Marlin .30-30 and Leverevolution ammo

[DavOh]

Anybody feeding their Marlin with Leverevolution?  How does it digest?  If it's as accurate as I hope, I may give this combo a try this year on whitetail instead of a .308

This is probably a duplicate topic, but I haven't been able to get a result when trying the search function so I figured I'd post

[teddy12b]

Pretty much everyone that I've ever heard of absolutely loves its accuracy.  I quit handloading for my 336W after I tried the leverolution ammo.  I just can't beat sub MOA accuracy with my handloads.  Buy it, you'll love it.

[a1huntingsupply]

A couple of the guys I work with use it and they love it. They say it's a night and day difference. The only negative complaints I have heard so far is that it can be hard to find in stock at times.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup cause regular 3030 ammo is very inacurrate, falls like a rock past 50 yards, will bounce off of deer at anything over 75 yards and i just way to cheap to be any good 

[PeterCartwright]

O.K. Lloyd.  I gotta confess.  I picked up a box of the new fangled stuff, too.  Here's my rationale:  I didn't get it for me (because my hunting style/place doesn't require the extra reach).  My son, however, has gotten to participate in the Michigan youth hunt held in September.  We place these kids in blinds which look over large, open, fields (yeah, even in the U.P.!)  If I can turn my son's 336 .30-30 into the virtual equivelant of a 300 Savage for the cost of a box of ammo, I'm game to try it. 

The first year, we sat for an hour watching a very large 8 point out to almost 300 yards.  I told my son, "Don't even think about it."  Later, he popped a nice, fat, young buck at a paced off 90 yards with simple, factory 150 gr. "Green Box" stuff.  Worked perfectly! ("Bang-Flop" no less!)  His best buddy took the larger buck the next evening with a .243 (also about 300 yards out).

Don't hate me, Lloyd, but I think there's a place for the new whiz-bang stuff.

[DavOh]

I guess I should mention that I'm not too terribly keen on turning a .30-30 into a 300 yd sendero rifle.  I'm more interested in accuracy.   If ammunition is that much more accurate, and still suitable for the game you're hunting, cost is a non-issue, IMO.   I wont argue terminal ballistics, and "on-game performance" because that is fairly much a non issue.  I've seen a many of deer fall at 150-200 yd to an old marlin 336.  The limiting factor is not the power of the cartridge, but the accuracy of the round-nose bullet. 

Accuracy is more important than anything else(bullet-type being a given), and if the more expensive ammo is more accurate, I will use it.  Otherwise, I wont. That's the bottom line.

[teddy12b]

I switched over to it because my groups got tighter at the shooting range.  That's all the reason I need.  I want to make sure I hit the right spot first, then all the other stuff.  I hunt with the most accurate loads I can find for my rifles whether I made them or somebody else made them. 

[PeterCartwright]

 I'm always concerned about accuracy, too.  But none of the Marlins I shoot have had an accuracy issue (at least not after some tweaking).  Most will shoot within 2" or a smidge more @ 100 yards (3 shots with full cooling between volleys).  The beat up old .35 Remington I acquired last year will regularly put three handloads within 1.5".   

All of the above are with traditional round or flat nosed bullets.  Personally, I don't think the shape of the Lever Revolution makes it inherently more accurate than our traditional bullets.  In fact, even some turn bolt rifles prefer round nose fodder in terms of paper accuracy.  My assumptions for the pointed/boat tail design relate primarily to achieving a higher ballistic coefficient.

My understanding for the rationale for the Lever Revolution line (particularly in the .30-30) is that it adds nearly 100 yards of usable range to this old war horse.  Of  course, if it won't do so accurately, the extra range is moot.  Provided that the load groups adequately, I figure this should make our little carbines 250 yard deer rifles, or perhaps a bit more in a pinch (so long as we do our part).

Any field/range reports on 200+ yard shooting with the new fangled fodder?  (I'd be curious to hear some real-life reporting).

[SHOOTALL]

I can't see the extra cost that big of a deal unless ya shoot alot ! its funny that some of the first 30/30 ammo was 160 gr. stuff !
I'll be honest i don't see an advantage out to 150 or so yards on deer , larger game maybe !
from a stand , if you have a good 308 why not use it ? if you are in thick stuff jump shooting use the 30/30 !
if you are like most shooters experiment and enjoy !
hunting is one of those  pursuits where there are so many tools to accomplish the same thing !
I got a box tried some didn't see the big deal ! for sure it is nice but not as much as its billed as , guess that's advertising at its best !
I wish i could remember the site , there was a test with every thing being the same except the bullet !
the bullets used were by the same manufacture , one was pointed the other flat , same weight etc.
any way at 300 yards the pointed one was about 2.5 inches higher , with same point of aim . I know that flies in the face of all the advertising and folk lore .
please don't tell my wife , i might need the same excuse to buy a new rifle one day , the one with the new and improved ammo with the points !

[PeterCartwright]

+1 Shootall.  I don't have a need for extended reach with my lever guns.  And, like you, I'm perfectly comfortable with the lethality of more traditional .30-30 bullets-especially for whitetails.  It's for those special cases (like hunting a field where the new stuff might give my son a bit more reach) that I might pull out the new stuff.  My son's physical stature will just accomodate a standard 336 buttstock.  My (longer reach) bolt guns are still a bit long for him.  The extra recoil of my other rifles wouldn't be helpful to a younger hunter, either.

I know.  A youth stocked 6.5X55 or 7mm'08 would be better still, but they're missing from my safe .  And in any case, most of my son's hunting will still be "woods hunting" where standard .30-30 fodder will serve him as perfectly as it's been serving hunters since when-1895?

[SHOOTALL]

I never felt under gunned until i read some of the post on this site !

[DavOh]

I never felt under gunned until i read some of the post on this site !

no kidding.... i missed the memo when whitetail started wearing kevlar...

if i get 1/2" better with the leverevolution, then it will be worth it to me.... I'm one of those people that wants the absolute best at the range, that I can afford, because conditions and circumstances are not always optimal in the field.  The type of rest used makes a huge difference and I dont come across too many bench rests in the woods....

[Dee]

I know some (maybe all) will disagree with me, but my dad bought a new Winchester Model 94 in 3030 in 1957, (I know, I know, it's a marlin thread just bear with me)  and then gave it to me after firing it only 7 times.
So as you might imagine I have been shooting this rifle awhile. Years ago, I put a Lyman peep on the rear, and MADE a post front sight for it. I also at some point YEARS AGO, started loading the 150 grain round nose, and that's about it, other than some cast with a gas check along the way.
My point is, I am good to go with this loading (2400fps) out just beyond 250 yards. I am sure the new ammo is good, but I don't see it necessary as long as we don't leak the information out to the game we hunt. They don't seem to realize that I shouldn't be able to hit them at this range and have been falling over for years. I just hate to change. I ain't gettin any younger, and change is hard at my age. Couldn't I maybe still be alright with the old way and the old bullet configuration? Couldn't I?

[wecole]

The LeverEvolution 30/30 ammo gives you a point blank range of ~220 yards.  If you know your range to target, you can hold-over and still feel good to 260+ yards.  That is a big improvement over a standard flat nose round.

If all your shots are short of 150 yards, then any standard 30/30 ammo will kill deer just fine.  But, if you hunt in areas where 200-250 yard shots are possible, then you might want to give LeverEvolution a try. 

I used it last year at my Father-in-Laws place in Georgia.  I was in a stand and had 200+ yard fields of fire to my right and left.  The doe I shot popped out of the woodline only 110 yards away, so I didn't need the extra range for that shot.  Still, I felt confident in that stand knowing I could reach out there if I needed to.

My recommendation is to buy a couple of boxes right now.  They won't be on the shelves in October.

[goodconcretecolor]

I just checked ammo prices in the MidwayUSA catalog and the Leverevolution ammo is only a dollar or two more per box than the cheapest of Remington, Winchester or Federal. My son wants to buy a 336 soon and he will probably use Hornady stuff to hunt and I will reload the cases for him with round nose bullets for practice.

[Lloyd Smale]

i guess my point is that the 3030 is a more then capable 200 yard gun using corelocks or even cast bullets. If accuracy is the question ive got a marlin 336 adl with a 22 inch barrel that will lay them into one inch at a 100 yards. sighted in 3 inches high at that range no hold over is needed out to 200 yards and a little more. Dont get me wrong i played for a couple years with 3030s using 130 grain pointed bullets using them as two shot guns trying to stretch the range out but never once shot anything past 200 yards. Unless your living in the wide open west theres no reason not to sneek up to with 200 yards of somethng anyway. Ive also went through the gamit with all the new revolutionary bullets that came out for them. such as the partitions but never seen where they killed any better then corelocks. For the most part my 3030s are loaded two ways anymore. Either with factory corelocks or cast bullets. Ive yet to find a bullet that killed any better then factory corelock bullets and if i want to save money when shooting alot cast bullets are the way to go and they do a real decent job on deer and bear hunting themselves. Ive got the same pet peave with all the short mag rounds. I think gun and ammo manufactures dream this crap up just to get you to spend money. They promise all kinds of miricles out of there products and try to convince you that you were an idiot to get by this long without there majic when in fact they dont do a dammed thing that wasnt allready getting done. Who i see buying most of this crap is guys that cant shoot or dont shoot much that think that writing a check will make them a better rifleman. Two inches of trajectory doesnt me anything in the field. At least not to me. Sight your gun in properly for the load your using and learn your gun and leave the gimics at home. Im sure some fat cat at hornady is drinking martinies and smilling at the fact that his clever marketing has again convinced people that they cant live without this crap. Theres probably nothing wrong with this ammo. Im sure it kills just fine but to me lever gun hunting is a traditional type of hunting that has relyed more on skill then gimmics and it is slowly evolving into the same crap that bolt guns with there short mags and extra power mags that everyone thinks they need to have type of hunting. Hell Marlin even sells guns specificaly designated as long range guns. To me lever hunting is real wood (not laminate) blued steel (not stainless) and a good open sight or apature sight sighted in for 200 yards in case i happen on a 200 yards shot which is about as likely as running into an elephant in the woods as when im hunting in open country ill still use a good bolt. (blued steel and wood and in a caliber that makes sense) I may be old fashioned and bull headed but i just cant bring myself to put a scope on a levergun. To me its about like putting a bucket seat on a horse.

[Dee]

Lloyd, YOU ARE, old fashioned and bull headed.  So am I!. I have been reloading for the 3030 since about 1970 or 71. Dad bought the Winchester new in 1957, fired seven rounds thru it, and them gave me the rifle and the box of shells that came with it. I too, experimented with different bullet weights, but LONG AGO settled on the 150 grain round nose CorLok in bulk. The load is a factory standard 2400FPS, and I am good to a little beyond 250 yds with it. I used to parctice at 280 yds. but, don't much anymore.
One of my favorite past times is 1 gallon jugs of water, at these ranges. I immediately became aware several years ago that a hit with a 3030 at say 250 yards doesn't look that much different than one with my 2506, shooting an 87gr. TNT varment bullet, at 3600 fps.
The 2506 will and has shot under 2" consistantly at 300yds, but is not as much fun to shoot. It however, like all my rifles are WOOD AND BLUED STEEL.

[NYHunter]

I don't see why you're getting all fired up Lloyd. No one is twisting your arm, telling you have to change what works for you.

They developed new powders and a pointed bullet for the lever action rifle. That's about it. Some will try it, some won't.
Some will like it, some won't.  I tried it in my (1966) 336RC .35.  On paper it's great, groups very tight, better than my Core-Lokts do.
Core-Lokts  happen to be my favorite bullet for deer and black bear too. 

Life is to short ... enjoy my friend.

[Keith L]

It is great that we all have so many choices.  We can get what makes us happy.

[snakeskinner]

Am I the only one on this site that couldn't get the stuff to shoot out if their 336? I couldn't get 8" groups and I tried 3 boxes and two scopes and mounts. Got tired of wasting money on the ammo and gave up. Gun was an '83 model.

[SHOOTALL]

snakeskinner , try cleaning the bbl. with KROIL OIL ! might help , also check the crown to see if it is damaged !

[RackWrangler]

I finally got back into levers.  I traded my father for one of his 336's.  I love these guns! 

We went out to the range and did some grouping with the 30-30's.  I fired three, three-shot, groups of Win., Fusion, Leverevolution, Rem., and Federal at 100 yards.  With my rifle, much to my surprise, the Hornaday ammo had the worst grouping.  The average of the groupings was about 3 inches.  Definitely a kill shot, but still the worst of the five.  The Fusion were the second worst, followed by Federal, then Rem.  The Win. were the best averaging about 1.5" for the three groups. 

With my dad's remaining 336, the Rem. and the Win. switched positions on the list, but the others stayed the same.  He was able to fire two perfect 1" clovers using the Rems.  Chalk one up for the ol' man.

So, in short snakeskinner, no you are not the only one unimpressed.  I might keep a box around on the off chance that I take this gun to a 200+ situation, but if that's the case, I'd be much better served by my NEF 308 BBL Survivor.  At least with the 308 I wouldn't have to re-sight in.

RW   

[demented]

 I stopped using my Marlin several years ago when I happened to see the Trophy buck of a lifetime as I was walking to my stand which was located in a heavily wooded area.  From the stand a 100 yards shot would have been long, I hadn't considered seeing this buck standing close to 250 yards on the logging road I walked in on. If I'd had Leverevolution back then, I might have had a chance at making the shot.  On the off chance of this happening again, my 30AS will be loaded with this if I ever decide to use it again. Just in case!

[Land_Owner]

I think gun and ammo manufactures dream this crap up just to get you to spend money.

Not true.  They dream this stuff up, as you know, because because prior to its invention it does not exist.  There is a niche for everything and everyone...for instance .17 rim fire.  The market will bear a lot of things.

Some folks just have an itch that can't be scratched.  And it is not necessarily a hunting thing.  Trying, buying, using, owning, trading, keeping just about whatever it takes until one of several options is exhausted...money, time, patience, accuracy, persistence, no more storage space, the "Boss" has had enough, or this one is "just right", etc.

I like shooting different guns and I like to gage how it feels and how accurate I can shoot it when doing it.  I am always the "yardstick" of my own preferences.  Some day I might luck into a combination that naturally "just fits".  Looking forward to it too.  But I remain a Traditionalist with a preference for the old flat nosed and round nosed tubular magazine fed ammunition in the .30-30.

Fortunately, when I want to "reach out and touch something" there is a weapon of my own choice that someone invented, that someone marketed, that I bought, that suits my specific needs and circumstances. 

It is all good.  Now, let's just hope it stays that way.

[Blowtorch53]

Snakeskinner and I must be the only ones who have a problem with this stuff.  I thought it was only me!  I saw a guy at the range yesterday and he told me he couldn't get the Leverevolution ammo. to group at all.  That has been my experience with my Marlin.  The gun will shoot even the cheap Wolf ammo. into a 1-1/2" group at 100 yds. with the 170 grain loads.  All the factory ammo. with 150 or 170 will do this.  Some goes as small as 1".  My handloads are very accurate with hot loads using 150 grain bullets.  I guess that's about all I need anyway.  The Hornady stuff is 3" to 4" at best.  I shoot a lot and I shoot well...but my Marlin does not like the taste of this stuff.  BT 53

[SHOOTALL]

to compare this ammo we would have to have a source that loaded high preformace 30/30 with traditional bullets to see if the bullet makes the difference or the powder !

[snakeskinner]

 I'd like to have the bullet in a moderate load.

[no guns here]

I didn't buy the new pointed stuff because it was "revolutionary" or even clearly superior to standard loads.  I didn't buy it to turn my .45-70 into a .30-06.  I just bought it because it was new and cool.  I don't buy every new and cool thing on the shelf, in fact I very seldom buy anything that isn't well established and well proved.  I just bought it "because".  On the other hand I have a 94 and one box of ammo (old stuff)  from my grandfather.  I'll do my best to kill 18 deer with those 18 cartridges that he left in the box.  The new stuff is not just a gimmick, it's just a new tool.  Of course they just sit around and think this stuff up.  That's what they are there for.  That's why they exist, to think up new stuff to sell so they can make more money.  That's why we have about a gazillion different types of rifles, shotguns, bows, cars, trucks and clothes.  Can't fault them for trying to make an honest profit.  Sometimes they even come up with good stuff.  Why doesn't anyone complain about other new styles of bullets.  Shoot, the Nosler Partition does anything we want it to, but bullet development didn't stop, they just keep coming up with more and more ideas and we keep buying them.

ngh