drop out of school and get a job as a off-bearer at the sawmill, you got no right to be getting married. If you want to screw yourself, that's okay. But it ain't fair to the kids on a whole lot of levels.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #65 on:** July 16, 2007, 02:12:49 AM »

If ya'll agree that the legal system is in part at fault , then the fix would be easy !
If you sue and loose then you have to pay the other side what you sued for ! That would get rid of the bottom feeding ambulance chasers !
Or at least pay the legal fees for the other side and other associated cost !
I believe England works this way .

magooch · « **Reply #66 on:** July 16, 2007, 03:42:34 AM »

The problem isn't with lawsuits, it's the stupid juries. I've sat on a number of juries and wasn't at all impressed with the intelligence, or thought processes of too many of the jurors. They tend to empathize with who they believe are victims and think that making them wealthy is the way to make things right.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #67 on:** July 16, 2007, 03:54:27 AM »

I also have served on jury's and some did the correct thing ! I sincerely hope you stood your ground and either hung the jury or convinced the other members to do the correct thing !
I believe there are both individuals and lawyers that in essence chase ambulances because there is no penalty if they loose !
To those lawyers it is just a cost of doing business , to waste a little time and effort !
I believe to up the ante would stop many of the frivolous law suits ! and other than put a few shady lawyers out of business it would not hurt !

Dee · « **Reply #68 on:** July 16, 2007, 04:10:48 AM »

I believe that ALL lawyers are shady. Legal Whores for money in my opinion. They will TWIST the truth in an effort to win, DEFEND folks that they know for a FACT are guilty, FOR MONEY, and yet claim moral high ground.
As for juries, I have seen many acquit a chronic DWI, because they themselves have at one time or another been guilty of driving while intoxicated.

powderman · « **Reply #69 on:** July 16, 2007, 05:57:34 AM »

Mel ignatow was aquitted of murder, rape, and torture of an ex girlfriend. Everybody in the State of KY knew he was guilty, except for the jury. Some time later a tape was found in a house he used to live in. He videoed the torture, rape, and murder. He even admitted to it but couldn't be tried again for the same crime. Like oj he was tried in a civil suit, he lost, but now runs free. A lawyer once told me that if he were paid enough money, he could have a sodomy charge reduced to following too close. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #70 on:** July 16, 2007, 09:51:48 AM »

A lawyer once told me that justice was for sale. The bigger the check the more justice you could buy. I haven't seen him proven wrong very often. A trial is usually won by the lawyer with the biggest ego, and the biggest fees. I have zero use for ANY lawyer.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #71 on:** July 16, 2007, 10:56:59 AM »

I guess you could say we are all whores for money. I know I wasn't working for free when I was in the labour force. I agree that the loser should be liable. Like that town clown judge suing that Mom and Pop dry cleaners in D.C. for millions. And losing. Oh well, so what? He had to be at the court house anyway.
Juries seem to have taken on a life of their own. They hope that when their turn comes to sue some deep pockets person or corporation, the folks they're being so lavish with now will remember it. Also, it seems almost an ego thing to be the jury to award the highest amount of money.

Dee · « **Reply #72 on:** July 16, 2007, 02:04:22 PM »

I don't believe we are all whores for money. I see nothing wrong with working for an honest dollar. I do have a problem with lawyers whom are TRAINED in college to go in and confuse the jury with big words, and statements taken out of context, and elaborate showmanship in the courtroom. A legal whore, i.e. the lawyer, will work to win, when right and wrong has nothing to do with the case, only winning. He will say and do, whatever he thinks it takes to say or do, to win. He does not care about right and wrong. He will work to suppress good evidence, and make the witnesses look like fools if he can. He knows most John Q Citizens are not court savey, and are intimidated because of it, and uses it to his advantage. I have seen it time and time again, in my past profession. There is a big difference in an honest dollar and a dis-honest one.
Even the Bible says a lawyer has as much chance of getting into Heaven, as a camel has, to go thru the eye of a needle. Apparently my opinion of them is shared by someone else.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #73 on:** July 17, 2007, 01:43:49 AM »

TM-7, you mention control cost , we all hear where someone has so long to live say a year , but with treatment they may get to live 2 years . Often these treatments cost hundreds of thousands of dollars some a million ! Who has the right to make that choice ? At first glance one might say it was not cost effective yet a deeper look may prove it was . Say a 100% cure is found while the patient is alive and he is cured after a year and a half . Many insurance companies have protocols to dole out treatment also drug companies do the same with test treatment and medicine . Who will make these decisions under national health care ? Who will pay ? we will pay thru. more taxes ! and every time some thing new comes along we will see our taxes rise ! You will see a system started out of control !

ironglow · « **Reply #74 on:** July 17, 2007, 04:17:54 AM »

Dee;
Thank you !

I would not add or detract a word from what you said..your words echo my thoughts exactly !

...Ironglow

magooch · « **Reply #75 on:** July 17, 2007, 04:32:14 AM »

My experience with lawyers is that they behave as if they have a license to steal. Their word is not to be trusted and they have no scruples. Too often, their business ethics are only policed by other lawyers (Bar Associations). Yeah, that works.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #76 on:** July 17, 2007, 05:26:43 AM »

While I have many of the same thoughts about lawyers, I must be reading a different Bible as the one I read says nothing about lawyers. And I am gonna play the devil's advocate as I have a problem with the born again, self rightious types deciding what is a honest dollar and what is not; who is an honest man and who is not. I guess those dollars that Oral Roberts and those of his ilk have bilked from the aged and poor and afraid are honest dollars since he sez he is doing it for the Lord. And to put Richard thru re-hab. What about Al and Jesse. They say they're men of God.

As much as I dislike lawyers, they are merely providing a service for a bunch of greedy folks that would be quick to tell you that they are Christians.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #77 on:** July 17, 2007, 10:35:17 AM »

I have to ask , if our legal system is to work how would a lawyer defend a case other than use every tool at his disposal ?
would you wish that the lawyer defending you ( if the need arose ) only do a half a-- job ?
If we allow the lawyers to decide who is guilty and defend them as such then we may as well sent our system of laws down the toilet ! How in good faith could we execute someone knowing they had less than a fair chance in court .
It must be remembered that no matter how bad their crime was we should not slip as low as them !
And if a lawyer wins in court why not look at the prosecutor ? The OJ trial was a great example , the prosecutor's side was about togather as a soup sandwich ! So if you had been on trial would you have felt that although they did a bad job you still loose was fair ! LETS NOT FORGET - YOU HAVE TO BE PROVED GUILTY !
and if everyone in the world knew he was guilty and they couldn't prove it , why do they have the job they do ?
And last , if we as citizens did the right thing all the time we would not need lawyers ! FAT CHANCE !

magooch · « **Reply #78 on:** July 18, 2007, 03:26:12 AM »

I have a simpler (yeah, simplistic) theory; if we didn't have lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #79 on:** July 18, 2007, 04:26:37 AM »

which came first , the lawyer or the disagreement between two people ?

30-30man · « **Reply #80 on:** July 18, 2007, 09:24:20 AM »

I just don't believe lawsuits are driving the costs up that much. Yeah , maybe some doctors are sued along with hospitals once in a blue moon but with the prices they charge, you'd think it was every other year. If the malpractice insurance was that costly, you wouldn't have doctors, pharmaceuticals making a killing. Their pay would be right along the lines of a school teacher. Well it ain't. It is just a lame excuse for the expensive charges that have gone unchecked. How can a drug company sell the same medicine overseas for half the price they are selling it here? If they were not making money , they would not export drugs to Canada, Brazil, ect. I have an uncle that takes an rv trip every year to Canada, one of the things they do is buy heart medication while they are there. How come Walmart just started selling generics for $4? The bad press over their healthcare benefits started it but they wouldn't have done it if they were going to loose money. It is because there is room to cut costs. They are all guilty of greed.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #81 on:** July 18, 2007, 12:51:02 PM »

I don't know all the ins and outs of it but here in Wild and Wonderful West Virginia, Motto: I'm just one lawsuit away from being rich, there were so many suits against doctors that the insurance companies wouldn't insure the doctors and the doctors said, screw it, we're leaving. They now have some sort of state supported, cobbled together coverage.
How can a drug be manufactured in the USA, shipped to Canada or Mexico and sold for half the price it cost in the USA? It's called product liability. You've seen the sleazebag ads: "have you ever taken xxxx? Or thought about taking it? If you had bad thoughts when you thought about taking it you may be eligible for restitution. Call BR=549. Operators are standing by."

powderman · « **Reply #82 on:** July 18, 2007, 03:17:25 PM »

Quote from: magooch on July 18, 2007, 03:26:12 AM

I have a simpler (yeah, simplistic) theory; if we didn't have lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers.

HEH. Well put Magooch, and for the most part, true. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #83 on:** July 18, 2007, 04:47:48 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on July 17, 2007, 05:26:43 AM

While I have many of the same thoughts about lawyers, I must be reading a different Bible as the one I read says nothing about lawyers. And I am gonna play the devil's advocate as I have a problem with the born again, self rightious types deciding what is a honest dollar and what is not; who is an honest man and who is not. I guess those dollars that Oral Roberts and those of his ilk have bilked from the aged and poor and afraid are honest dollars since he sez he is doing it for the Lord. And to put Richard thru re-hab. What about Al and Jesse. They say they're men of God.

As much as I dislike lawyers, they are merely providing a service for a bunch of greedy folks that would be quick to tell you that they are Christians.

Well, bemanbeme, I believe I attributed a scripture to a lawyer that was actually to the rich man. What was more appropriate was Luke Chapter 11 verse 46. There's the one I should have used, as it does pertain to lawyers as do others in a simular fashion. But alas, I know this is not a Bible study, and most lawyers would not know how to properly use one anyway.
I doubt that Oral Roberts has much to do with the health care problems, or at least not as much as millionaire trial lawyers do. The funny thing about trial lawyers is one (a multi-millionaire one that got rich on sueing doctors and hospitals as a matter of fact) from North Carolina I believe, is trying to run for president again. John something or other. Tried last time as vice-pres candidate with Kerry.
Your bringing up Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, was interesting though. What have they done to damage the health care system? I haven't heard that story.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #84 on:** July 18, 2007, 05:05:04 PM »

It's broken alright, the ambulance chasers and idiot juries have destroyed health care in America.

superjay01 · « **Reply #85 on:** July 21, 2007, 04:42:37 PM »

the reason that medication made in the u.s. are cheaper in Canada has nothing to do with lawyers. The Canadian government tells the drug companies how much they are going to pay for the meds and if the u.s. companies want the business of the Canadian health care system they will take the money that the Canadian health care system will pay. That is why they are cheaper than what you can get in the u.s.
Again the reasons docs are getting sued is because they make mistakes. It doesn't matter if it was a oops or not they still have to pay for their mistake. It has very little to do with greedy, cheating, lawyers.

Explorer1 · « **Reply #86 on:** July 21, 2007, 07:40:25 PM »

If you think its broke now, just wait till the Gubermint fixes it even more! As a disabled vet, I can attest that Gobermint supplied health care is nothing more than yet another poliical football at the mercy of the politicians and those who pay them off (via campaign support). I was on active duty and waited 3 years for knee surgery, just think if I was not in the "highest priority" group?

Even then, "they" wanted me to "wait and see" (one ACL was SEVERED!)

Remember when Canada shut down their hospitals due to budget problems??? (early 90s). Supposedly England has age limits on the major surgeries, if your "too" old the return isn't high enough for the Gubermint bean counters/ Or look at Germany's system, also going broke.

Yes, our system has problems. Things like uniformity MAY be good, direct Gobermint involvement is almost NEVER good!

Just remember that famous IRS saying "We are from the Gobermint, we are here to help you!" Or how they have "solved" gun violence by passing more laws on those who follow the laws, driving small dealers out of business, attacking big dealers for such "admin problems" as abbreviating the names of states.........

NO, NO, and even more NO!

As for those places where prices are controlled..........just how many have private companies doing research at their own expense? How much stock would YOU buy in company that did stuff non-profit? Is that the way you invest your extra sheckles?

ironglow · « **Reply #87 on:** July 22, 2007, 01:12:06 PM »

Beeman;

Sorry; but you must be reading the wrong version..

The Bible mentions lawyers several times..and rarely favorably...

Here are some verses..

Lawyer:

Matthew 22:35

Luke 10:25

Titus 3:13

Lawyers:

Luke 7:30

Luke 7:45

Luke 7:46

Luke11:52

Luke 14:3

I am pleased that you brought this up, since the most difficulty with lawyers seems to have been with Luke !

Of course, we all are aware that LUKE was a PHYSICIAN...

Note: In Luke 14:3 ...the lawyers are trying to interfere with when a patient should /could be healed !

Looks like some things haven't really changed in the last 20 centuries...LOL

BTW: I checked several versions of the Bible and they all agree..some went so far as to say "teachers " or "doctors" of the law..

powderman · « **Reply #88 on:** July 22, 2007, 04:44:57 PM »

I was injured in a farm accident in 1986. I was forced to hire a lawyer because of my medical bills. He charged 1/3 of the settlement and never went to court. It drug out almost a year. I was injured for life, and he got big bucks for making the insurance co do what they should have to begin with, but didn't because of THEIR lawyers. I told him that I thought his fee was high given that he never left his office and that God only asks 10% for all the wonders that he does for us. He didn't find that humorous at all, I had a good chuckle though.
Same lawyer a few years later helped an old couple get social security that they should have gotten years before and wouldn't take a penny. WE had gone to him for a donation for the needy for our church at Christmas time. He told us that he had already given a lot but took a phone call as we started to leave. He asked us to stay, he told the caller he knew he'd promised but he had court and he didn't know how her food baskets would be delivered. He then said, just a minute, maybe I do. He then asked if we would deliver some baskets for his church, of course we agreed. He told us there were a couple extra baskets we could have if we had families for them. We delivered the baskets the next day and had 3 xtra baskets. We got back to church and our pastor said, boys, I have bad news, we just got 3 more families. I said, what a coincidence, we have 3 xtra baskets. That lawyer also gave us a generous check. They aren't all bad, ya just have to find them I guess. Before we left the lawyers office, after he gave us a check, he asked what else he could do, I said nothing, you've done enough. He said no, I sense theres another need, thats when I told him about the old couple we had take food and firewood to, he got it for them, no charge. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #89 on:** July 22, 2007, 05:23:40 PM »

Well, I remain the faithful cynic, as the lawyer was only giving back money to the community that he was raping. This money is made by selling out morally right people in the effort to win. In the 20 years I dealt with lawyers professionally, I never had one prove me wrong, in the end. Winning and money is their only goal. The Bible, GOD'S WORD, speaks just as highly of them as I do. They make their living twisting law, to fit their needs.

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What do you think of the healthcare system?

Author Topic: Do you think the healthcare system is broken? (Read 6831 times)