Author Topic: Do you think the healthcare system is broken? (Read 6845 times)

Dee · « **Reply #90 on:** July 23, 2007, 02:38:35 AM »

As far as "good" lawyers some of you guys would be in fine company with that belief. O.J. Simpson believes I am sure that there are certainly some "good" lawyers, as he is as guilty as sin, for a DOUBLE HOMICIDE, and plays golf everyday. His team of "good" lawyers suppressed IMPORTANT EVIDENCE, MIS-CONSTRUED TESTIMONY, CONFUSED AN INTIMIDATED JURY, AND MADE "CREDIBLE WITNESSES" LOOK LIKE FOOLS.
These same wonderful fellows called "good" lawyers, are the same profession that is trying to RE-INTERPRET the Constitution, ESPECIALLY THE 2nd AMMENDMENT. These same "good" lawyers, are the same one's that drafted the "WONDERFUL" Patriot Act, which affects NO ONE, but LAW ABIDING Americans. These same "good" lawyers are the ones seen in TV commercials telling you "don't accept that check" from the insurance company until you talk to me. These same "good" lawyers are the one's whom DRAFT THE CONTRACT you sign when you buy HEALTH CARE INSURANCE, "AND" these same "good" lawyers are the one's that look at your high medical bills to see if there is any way the Insurance Company can get out of paying them.
These same "good" lawyers are the same ones whom you meet in court, for a traffic accident you got the citation for, and are being sued for injuries that may or may not have occurred. The lawsuit filed against you, because a stranger tripped on you lawn. The same "good" lawyer represents the guy that got hurt while TRESPASSING on your land and HUNTING WITH OR WITHOUT PERMISSION. He is the same "good" lawyer that DRAFTS a CONTRACT FOR A PRICE, that you have to make every one sign so another "good" lawyer will have "FEWER" loop holes to sue you. These "good" lawyers are what is wrong with your government, and yes, your health care system. They PROTECT the DOCTORS, & HOSPITALS, from frivolous lawsuits from other "good" lawyers. They "SUE" DOCTORS & HOSPITALS for frivolous claims, and last but not least they DICTATE to DOCTORS & HOSPITALS whom they HAVE TO TREAT, even if those persons are IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. These "good" lawyers are becoming MULTI MILLIONAIRES off of American citizens whom were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they (the "good" lawyers) have figured out how to make a lot of money because of the misfortune of others.
As far as I am concerned the only "good" lawyer would be the one that was eventually cut down out of the tree because of the growing odor. But, that's just my opinion.

ironglow · « **Reply #91 on:** July 30, 2007, 08:25:25 AM »

You can bet your boots that if it is a Hillary/Osama ticket in '08 and they get in...socialized medicine will be one of the first things pushed through a democrat controlled congress..

powderman · « **Reply #92 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:32:47 AM »

IRONGLOW. Yep, right after they disarm the law abiding. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #93 on:** August 23, 2007, 04:02:16 PM »

Just about 20 minutes ago, Ann Coulter was on the Hannity & Colmes show. It seems that the

platinum haircut guy, John Edwards has called her a "she-devil"...

She was being called upon for a reply and one of the things she said was: (paraphrased)

" I have to consider being called a she-devil by a trial lawyer as a great compliment !"

That is one sharp, smart woman...I would like to see her in a debate with the "world's smartest" woman..Hitlary..

Shootall:

Some posts back you attempted to compare Micheal Moore with Rush Limbaugh . While both do make strong arguments, there is one glaring difference...

Rush seems to do his best to tell the truth....

Swampman · « **Reply #94 on:** August 23, 2007, 04:28:11 PM »

I can't afford free health care. It's never worked anywhere it's been tried.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #95 on:** August 24, 2007, 02:13:39 AM »

ironglow , you sure that was me ?

Dee · « **Reply #96 on:** August 24, 2007, 02:39:18 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 23, 2007, 04:28:11 PM

I can't afford free health care. It's never worked anywhere it's been tried.

Agreed swampman, it HASN'T worked anywhere it's been tried. NOW! Where you been?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #97 on:** August 24, 2007, 03:23:07 AM »

I got to ask why do ya'll call it free ? if you get anything free from the govt. you have never worked and paid taxes ! It is a simple calculation , look at you gross pay ! then your net pay ! the difference is the cost of all the FREE stuff the govt. gives ya ! so it ain't free unless you are an illegal , welfare recp. or some other citizen who has figured out how to screw the system !
the way the health care system works now is not perfect , but at least we have a say and can sue when wronged , if govt runs it we will loose all control ! did ya know you have to get permission to sue the govt. , think that would work well ?

gypsyman · « **Reply #98 on:** August 24, 2007, 03:31:18 AM »

As I said earlier, I don't think the system is broken, but it sure needs some serious adjustment. My wife has, in the last month, graduated from college with a degree, and passed her test, to become a Medical Laboratory Technologist. She's working at a hospital lab, finishing up her final training now. She has to carry insurance, not as expensive as a doctor, but not cheap. If she makes a mistake in a test, gives the wrong info to the doctor, he prescribes the wrong medication, somebody dies, everybody loses. Except the lawyer! Not in the medical line, but when you have an attorney suing his dry cleaners, for what was it,half a million dollars, for losing his pants, or burning a hole in them, or some such nonsense. This is where the bar assoc. ought to step in and yank a liscense. We've had doctors move out of state, because of malpractice insurance rates. Not sure who or when, but somebody better get a handle on this, as it will be completely broken with a meltdown in the not to distant furure. gypsyman

Dee · « **Reply #99 on:** August 24, 2007, 03:37:03 AM »

Quote from: gypsyman on August 24, 2007, 03:31:18 AM

As I said earlier, I don't think the system is broken, but it sure needs some serious adjustment. My wife has, in the last month, graduated from college with a degree, and passed her test, to become a Medical Laboratory Technologist. She's working at a hospital lab, finishing up her final training now. She has to carry insurance, not as expensive as a doctor, but not cheap. If she makes a mistake in a test, gives the wrong info to the doctor, he prescribes the wrong medication, somebody dies, everybody loses. Except the lawyer! Not in the medical line, but when you have an attorney suing his dry cleaners, for what was it,half a million dollars, for losing his pants, or burning a hole in them, or some such nonsense. This is where the bar assoc. ought to step in and yank a liscense. We've had doctors move out of state, because of malpractice insurance rates. Not sure who or when, but somebody better get a handle on this, as it will be completely broken with a meltdown in the not to distant furure. gypsyman

It wasn't a lawyer suing (although he probably was), it was a JUDGE. And JOHN EDWARDS, the presidential candidate made his MILLIONS suing doctors and hospitals. TRIAL LAWYERS ( make that all lawyers) are the parasites of society. Even God agrees with that, and saw fit to address the issue in HIS WORD.

30-30man · « **Reply #100 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:27:22 AM »

The price of doing business is in every profession from being an educator to being a hair dresser. A hair dresser has to pay for her license, pay for classes to keep it current, buy supplies, pay booth rent, and pay for their own health insurance, social security. Yet most of them only charge a fair wage. Believe what you will but the malpractice insurance is not what is driving the cost up. It is greed, the healthcare industry would like you to believe something else. Why do they export drugs to other countries and only charge 1/3 of the price we pay? Why would they do this if they were not making a profit? Ever know any poor doctors or even nurses for that matter?

Dee · « **Reply #101 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:45:57 AM »

3030man I haven't met any poor airline pilots, or bankers either. The DRUG LOBBY controls the prices by LOBBING in D.C. Just like the AUTO INDUSTRY LOBBIESTS do, and the NRA, and on and on. All are guilty. We are the most guilty by patronizing such people. If we did not do so, they would have to change.

rockbilly · « **Reply #102 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:10:57 PM »

Several countries in Europe have a socialized health care system. From what I seen while there, it works great. A "tax" is with held from each individuals pay to pay for the service. They go to the doctor of choice, and get medication at no cost. Unless it has changed since I was there, it seemed like a very good system.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #103 on:** August 27, 2007, 01:57:51 AM »

If you regulate profit out of the medical industry why would anyone wish to develop a new drug or any other related product ?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #104 on:** August 27, 2007, 02:57:51 AM »

so if given the choice between say space research with good return and med. with limited return , both which will fill your list you expect them to pick less pay back ? I don't share your expectation of the human race , I myself like to help people as much as the next but with out investment capital where would the funds to start come from ?
I have a cousin who's job it is ,is to go to medical labs and see if the projects they are conducting are worthy of investment , this is a job that takes her world wide ! She reports her findings to an investment group who either invest or decline ! they put up the $$$$$ not the companies who make the drug ! this is but one way to get the funds , many more must exist . I offer this to show how complex the process is , it is free market ! i like it , those who don't may wish to move to a county that has "free medical " for a while and see if they really like it and not destroy my country's market in the process !

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #105 on:** August 27, 2007, 09:34:44 AM »

ain't that why our fore fathers left over there in the first place ? they came over here and set up a system of free enterprise !
now if you want to cut down people for making a profit go ahead ! but i for one don't wish to be socialized like those countries that have it !
i will let ya in on a little truth , money ( the mighty dollar ) is little more than a score card of what you or your fore fathers were worth to society ! if you or your own worked hard and produced you got wealth , yes some were lucky but they had the sense to recognize it and take advantage of it ! look at VIC $100000000 , we made him worth that he took advantage of it ! should the guy who saves your life be paid less than the guy who entertains you ?
you cannot legislate values and that is the goal of socialist ! if you take the time to look you will notice the drug companies donate millions of free medicine each year to the poor !

30-30man · « **Reply #106 on:** August 27, 2007, 12:37:40 PM »

How many of us throw our money away on premiums every month and never meet our deductibles? I have been paying premiums for the most of my adult life and can count on my hands how many times I've met my deductible or any family member for that matter. When hospitals are turning away children because parents lack health insurance and don't have $50-80k stashed away to give them up front, the system is perverted and broken. I have never worked in the medical field but when I learned first hand of what our current system has done to one of our local families in our church, it made me mad as h@##. How anyone could be proud of their proffesion in the medical field when stories like this come out is beyond me. How these people can say our system is the best in the world is beyond me. I spent several years of my young life in the millitary. I have been to Germany, Italy, England, Poland, Philippines, Iceland, South Korea, and even Argentina. I have never seen a collection jar at a convenience store trying to raise money because some family can't afford care for their loved one. It is a common practice here, so someone please tell me how this system is better? All of us under private health insurance are only one major illness away from declaring bankrupcy.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #107 on:** August 27, 2007, 01:05:16 PM »

OK ! how should it be run ?

30-30man · « **Reply #108 on:** August 27, 2007, 04:23:35 PM »

First and foremost, we need price caps on charges that hospitals, doctors and drug companies charge. They should have to justify price increases to state legislatures for approval just like telephone, cable, and gas. Has this regulation caused many of us to go without power, gas, or telephones? Has this caused a lag in innovation and invention of new technologies? No, Just look how far the telephone has come. I remember when a phone in a briefcase was a pipe dream just 30 years ago.

The same price a drug company charges for an exported drug should be the same here. The charges hospitals charge should be fair. A box of Kleenex should not cost you $30. Hospitals and doctors should have to publish charges for common procedures so that there is competition. Competition drives down price, I remember the first cell phone I saw was like $500, just 20 years ago. Next doctors should be contracted through hospitals so that patients don't end up with ten bills when they need care.

Lastly, we have a federal tax on everything from alcohol, tobacco, to gasoline. Why not a federal sales tax with a state and federal cap of .20 on every dollar? I haven't calculated the math, but it would add up to a heap of money. The state and local would be capped at .10, the federal with .05 going toward healthcare and the other .05 going toward federal income taxes which we all hate. This money would fund health care for all and eliminate most of the federal income tax. Think of all the under reporting that goes on with federal taxes, this way everyone would pay a fair share including all the illegals.

The majority of us see a doctor what once a year at the most? Think of all the money we throw away and never see a return. My premiums alone run $2400 a year. This money could be used to offset the increase in sales taxes.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #109 on:** August 28, 2007, 01:30:58 AM »

let me get this straight , you want to cap prices and expect competition . why do you believe that would draw bright young people into the field ? why would investors waste their time on a limited at best return ?
the .2 % cap would be nice , not sure the break down would work ! some states don't have income tax , they may not care for the plan !
just so you can ponder the capping of prices , in the 70'2 when we had the gas shortage prices were capped on plastic pipe among other things , as soon as the cap was lifted the suggested retail price went to extream levels , an example a fitting that cost 27 cent had a SRP of 50 or more dollars . We would get pricing that went like this cost less 23 % less 22% less 5 % less 6% , it would take a computer to get the correct price ! reason - if they ever got a cap again ( which had been the SRP they " wouldn't get caught with their pants down "
i feel as you the system is far from perfect , it is run by humans most who are motivated by the need for security , which is measured i cold hard cash !
it would be great to have free medical care , but there is no such thing , you talk about the yearly doctor trip , you don't like paying for insurance but won't mind a tax for the same thing .
, i scratch my head over that ?
the tissue box , did it go thru. a special cleaning process that the drug store box did not ?
the phone company , now that's a good example , it got deregulated and calls went from 10 cents to 50 cents , and have you seen a pay phone lately anyway , and do you wish to get service like the service at a Verizon store , IE. you would see a different doctor every trip ! and wait longer than in present day doctors offices !
No my vote is to let the medical industry change to meet the market not gamble on a quick fix !

30-30man · « **Reply #110 on:** August 28, 2007, 10:30:50 AM »

Have we not had innovation and new discoveries in telephone, travel, or electrical service? They are both regulated services and they have competition. I remember when cell phones were just a dream,(remember the six million dollar man?) yet we have them now that can do more than most computers. So the scare tactic the medical industry uses doesn't hold water.

You know some people enter a profession because they want to help people. It is not until they get into it that they become pervertedd with greed. The fact that you can read this was a result of some teacher and I guaranteee they didn't enter the profession with money in mind. Yet young people fill our classrooms across this nation everyday, so that doesn't hold water either.

The cap would be on increases, as now they increase charges on a whim. They charge what the insurance industry will pay or slightly over. It would be the only way to control it now that is has gotten so out of hand. I complain about my premiums but would gladly trade them for no more stories about families like I have observed first hand. No healthcare is not free but it should be available to everyone no matter what their financial situation is. In short, I would gladly pay the tax, it would not amount to over what we already pay. We would eventually be healthier as we would go see a physcian more than we do now. The doctors would probably have more time too. They wouldn't have to spend wasted time talking to an insurance company or worrying about if the medicine they perscribe is covered under your plan. They could treat as they see fit. The problem with any kind of plan is that the American public has been so brainwashed by the medical system for years. They have all of us scared to death to do anything about it.

I'm just tired of their excuses as none of them justify what they are doing to my family and yours.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #111 on:** August 29, 2007, 04:41:52 AM »

30/30man, a phone call cost more in relation to other goods and services than it did
deregulation works ! yea right !
teachers have it made 12 mo. pay work 9 mo. kids go because it is the law ! yes some do wish to help people , but unless they were rich to start they won't do it long for free !
at every level of any industry is an insurance cost , also the medical industry has ample opportunity to cheat !
now if you really want to help cap the insurance pay out , make it reasonable not a jack-pot !

Matt · « **Reply #112 on:** August 29, 2007, 11:30:41 AM »

you know all those doctor bills could be reduced....

learn more on how here: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,124898.0.html

powderman · « **Reply #113 on:** August 29, 2007, 03:35:05 PM »

Just found out today that my neighbors wife had been treated for a cancer that drs NOW say never existed, the same ones that ordered the tests, read them, and ordered the expensive treatments. THey have lost their home and 10 acres, + a 15 acre inheritence to settle the medical debts. Sad. POWDERMAN.

30-30man · « **Reply #114 on:** August 29, 2007, 03:41:47 PM »

That is the bottom line, they cheat and are driven by greed not helping others like their warm fuzzy commercials say.

Powderman, that is why I am so fighting mad about our current screwed up system. That family should have never had to lose everything they owned because someone got sick, and we have the best healthcare system in the world....Yeah, Right,We have the greatest racket of a healthcare system in the world.

Cell phones cost more now than they did 30 years ago? AS far as I know cell phone service though not regulated like home service is still regulated on the charges and fees they can pass to customers. My first cell phone was a car installed model that belonged to my work. I think it was around $200 a month and that was in 1984. In 1988 or somewhere around there, I got my first bag phone, I was paying around $40 a month. Now the same service is around is still around $40. Even home service offers long distance for .10 a minute. 30 years ago, I could not call across our county without being charged over $1.50 a minute. How has this gone up? This service has been regulated and has had competition, the same thing we need in the healthcare system.

No teachers won't work for free but they enter the profession with helping others in mind. I doubt any of them have money in mind as there is none in the profession. As fas as getting paid 12 months and only working 9, when is the last time any of us have substituted? I did it for one day as a chaperon for my nephew on a fieldtrip. One day was all I could stand. They deserve every day they get off.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #115 on:** August 30, 2007, 02:09:20 AM »

I taught school for 8 years , did it for the money plain and simple ! some years had over 50 in my class ! some came drunk , some on drugs ,and some did want to learn . I enjoyed teaching the ones who wanted to learn but would not have come for free !
to be quite frank almost all the teachers I had contact with did it for the money !
It is truly noble to believe the motivation of humanity is not self serving but anyone who opens their eyes will see that the majority of the time that just ain't so ! One must also factor in the politically correct requirement as to what must be stated by newbies in any profession to be accepted and allowed to say get their piece of the pie !
If anyone wishes to see what govt. control does , they only need look at the drug industry . New drugs do not get on line for years and others take years to be pulled after problems arise etc.
It is an awful situation when you know a system is out of control but there is no good solution to repair it !
The people who lost their land , i am sorry they had that happen ! I had the reverse happen , i worked on a cooling tower , got really sick , the doctor said he was not sure but i may have legionaries disease , the only way to know was a test that would take longer to get results back than it would take the disease to kill me , the treatment at that time was quite rough , he started treatment and i lived , 8 days later it was confirmed i had it so he made a good guess . It could have been proved i did not have it ! I could have suffered thru. the treatment to only find out it had been for nothing or could have died ! Doctors make mistakes ( some more than others ) but where would we be if no one was a doctor ?
AS i read the post a theme starts to appear , some want perfect health care at a cheap price , they believe that it should all happen out of the goodness of peoples heart ! It would be amusing if it were not so tragic , think about it people pay $50000.00 for an SUV , $1000's in entertainment , vacation , etc. but b---h about paying the industry that keeps them alive ! What is it worth to have good health care ?
Oh well got to go , doctor's appt. , gee what will this cost me ?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #116 on:** August 30, 2007, 02:14:46 AM »

What is a fair profit ?
In the free world it is determined by supply and demand / what the market will bear ! Should the guy who hits the next world series winning home run take home more than the guy who cures cancer ?
Maybe we should divide the world into those who wish to live free and those who wish the be taken care of !

30-30man · « **Reply #117 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:24:26 PM »

We won't have utopia until our Lord comes and then some won't be so happy. I don't have all the answers but can provide some. I do know that the present system does not work. The little girl at our church got the care she deserved but it was a huge hassle that should have been prevented. We had to transport the family to Duke and the entire town has paid the medical bills in full. If we had not stepped in, she would not have been here to even talk about. She has had to learn how to talk, walk, and become a kid all over again. Last night I saw her at church walking for the first time in months. I cried like a baby.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #118 on:** August 30, 2007, 02:00:50 PM »

Well. everyone is bitchin' about the system and pointing fingers but when some one asks, as it has been several times in this thread, what needs to be done? No one has any real world answers, just more bitchin'. I feel sorry that one little girl didn't get the treatment she needed without a hassle but it's not right to indite the entire medical system because they didn't do to suit you in that case.
As posted, folks think nothing about spending $50,000 on a SUV but want to whine about paying a medical premium.
Some one talked about caps. I didn't hear anything about caps on what a plumber makes after a grueling 6 months on the job. Or a journeyman carpenter with 6 months experience and a union card. I don't know if you people are selective communist or selective socialist.
So, until some one comes up with a better idea, with all its faults, we've still got the best game in the world.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #119 on:** August 31, 2007, 01:11:46 AM »

Guess people just need something to bitch about !
If that little girl was mine I would thank GOD there was a Duke to take her to at any cost !

Poll

What do you think of the healthcare system?

Author Topic: Do you think the healthcare system is broken? (Read 6845 times)