The war... Be prepared for an increase in AMERICAN deaths..

[ironglow]

   The "choose to lose" crowd in Congress are threatening "pullout".."cut off of funds" and other measures intended on pulling the rug from under our gallant troops..
   
  Whenever they do this.. The terrorists know how to manipulate "useful idiots"...so Al Queda makes a special effort to kill as many Americans as they possibly can !

       Those in Congress that propose such a thing KNOW full well that the enemy is exercised to kill more Americans !

  Therefore..the only way they "support the troops" is to support the KILLING of our troops..

      I hope they spend the rest of their lives trying to wash the blood off their hands..as has been said Pontius Pilate did..

[magooch]

So far, the surrender monkeys can't raise enough votes to get anything passed.  They are mostly pandering to their radical, liberal base, who have completely gone berserk, because they can't get their way and they thought they would when the Dumbycrats got control of Congress.

It seems to me that they would figure out that if al Qaeda really wanted us out of Iraq, they would just cool it and stop with the violence.  I believe what they really want is for us to leave before the Iraqiis can effectively take over, so that it looks like we ran out with our tails between our legs.  They want it to look like a victory for al Qaeda and our Dumbycrats are more than happy to oblige.

[superjay01]

Terrorism is an idea, and because of this it will never be defeated. As for the idea of stabilizing Iraq well that will never happen either, because the people of Iraq do not want a democracy. There was a reason that Saddam ruled that country with an iron fist, and that was because that is what is needed. The only thing this war is doing is making America less safe. The reason for that is two fold. The first is simple, war funds will run out. Sooner or later China is going to quit loaning the U.S. money and in fact start to collect the debt that we owe them. The second is that the troops fighting this war are taxed, their is not enough equipment. Both these reasons makes the u.s. vulnerable to other enemies.

[ironglow]

  So, how would it help to cut the funds for the troops while they are engaged in the fighting ?

[GatCat]

What concerns me ( and I have a son serving there ) is the possibility of a copy of the Tet Offensive. Even though it was a tactical debacle for the NVA & VC, the media ran with it. From that point on it was politically a hot potato, a lost cause.
I can see something like that happening between now and September, to feed into the cut and run crowd.
Mark.

[magooch]

Yeah, the Iraqis don't want a democracy--I guess they proved it when such a high percentage risked their lives when they voted in their elections.  By that standard, I guess we should assume that we Americans don't really want a democracy.

Terrorism is an idea; well, someone has to have that idea and those someones can and should be killed before they come to kill us.  Our troops are doing a good job and if weren't for political correctness they'd be able to do an even better job.

Maybe we won't succeed completely in Iraq, or Afghanistan, but it is a justifiable and noble undertaking.  We didn't totally succeed in Korea, but does anyone think that South Korea would be better off today if we hadn't tried?  I remember a lot of talk about "we shouldn't be concerning ourselves with running Saddam out of Kuwait."  Does anyone think that Kuwait would be better off today if we hadn't?  Oh, I know, who cares what happens to any of those Sandniggers anyway?  Well, I think we are all going to care as oil gets more and more expensive.

[ironglow]

   There was a time when the Japanese had an "idea"..they gloried in dying for their god (Emperor Hirohito)..they would perform mass suicide "banzai" charges, hundreds jumped of the cliffs on the final tip of Okinawa...and they had many stellar performers in "kamikaze" airplanes , suicide subs and torpedoes..

  Can't stop an idea ?

   How are these people doing today ?

                                  Has their attitude changed ?

                                                              Can we learn from history ?

[superjay01]

They don't want a democracy, it's not in the Arab culture to have a democracy it's that simple, not everyone wants to be like America and that is fine. Yes they might have voted woo hoo for them. I don't see them try to form a government that lets all three "parties" have a say what is going on in the country. Instead they are all fighting for absolute power. My question is what job are the troops doing to begin with? The way this war has been planned and executed is a complete and udder failure. The violence in Iraq has done nothing but increase since we invaded the country.  How is it justifiable to waste 75 trillion dollars and countless soldiers lives while all while making the u.s. less safe? I'm sorry but the u.s. is not the police of the world. If I remember the good ol boy when he first ran for president he said that the u.s. would not do nation building(like bill clinton did in the 90's). Yet that is what he is trying to do,(which he is doing a horrible job at).
You can kill all the terrorist you want and you still won't be able to kill them. Maybe the u.s. should worry about protecting targets in the u.s. instead of wasting money in Iraq.
If you want to be noble and take on an undertaking maybe we should feed some of the starving people in Africa? That is a true noble undertaking.

[ironglow]

  Right;

   Just let them keep hitting us ..and we stand still and play rope-a-dope...

      An old military axiom.." The best defense is a vigorous offense."

[nomosendero]

  Right;

   Just let them keep hitting us ..and we stand still and play rope-a-dope...

      An old military axiom.." The best defense is a vigorous offense."

No, that is too logical & most did not learn from WWII.

[powderman]

  Right;

   Just let them keep hitting us ..and we stand still and play rope-a-dope...

      An old military axiom.." The best defense is a vigorous offense."

Agreed Sir. We are in a war, like it or not. Good vs evil, islam against the world. POWDERMAN. 

[magooch]

I have no doubt that those who are most vociferous about the fallacies of this war against terrorism, would be just as adamant that we should have attacked Iraq if President Bush had chosen another course.  It's obvious that they hate George Bush and it doesn't matter what he does, they will condem him.  I think he understands this and is doing what he thinks is best for America.

I might not agree completely with how the war is being conducted, but I'm not a general and I'm not politically correct.  I said when the war got started in Iraq that it should be short and sweet.  Dubya's father, understood that our (the American people)  patients with any military action is short. 

The war on terror has one over riding factor and that is that we must kill every last terrorist; that is going to take time.  The trick is to get the terrorists to gather where they can be identified and then disposed of.  Iraq has served pretty well in this capacity, but I think we should be using bombs instead of bullets to do the exterminating.

[ironglow]

  The simple fact is that detractors from the present way of prosecuting the war..like Kucinich, John Scarry,  "Shampoo" Edwards and Nancy Pa-lose-ee gripe every day about that..
  Fair enough..but they should then lay out a strategy for going after the terrorist networks and DEFEATING them..

  A strange thing about wars..the enemy doesn't cooperate ! The antagonists are continually trying to outsmart each other and they work for every advantage they can get..whether it is military or media related.

  No war we ever fought was executed perfectly, that's not the nature of warfare..

  Just a small rundown of some incidents:

  French & Indian war;
  Braddock and Washington should have used a lot more "scouts" before they tried to ford the Allegany river above Ft Pitt..
 Revolutionary war:
  We should have kept our "cool" a bit better at the square in Lexington..
   Washington should not have trusted Benedict Arnold.
  War of 1812:
  We should have either moved the capital earlier or defended Washington better..
  Civil War:
  MacLelland should have been more aggressive during his whole tenure..
   Lee should have invested the heights at Gettysburg  as soon as he arrived.
    Spanish/American war.
    We should have kicked both the Spanish AND the Muslims out of the Philipines.
   WW1:
    We should have been ready for mustard & chlorine gas.
  We should have invented the tank rather than the Britons..US was home of the Holt tractors, which were used to base the first tanks upon..
    WW2:
      We should not have slept into Pearl harbor..
  We should have had competitive fighter planes at the start of the war..we didn't..
   Korea:
   We should have expected the Chinese to enter the war on the side of N Korea.
  Vietnam:
    Just about as we were ready to "turn the corner" in Vietnam..the Dems in congress cut off funds for the military..

     Any demands to have a war run "as the politicians would like" in spite of what someone like Gen Petraeus says, is bogus, ill-iinformed and political pandering at it's best....or rather, worst !

  I believe that many on this forum would join me in saying that generally, our gallant troops out there in Iraq, Afghanistan and other points of the war on terror..are much higher quality people than the politicians back here that are continually trying to devalue the service they (the troops)are doing...

[FourBee]

Hey Ironglow:

     The Heading on your Post is what urged me to write.
Two weeks ago while attending Church my 84 year old Pastor began to weep.    He said he felt a heavy burden for our nation, as though something awful was about to happen.     I'm just an ordinary man, and don't pretend to be anything special, but as he was relaying this to us  I had this thought pass through my mind. "  THERE'S GOING TO BE A WAILING COME UPON THIS LAND ".   It still crosses my mind, and as I see the news about the way our government is acting, that thought I had may be more than just an imagination.

[ms]

If we don't bomb Iran and Syria we can't win. Bush don't have the guts to do what is need to win He said him self that Iran is killing are boys over there with there bombs. Politician are running this war making money and are boys are dying for it!

[SHOOTALL]

Why can't we win ? that statement makes little sense to me ! terrorism is a couple of ideas , one is the idea that they instill in their own people , brain wash in effect . the second is the idea that their target is unable to stop them !
We will take punishment up to the point that we get really mad , fighting mad , and we will clean house . First our house then their house !
At some point we will decide to destroy all who threaten us , we choose not to today in a effort to not be seen as a bully
which is pure BS !
Lets look at the first idea , most people in Iraq most likely could give a flip about us , they just want to live . they are used only because they are in the middle ! Our track record is to leave our allies when they need us , we walk away when the going gets rough , not on the battlefield but under the pressure of world opinion on the political front ! no wonder we are not trusted !
The second idea well Japan woke up the sleeping giant and i feel that old giant is getting irritated once more !
yes the party in power can't get its way , so what ? it seems alot of voters want a new party , maybe its time to get new blood running things ! that's how we start cleaning our house ! then maybe when the politicians can't get a job done and call on the military they will allow them to get rid of the impasse not just soften it up ! which always comes back to haunt us ! that is getting their house in order !
If you feel we are doomed and can't come back , please step to the side . You are only in the way !
The only example i can think of is the allowing of citizens carrying guns , crime has gone down ! and we were told for years it would never get better ! well when we start making the ones who hurt us pay dearly bet it stops either when they wise up or we eliminate them altogether , either is winning and doable !

[ironglow]

  Fourbee;

   I share your pastor's apprehensions...we obviously cannot go much farther with the past successes if we do not become the 
  " UNITED " States again.
   
   We are suffering from a "culture war"..neglect has allowed the "enemy within' to prosper..
   
  What are our chances at that ?  Are the "secular regressives" likely to catch on to the error of their ways, such as political correctness, special rights for perverts, and the holocaust being  pressed upon our pre-born boys & girls  etc.. and become God-fearing, patriotic Americans again ?

  Are we who are traditional Americans and believe in the Constitution, Bill of Rights..worshipping God and respecting our flag and nation..are we
    likely to desert our deeply held principles ?
 
   MS;
   
    We are in a fix..Bush prosecutes a war on terror and overall does quite well in Afghanistan,outstanding so far, in the homeland and it's taking longer than planned in the Iraqi situation.
 
    If it is working like the Marines I know figure it is, the Iraq time line is not excessive..The Marines figure they are drawing terrorists from all over the middle east, along with a fair number from eastern & western Europe. They are drawing them to Iraq ..and then killing or capturing them there . Rather like calling in any varmint..
  Bush may or may not have the guts to go at Iran & Syria, but we will never know..the Kennedy , Schumer and Pah-loosie types , along with the Major media would do their best to torpedo the President's and the troops efforts..just as they are doing now !

   While Bush at times, looks soft..can we even conjure up a vision of Hitlary, "Shampoo" Edwards or Barak Hussein Osama..er..ah..Obama..committing our military to really cleaning out those devil's nests ?

  Our only chance would be with the possibility of a patriot running for the office..Thompson, Hunter, Huckabee !

[ms]

Why can't we win ? that statement makes little sense to me If you are not willing to stop the enemy supple lines from Iran and Syria then we should come home. There know reason why are boys can't beat those guys. Let them fight bush has are boys on trial here in this country that's bs you send a man to war then tell him he's not fighting fair. The people over in Iraq have been fighting against each other for about 700 year it's about religion. We all know who sponsor terrorism it's Iran and Syria .

[Dee]

   The "choose to lose" crowd in Congress are threatening "pullout".."cut off of funds" and other measures intended on pulling the rug from under our gallant troops..
   
  Whenever they do this.. The terrorists know how to manipulate "useful idiots"...so Al Queda makes a special effort to kill as many Americans as they possibly can !

       Those in Congress that propose such a thing KNOW full well that the enemy is exercised to kill more Americans !

  Therefore..the only way they "support the troops" is to support the KILLING of our troops..

      I hope they spend the rest of their lives trying to wash the blood off their hands..as has been said Pontius Pilate did..

Ironglow I understand your point but I believe that the heathen Muslim group Al Qaeda, is ALREADY making that special effort to kill as many Americans as they possibly can.
I would agree that congress is full of idiots, but I also believe the white house has it's share of them also. Especially where it counts. As your prediction is somewhat morbid, and to say the lest disturbing to those of us with sons there, I wish the hell we had never went over there in the first place, and consider it a WASTE of GOOD AMERICAN BLOOD as the Muslim is not worth helping and their government is as useless as the proverbial mammary glands on a boar hog. We will fail, because we have hooked up with a bunch of losers, in the Iraqi people and their self-centered paper government, whom were corrupt BEFORE we appointed them. You truly cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and the Muslim truly fits that description. They WILL NOT do their part, which will in essence cause the failure, and it IS causing it.JM2CW.

[powderman]

MAGOOCH. Agreed Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[FourBee]

Magooch;  you hit the nail on the head.
They will be gathered together and exterminated.   The place is called 'Armageddon'.

[magooch]

Dee, I certainly understand your frustration, but it doesn't help to accept the left's spin.  The present government--as feeble as it seems to be--in Iraq is not the one that the Bush administration would have preferred.  We did not appoint their leadership, it was elected by the Iraqis.  Remember the purple thumbs?

If their government was nothing but a puppet, wouldn't you think that they would be more cooperative?  Actually, it might be best for us if Iraq's government were a puppet; maybe we could pressure them into paying for the cost of this struggle with their oil.  That doesn't seem to be happening.  And personally, I would have no problem burning gas in my rigs if I knew it came from Iraqi oil.

[Dee]

magooch, do not mistake my ANGER for frustration. I NEVER endorsed the Iraqi invasion. I did the Afganistan one, because that is actually where the 911 participates trained. It has long since been ADMITTED, that Iraq played no part in 911. And yes, I am fully aware of th purple thumb celebration  during their election. However, there is not one single democratic government in ANY Muslim country, nor will there EVER be. It is a D.C. generated PIPE DREAM. The Islamic THEORACY will not support or ALLOW it.
It this idea of; "I had rather fight them in Iraq, than over here" is also idealogical BS, as 911 happened "before" GW decided to go into yet another little NATION BUILDING adventure.
Our government is in bed with our enemies (Russia, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, China, and on and on), and have entered into an era of "PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE POLICY, which is to say, let's hit'em for what they MIGHT DO, or MIGHT BE PLANNING TO DO.
Interview a soldier not hand picked by the media, or pentagon, that has been fighting house to house in Baghdad, and ASK HIM if the Iraqi people want him there. The soldiers are told DAILEY that they (the soldier) has no right to come into their homes. These soldiers and others are GETTING OUT OF THE MILITARY because of our FAILED FORGIEN POLICY of BULLYING COUNTRIES INTO AMERICANISM. I love my country, I support the troops, I have one in Baghdad, this is his second trip to Iraq, and he has fought in Afganistan. He isn't a office clerk, he isn't a mechanic, (rest assured these type of people are needed), he is a COMBAT SGT. with the 82nd Airborne.
Democracy in Iraq is truly a PIPE DREAM because of their heathen religion, and D.C. is out of control. You may wish to call me a pacifist, but rest assured sir, I have proved my willingness to fight for a GOOD CAUSE, with my own blood. And so have my sons, and my uncles. I am not a lemming, I see what is actually there, not what I am told is there, or I WANT to be there.

[superjay01]

very well stated Dee. The other thing that concerns me on this whole war on terrorism is the money that is being spent on it. I mean sooner or later the u.s. is going to have to pay that money back to China and where is it going to come from?

[powderman]

I was not aware that we  were borrowing money from China, never heard or read about it til now. 

[.308 Win.]

  I wasn't aware we were borrowing money from China, either.  If we can't afford the war, we should have not gone in the first place.  Don't misunderstand me, I was all for the war in the beginning because I thought our men and women were going to be allowed to actually fight and win.  The problem I have in this whole affair is that when our military goes over there, the rules of engagement are different for the enemy than they are for us.  The playing field is not level. We worry far too much about what the international community thinks and why should we?  Most of the people from Europe aren't there with us anyway.  To hell with what they think.  We've got a war to fight, they don't.   
  In WWII, we didn't concern ourselves with who or what was underneath where we were bombing, we just did it because it had to be done, period. We won that war on two different fronts as I recall!!!  Too many of us Americans have had it too good for too long and now we've  become pacifists.  The American people have lost their taste for blood and revenge in the years since 911.  Don't let the passage of time take the edge off of the memory of what these heathens did to us on that day.
 Another thing, all this political correct b.s. makes me want to blow chunks, too. Let our fighting men and women do their jobs without worry of court martial for doing the killing they were sent there to do.  If we'd have done that from the get-go, all of this would have been done and over with a long time ago.  I wish that God would send some lightning bolts down here and fry Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Hillary and the rest of those U.N.-loving socialists.       

[superjay01]

I was never for the war in Iraq. For the fact that Iraq wasn't the problem, I was all for going to Afghanistan and I also thought that we should have went into Saudi Arabia and cleaned that country out as well, after all 21 of the 24 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. The war in Iraq was never about 9-11, terrorism, or democracy. It was simply about money. Yes, we are in fact borrowing money from China hand over fist to give to Halliburton and company.

[Graybeard]

Yes, we are in fact borrowing money from China hand over fist to give to Halliburton and company.

Show us your evidence.

[powderman]

Yes, we are in fact borrowing money from China hand over fist to give to Halliburton and company.

Show us your evidence.

Yes, please do, I don't believe it. Sounds like a dumcrap rumour. POWDERMAN. 

[Dee]

I don't know about the Haliburton issue, but China own a little over 71%  of the home mortages in the U.S. and Japan, owns about 22% of them.