Recoil, Revolvers and Rookies.......

[Mawgie]

Folks -
I just posted a new topic regarding choice of a new weapon.  I'm presently deliberating over Revolver or Encore.  I'd like some advice regarding recoil and revolvers.

If I go revolver, and I probably will, it will be my first pistol.  I'm 41 years old, 6' tall, (should) weigh 200pounds, and wear a size L or XL glove.  I'd rate my hand, arm and shoulder strength as good or better.  

I'd appreciate some input re:

Grip: Realistically, I won't be able to shoot before I buy.  My plan is to handle as much as I can to determine what feels most comfortable. Please advise your thoughts as to what to  look for as I handle various weapons, and what to avoid.  (I anticipate shooting with a two hand grip...)

Single v. double action: I'm inclinced toward single action, but haven't completely ruled out a Raging Bull.  Even if I buy a DA, I anticipate shooting it SA style.  Is it true that the amount of recoil generated is not related to whether the gun is an SA or a DA?

Caliber:  I'll probably go with a .44Mag or a 480 Ruger.  I know and fully expect that shooting this gun will take some getting used to, e.g. many, many range sessions, starting with light loads, but I look forward to ascending the learning curve.  Are either of these calibers too much gun for a first revolver? (I do plan to handload for either gun, once I buy it.)

Thanks for any input.

Regards-Mawgie

[Big]

I have a Ruger Super Redhawk, .44, 7 1/2" barrel, Hogue grips.  I like it, but it kicks hard; keeps me from going through as much ammo as with a 9mm.

I can't answer all those questions for you, but I can tell you this: keep your arms straight when you shoot a .44, or you'll get an imprint of the hammer spur in your forehead.

[JohnK]

Is it true that the amount of recoil generated is not related to whether the gun is an SA or a DA?

Correct, the amount of physical recoil has nothing to do with the gun design. Felt recoil has everything to do with the design however. Felt recoil  is subjective, it's how the gun feels when you shoot. Physical recoil is the energy the gun/ammo generate back towards the shooter. No one will be able to tell you what will feel comfortable to you, I don't mind the 454 or extremely heavy 45 Colt loads, a friend of mine who's been shooting for about 15 years now doesn't even like mid range 44 Mag loads. It's all subjective. Have you fired 44 Magnum or higher revolvers before at all?

The nice thing about handloading revolvers is you can load them as light as you want, all you need is enough powder to push the bullet from the barrel, from there you can load up to whatever recoil level you can handle.  For hunting in the lower 48 you won't need to load to the max for either the 44 or 480, they'll both take anything walking in the States with the proper load.

Since you're going to be handloading I don't think either a 44 or 480 are to much for a first revolver, but the 44 will be easier to find components for and will be cheaper.

[PaulS]

Mawgie,
Get a double action - it has more versatility for later on when you are ready for it. Shoot single action at the range - the trigger pull is less and the accuracy is better when you first start out. Use the lightest loads you can shoot - if you reload (and I would recommend that you do) load some jacketed bullets with just enough of the faster powders that your gun will reliably handle them. (why jacketed?) The less work you have to do AFTER shooting the more interest you will have in going out to shoot again and lead bullets require more cleaning than jacketed.
Start shooting at a 25 Yard rapid-fire target at as close a distance as you can (say 3 - 4 yards) and when all the bullets go through the same hole back up one yard. It is important to see good results in the first few trips and shooting at close targets lets you learn to hold and fire your weapon consistantly while getting "in the black" strokes your ego. When you get to the point where you are shooting well at 25 yards then start adding velocity to your ammo. As you add velocity you will have to adjust your sites because the faster the bullet gets out of the barrel, the lower it hits on the target. Keep adding to the velocity slowly and if your groups start to radically increase then start hiding an empty chamber and see if you are starting to flinch - If that happens drop the loads back down and work up slower. If you get  a Ruger you can dry fire at home to practice trigger control and sight alignment. I practiced by holding the gun in a position that allowed me to balance a dime on the front sight while firing double action. When you can keep the dime on the sight for all six shots (dry firing) you have developed fair control.
A safety note on dry firing:  Put your ammo in a different room when you are practicing and when you are done if you load your gun (I always do) be sure to say OUT LOUD, "GOING LOADED" then put the ammo in the weapon and the weapon in the holster. (I have a friend in the local police who got a phone call while he was dry fire practicing and as he was on the phone, loaded his weapon and placed it in his holster. He got off the phone and drew the gun from the holster and killed his kitchen cabinets, the range, the wall between two apartments and the neighbors cabinets. The bullet was found lodged in the outside wall of his neighbors apartment. They weren't home and the manager helped him make the repairs without reporting the incident (because the manager had had a similar experience with a 12 ga. a couple of weeks before) and the neighbors never had a clue that anything happened.) This was with a 357 magnum - a 44 mag will go a lot farther!
Have fun, be safe and take your time.

PaulS

[Duffy]

I would opt for the 44. If you don't have your loading equipment right away you could always shoot 44 specials in it to get the feel of the gun. Just remember to clean the cylinder with a brush before shooting mags in it to remove the crud left by the shorter specials.
On the felt recoil of different handguns heres what I feel when I shoot them but remember everyone's different.
The Ruger SA rolls up more than back and will twist some with a heavy load. 75/25
Ruger Super Red Hawk comes more straight back but still rolls up some, kinda 60/40 with some twist on heavy loads also. (more so on the 454)
S&W mod 29 comes straight back into the web of my hand and can get painfull after a while. 25/75 Beings I haven't shot a Tarus but they are similar to a S&W they might be the same.
The Encore is sort of in between the S&W and the SRH.  The Encore also has a longer trigger pull than the revolvers and if you have shorter fingers it can be a problem by making you cant your gun or pull to one side.  
 One other thing to look for is the room between your middle finger knuckle and the trigger gaurd, of course different grips can help there too!  Hope this helps some and good luck on your new purchace!
Ryan

[chk]

I bought a S&W 629 Power Port and I love it. It still has a kick but it's straight back. I load 210 gr Rem. HP bullets to around 1150-1200 fps. I shot a buck season before last and I got complete penetration through the shoulders. This load doesn't kick too hard and is accurate. If you get the  Black Hawk Hunter check out the new Bisley grip. Dave

[JohnK]

Beings I haven't shot a Tarus but they are similar to a S&W they might be the same.

The big Taurus revolvers have quite a bit less felt recoil than the S&Ws, to me. A friend has the M44 Taurus, pre-Raging Bull, in 6.5". It's much easier to shoot with heavy loads then a M29 S&W. The Taurus is quite a bit bigger and heavier and has ports to help with the muzzle flip.

[volshooter]

I'd go with the .44 also. I would also choose either a ported Raging bull or a Ruger Super Black Hawk. The RB is ported and does make a "felt" difference in recoil. I will also say that the "plow handle" grip designs of the BlackHawk does reduce recoil to the hand. It lets the pistol roll up during recoil. I find that the harder I grip a single action style pistol, the more "felt" recoil there is. I own both and I feel for my money a single action is better suited for me. I hunt with mine and shooting double action produces big groups. I shoot rats at night (hand held spotlight) in the barn and I shoot the single action faster than the double, well at least with better groups. (#6 shot handloads in Speer cap)
Good luck, Rick

[crawfish]

Until just recently (about three months) I had been a huntgun only shooter since 1989. I have a rather large selection of hunting handguns in calibers that range from 22lr to 45-70 and .411JDJ. Many of the larger calibers are Thompson Center Contenders with scoped 14 inch barrels.  I do have 10 revolvers a Ruger Single Six in 22lr a S/W 29 .44RemMag and the rest are all in .41 caliber. I shoot lots of ammo on my off time. I really enjoy shooting the .41s' and much of that shooting is very heavy hunting loads. I can do long, many round sessions with the .41RemMag and have real fun without much difficulty. Just 20 rounds of .44RemMag is more than enough for me. I don't like that S/W29 at all but I have a S/W 657 (same frame, size, weight) in .41RemMag that is a real sweetheart to shoot. I have a 45-70 14 inch Contender that is very hard on my whole right side but my oldest son thinks it it the answer to all that needs shooting and will put round after round through that thing and just grin the whole time. What ALL this really amounts to for you is NOTHING. :wink:  No one can tell you what felt recoil is to you. Sort of like a sighted person telling a blind person what red is.  Your very first course of action should be to go to a shop that has a range and rents guns to use on that range. Shoot as many as you are interested in. It will be money well spent in the long run. Do you ever wonder why so many people put "like new" handguns up for sale especially the larger caliber handguns. It is mostly because of "boy do I have a great idea" until that behemoth goes off in their hand then it is "how do I get shut of this thing." DO AS MUCH SHOOTING AS YOU CAN BEFORE YOU BUY it will save you a bunch of grief later down the line. This whole procedure should be fun, if it isn't you might want to re-think the handgun thing. BTY if you don't intend to reload go with a .44RemMag, many more choices in factory loads plus you can pratice with .44Specials.  Also use both singel and double action stuff but in truth it is all used as a single action.

[Lloyd Smale]

id go with a single action .44 mag.

[myronman3]

without a doubt you should get a 44.   whether d.a. or s.a. is dependant on your preferance.   guns i think you just cant lose with   1.  super blackhawk- dollar for dollar the best deal going, strong and relativly easy to learn on;  the way to go if single action is your choice.  2.   taurus raging bull in 44 mag-  the best d.a. made.  this design is way ahead of everyone else.  you have to shoot them to fully appreciate them.  more features  and advancements in design than i care to go into.   the hands down way to go if your choice is double action.   the only downside to this one is the weight.   but that is also true of any d.a. 44 mag.  
i find i never shoot d.a.,  but the taurus is such a good design it is worth the added weight.  
     now a word about caliber choice.   i say 44 because it has all the power one would ever need;  and should be downloaded when the power aint needed.   this promotes good shooting and allows for more practice.   when i was looking at bikes,  i considered a smaller cc until i talked to my dad.   he said "  learn what you are going to ride " .  the same holds true for handguns.  load that sucka down and learn as you go.  raise the power level as you see fit.  
      hell of a decision you have to make; poor soul!  good luck with you choice.

[MePlat]

If I may let me interject a few points about recoil.  First handling recoil is between the ears concerning most handgun calibers.
Next people unintentioally scare some people away from guns like the 44 mag and 454 Casull because of some posts stating that the recoil is horrendous.
Sure they do have some recoil but if one is not scared out of his or her wits before they ever SQUEEZE the trigger on they will be far better off.
I have never see ANY load in a 44 Mag that will bury the hammer spur in anyones head unless they have a loose grip and the gun goes off accidentally. Even then it is unlikely.
Flinching is a mind control issue because your mind is out of control plain and simple.
Do any of you flinch when getting blood drawn? Getting a shot? I doubt it but will flinch when shooting a 44 Mag.  Why?
Would you fight someone that walked up to your wife and slapped her without fearing of getting beat to a pulp?  I promise you that a 454 or 44 won't hurt near as much.
When a shooter lets his mind tell his body that the recoil won't do you in then you will be on your way to better shooting.
I have yet to see anyone that has been maimed or killed by recoil if they have a resonable grip on their gun and at that I don't mean a death grip either.
Just think about it.

[JohnK]

2. taurus raging bull in 44 mag- the best d.a. made. this design is way ahead of everyone else.

Whooo! Not afraid of controversy are you?

I like the big Taurus revolvers but I can see the rounds incoming from that statement already. At least on some boards there would be, most of the people here seem to like Taurus.

In my opinion the Super Redhawk is a superior double action 44, but I certainly wouldn't mind having a Raging Bull.

[volshooter]

I gots me a Raging Bull in .454 and a Super Red Hawk in .454 too. I like the Bull better .  The Bull's barrel is shorter but only looses about 30 fps with the same rounds and just to me now, the Bull's recoil is less than the big Ruger. I think the ports may have something to do with it. I also like the double lock up on the Bull.
Rick

[Big]

MePlat,

If the shooter bends his arms while firing a .44 mag, that counts as a "loose grip," and the hammer's gonna hit him in the head.  I've seen it happen.

Why do you slap your wife?

[Duffy]

John K, thanks for the recoil report on the Tarus revolvers.

I usually always bend my elbow to help take up some of the recoil and havent gotten beaned yet! Guess my arms are just longer.

[MePlat]

BIG:  I shoot with a slightly bent arm and I shoot handguns that have a great deal more recoil than a 44 Mag and I haven't been beaned yet.  Not saying it can't happen but I've never seen it.
I saw it once with a 454 Casull but there again it was with a guy that you couldn't tell anything too.  He knew it all.  Even then it was the front sight. And it was off the bench.
Again I shoot guns that are more powerful than a 454 and shoot with a slightly bent arm.
I guess anything is possible. But, the 44 Mag is not a very heavy recoiler with anything that can be reasonably stuffed in it.

[volshooter]

My loose grip shooting SA's is locking one/both elbows but not griping thre "plow handles" hard , letting the pistol rise IN my hand instead of letting all of the recoil  raise the hand itself. A slightly bent elbow works good too with a loose grip.  I read once that "the old timers were really on to something with the shape of the grips, it allows some of the recoil to be spent on thrusting the barrel upward as opposed to backward" I'm not suggesting a wussy hold but not a death grip either. Just enough to control the pistol and besides, the less human interference with the pistol/rifle, the less our bodies have a negative effect on groups.
Rick

I guess I got my shooting style from Bow hunting. The hand that holds the bow must be to the point of almost droping the bow, during shooting, to miniumize to twisting effect the holding hand has on the bow. A tightly held bow will tourque and send shots left/right. Best bow grip for me is web of hand, thumb/index finger OPEN. After release the bow is caught before it leaves the hand. A wrist strap is great for this.

[Big]

Yup, the guy whom I saw do it, you couldn't tell him anything, either, but he had his arms bent beyond that comfortable break in the elbow.  So, anyway, my whole point in mentioning that was to warn the feller who had never shot a .44 before to be aware that the gun does "back up" more than say, a 9mm.  All psychological issues aside, it's just plain physics.

I'm just hoping I get to take it out hunting this fall; my county doesn't allow handguns or rifles for deer, so I'll have to travel.

[Questor]

Mawgie:

It sounds like you're in the same situation I was in a few years ago.  I'm about your size, but my hands are always XL.

I ended up with both a Contender and a double action 44.  The single-shot gave me the versatility I wanted. With the same frame and different barrels I've shot squirrels, prairie dogs, deer, sheep, and a few other kinds of critters.  But when it came time to go hog hunting I wanted a repeater because these are animals where one or more follow-up shots may me necessary in a hurry.

So it depends on what you want to hunt and how you want to hunt it.

[Tom W.]

I've had a Ruger SBH .44 mag 5.5inch s/s for years. I also have a Blackhawk 5.5 inch in .45 Colt. My youngest son's first revolver is a SRH with the 9 inch barrel in .480 Ruger. He's just a skinny college student, but wouldn't trade the .480 for anything. I have about 90 of his empties on my bench behind me awaiting a powder charge and a bullet seated in them. We've both fired all three of the aforementioned revolvers with one hand, and did not come away mutilated. Recoil is subjective. I don't mind going to the range with 100 rounds of heavy loads for either of my revolvers, and shooting them all before I leave. Some folks feel that 20 rounds in a .44 is a bit much. The worst recoil I ever felt was from a very light single shot  H&R shotgun shooting 3 1/2 inch turkey loads. after about two shots, I was finished, and have never been even remotely tempted to do THAT again.
Get which ever one pleases YOU, and wear ear protection. The amount of recoil seems to be related to how much your ears hurt after a shot. :lol:

[Mawgie]

Folks -

Thanks to all for taking your time to reply.  My hunting partner vows to purchase another TC Contender in 35 Remington, to replace the one he sold years ago.  As I said earlier, since I have the Encore frame, I'll go encore pistol, if I go singleshot, but in a light rifle caliber so I can hopefully shoot circles around my hunting buddy.

As for all the input on recoil, I really do appreciate.  From the long gun perspective, my 50 caliber inline muzzleloader loaded with a 320 grain saboted slug "feels" like it kicks much less than my Browning BPS pump shotgun loaded with a similarly weighted 2 3/4' slug.  

The poster who said recoil is between the ears is right, at least for me.  When I pick up the inline, I can mostly settle right down and shoot it.  With that dang Browning (soon to be for sale, I should add) I always seem to take more time getting myself squared away behind the gun to try to minimize the thump.

I also have 12 gauge doubles that belonged to my Father and grandfather from Parker and L.C. Smith.  They have great sentimental value and when I pick them up and fire them, they honestly don't seem to kick much at all.........

So, for me it all boils down to this:

I'll buy a revolver, unless the sway of more potential accuracy for the very rare long range shot during hunting season, or the fun of shooting a gun similar to my hunting buddy when we hit the range together wins out and I opt for an Encore pistol in a light rifle caliber.

Many folks go with the Contender/Encore pistols because they can buy a safe's worth of barrels and reloading dies on the comparative cheap.  That's not me.  If I go Encore pistol, it'll be with one hunting cartridge, and maybe, just maybe, a 17HMR, just to keep the red squirrels in line.

Anyway, my buddy from work and I are headed down to the Sheriff's Dept. to get me my paperwork for a pistol license this week.  He just put a deposit down on a S&W 686 Distinguished Combat Pistol in .357.  Nice gun, but a little light for deer, in my rookie view.

Thanks again to all....

Shoot safely, and into one ragged hole......

-Mawgie

[Paul H]

Starting with the 357 is the right choice.  

I'm a huge, huge fan of the 480, and will state that it'll do everything the 44 will do, as well as what it won't do, while not beating you up the way the more powerful rounds do.  The downside is you have to be a handloader, and better yet a bullet caster to take advantage of that versatility.  Even my 3 y/o shot it with a mid range load, 310 gr @ 950 fps and me helping him hold it.  I don't recomend the 480 for 3 y/o, but the only way to educate him into what I was saying about him probably not enjoying shooting it, was to let him shoot it.  He didn't ask to shoot it again.  I have a feeling if I had any 310's loaded @ 650 fps, he would have shot a cylinder full.  The nice thing about big guns is they can be loaded down to little gun levels, but little guns are always little guns.

As far as single shot vs revolver, I sold all of my contender stuff after realizing I never took it in the field, and didn't have any plans to in the future.  They way I hunt a scoped rifle and iron sighted sixgun compliment themselves nicely, the single shot pistol never seemed to fit for me.  

And don't knock the .357 for deer, so long as you understand the limitations of the 357, IMHO, it'll make you a better hunter then relying on a bigger bore to take shots you wouldn't with a 357.  Also, after firing several thousand rounds through my 480, I never realized how much fun a 357 is until I traded my contender frame for the only gun I regret parting with, a Ruger old model 4 5/8" blackhawk 357.

[Mawgie]

Folks-

I KNEW it.  This bug is biting my a**.
.44 Magnum?
.480 Ruger?
.41 Magnum  (small, but rabid following)?
.357 Magnum?

Well, I have no choice now but to start pestering you experts in a new post I will call: "Rookie Revolver Buyer needs a Caliber".