Hunting in Africa

[jro45]

I just got back from a hunt in Africa, using my 300 Rem Ultra shooting 200 gr Partition bullets at 3045 FPS.
I shot a Wart Hog, a Zerba, Gemsbuck, and a Links cat. All over 200 yds shots except the cat 10 yds with a shot gun. Great Hunt.

[Dusty Miller]

Sounds like a really fun hunt, got photos?

[WL44]

Where did you hunt?

[jro45]

WL44,  I hunted in South Africa about 3/4 down toward the Indian Ocean.

[Redhawk1]

Who was the outfitter?

[JJHACK]

Are you sure it was that far south? Zebra and Gemsbok don't occur there?

[jro45]

Sorry JJHack but they do exsist because thats were I shot them at.

[jro45]

Who was the outfitter?

The outfitter is KUBUSH SAFARIS. Got them out of a hunting magazine.

[Redhawk1]

John, do they have a web site?

[JJHACK]

You can shoot them in Texas as well, but that is not where they are from.

[jro45]

I tried it and did not get a web sight. So I guess not.I have a E-Mail address that I can get in touch with him. It belongs to one of his PH's He can get his E-mail Address If you want to talk to him.

[jro45]

JJHack I know the don't come from Texas.

[JJHACK]

Nor do they come from the Eastern Cape.   Man may have released them there but they are not natural in that habitat.

[jro45]

JJHack, I didn't hunt right on the eastern cape. I was 2.5 hours drive up to get them. Or about 3/4 down from the top of South Africa The Country. Africa is alot of different countries.

[JJHACK]

Matters  not, that is nowhere near the habitat of the gemsbok, it's OK lots of people there only understand Africa as one place with all the game being from the whole continent. That's unfortunately not the case. Most of the country outside Natal, the Limpopo and the NP are put and take just like Texas. It's just the way they do business there.

It has become such an embarrassing situation with people shooting game outside the natural habitat they should be living in that the PH organisation(PHASA) is now working with the Nature Conservation to change the laws. Hopefully in the coming years people will only be able to hunt natural game in it's original habitat. Not game captured and released in locations it would never be found naturally.

The Eastern Cape Hunting operations have been banking on the fact that Americans just don't know where these animals actually live and go home thinking that they were hunting natural wild game.

[WL44]

I apologise for the long post and slight thread drift. JRO45 it sounds like it was a good hunt - I like the Eastern Cape (hunted there April this year). I'm hoping these comments aren't taking from your experience at all.

JJ I hear you - and partially agree. If I understand correctly you aren't necessarily objecting, but trying to clarify things and favour transparency (as I do as well). At one time many of the species were very widely distributed - I suppose its often just a case of how far back we go.

JJ, I'm sure you know all of what I'll say below and hope that you agree, but for the benefit of some of the others...

I agree in that I'd like to shoot the trophy Gemsbuck in the desert and the trophy Kudu in the Eastern Cape and in the Waterberg (northern bushveld) (they differ somewhat) and a Bushbuck in the Eastern Cape, or KZN etc. to get the "feeling of the whole experience". But the Texas comparison whilst technically mainly accurate it is a level different at least again and possibly not an entirely fair comaprison.

Much has changed and to hunt Africa will possibly more and more mean private land. We also don't really "go on Safari" anymore in most of South Africa. This is still do-able with tented camps and hunting concessions in "Africa-elsewhere" - but I haven't done that yet either myself.

However offering many species close to each other must save some expense for the hunter. It means that a shorter hunt with less traveling and more available species can be arranged. There are many places where the habitats are very similar to what you would find where the animals still occur naturally. In the Eastern Cape Zebra is an example and there are very bushy parts of Namibia where Gemsbuck occur naturally. You may also find parts of the Eastern Cape that have semi-arid region type vegetation. You may also sometimes encounter domestic cattle whislt hunting where the land is a mixed type farming operation - that can be a bit disturbing (domestic cattle are also a key component to game farmer's tic control in many areas and this benefits the game).

Also if the game farmers aren't able to offer all of this competitively the business will be lost to other areas of the country and even maybe other countries altogether. That will be bad for the industry and for the survival of game animals as a whole. Many people aren't aware that private game farms are something like 4 or 5 times the area of the Kruger National Park in total size (if I recall). Remember SA is generally private land and not concessions (or is concessions over private land).

JJ I hear you and agree and feel that outfitters MUST be transparent about it. I also know that there are moves afoot by the conservation authorities. Do I think it's a bad thing in the current set-up? Not necessarily, as long as people understand how it works.

Much of the hunting throughout South Africa is to some degree put and take as land for hunting is privately owned and run as a business. Sometimes numbers of game animals are depleted and restocking occurs. It is often game-fenced and captured animals are released (including those that occur naturally in that area) to improve the gene pool, or simply boost numbers, particularly if it was a very dry year for example.

The survival of the Black Wildebeest and the Bontebok are both attributed to the efforts of the first "game farmers" if I recall starting more than 100 years ago.

I'm not involved in outfitting, or game farming, or a ph (maybe one day I will make a hunting passion part of a business). For now I just hunt here and pay to do so. I'm not trying to boost South Africa as a destination - there's nothing in it for me except I suppose a good economy in the country I reside in. There are times when I feel I'd like hunters to avoid us due to our onerous firearm control laws as a form of objection to it.... as I believe hunting is affected.

Anyhow - I just wanted to maybe make it a little clearer. This may become a very interesting thread. I'd hunt any game anywhere in South Africa (obviously if it is free-ranging and not recently deposited in an area). But then I have the luxury of also going to all of the "technically correct destinations" in the country from time to time without it costing as much. I'd also like to do an "old style" African Safari some time soon!

Wim
(JHB, South Africa)

[JJHACK]

WL44, good post!

Far to many visiting hunters seem to believe that all African Game lives natural in all of Africa. Far too many hunting operations are banking on that by stocking put and take game from across the continent for the uneducated or uninformed hunters to "shoot".

Having spent the first 5 years of my career in the Eastern Cape watching Kudu and Gemsbok just offloaded and then seeing the excited hunters arrive the next day so "hunt" these stunned and lost animals wandering aimlessly across the bush was very disturbing. Having Zebra shot with hoofs that have grown to twice the length and curl up like a pixie's shoes from the sand veldt is very un-natural. I became so disgusted with those operations that I would not be doing this today if that's all there was.

The absolute dirt cheap hunts are what draw the uneducated foreign hunters to that area. Nobody hunts there for general bag game because it's good, they hunt there because it's cheap! How much of a hunt would Americans respect if there was a game farm in Florida that was offering hunts for Dall Sheep, Musk Ox Moose, mule deer, Elk, Mtn goat, big horn sheep, Grizzly bear, Etc. Yet all live in North America naturally.

There is absolutely no difference then shooting general bag plains game in the Eastern Cape. A whole lot of relocated animals for hunters to come and just pick off like an arcade at the carnival. If anyone really thinks they have hunted and earned a wild free ranging Kudu in the grassland they are greatly mistaken for what gives those animals the reputation they have. Hunting a Kudu in the bush is a completley different and proper experience.

As far as putting so many animals together to make it more affordable...................well they are in Texas and you can save the time and cost of the 17 hours of non-stop air travel.  I would not be at all excited about hunting Dall sheep in Florida on a high fenced game farm and feel no different about hunting un-natural game of any species in Southern Africa either. 

[Graybeard]

Perhaps the REAL truth is that most hunters just don't care.

Now I think it highly unlikely that in my life time I'll ever see any part of Africa. At times I think I'd like to go and at others I totally lose any interest in the trip. There are some African game that I'd like to take but whether I do so in the specific area to which it is native or somewhere else is of no importance to me and I suspect that is so of most hunters. Having said that I'm sure many if not most would like to savor at least part of what the "African experience" is whatever that is to them. But I figure they at least most can do that anywhere in Africa and whether the animals killed by them were ever or are currently native to that specific area they hunt or not really doesn't enter into the equation.

I realize there are folks who do not feel that way but the fact that the Eastern Cape area is being hunted so much and so are exotics in TX tells me most really don't care.

If I have to hunt them inside a fence in Africa which is now mostly the case then I personally could care less if I shoot them in Africa or Texas so long as the fenced area in TX is large enough that the fence plays no real role in my hunt. I'm not able to do much walking and can't take the heat very well these days either. My medical conditions weight heavily on what I can and can't do these days. Were I to go to Africa for the game I'd most likely insist most of my time be spent at a water hole as I'm just not physically able to walk around all day in the heat or walk around much regardless of temperature. It would matter not to me therefore if my hunt was in Africa or TX so long as the animals I wanted were available and that a fence didn't really figure into the hunt from my perspective. If that fence is a mile away from me and I can't walk half way to it what concern is it to me? None.

[Don Fischer]

Sounds to me like a lot of people are not going to Africa to experience Africa. Sounds more like they go to say they hunted there and that they killed something there. Hunting the Dall Sheep in Florida, it would be a let down if you didn't kill one. But how could you be let down after a trip into, say, the Brooks Range but came back MTY handed? I think in each case the whole point of the hunt is missed! I have wandered around in the Brooks right on top where the Haul Road breaks over. I have watched lot's of sheep there. Killing one would add little to the experience. It would be the same with Africa. I just cannot imagine traveling that far and spending that much money just to say I killed something in a land I didn't really experience. It is to bad so many people let hunting get in the way of an adventure!

[Graybeard]

I guess I'm not really sure what "the Africa experience" is supposed to mean today. In the old days it did truly have meaning and to "go on safari" meant traveling by foot for days on end, camping in tents at night and having loads of bearers carrying the boxes and bags of gear needed to support such. I believe that Africa is dead today.

Since you now go and stay for the most part in huts, lodges or at times in tents but all in the same spot and each night you return to that spot after the day's hunt what is the "Africa experience" today and other than being in a foreign country how is that different than Texas? How would it be different in say South Africa as compared to the Eastern Cape? I truly don't understand.

I've really never had any desire to "experience Africa" in the matter I think you are referring to. If I had gone or do go it would be to hunt animals not available to me here not to have "been in Africa" which has no particular significance to me personally. It would make no difference to me if I took those animals in Texas as opposed to Africa so long as it wasn't in a tiny enclosure. As I said if that fence is a mile away that's fully 1/2 mile further than my physical condition would likely allow me to go seeking them anyway so they'd still have a half mile barrier beyond my reach before the fence so I'd never know it was there and for all practical purposes neither would the game.

Yes I agree the over all "experience" of a hunt matters to me and often times more so than the actual kill but this "Africa experience" as opposed to any other hunting locale experience just doesn't do anything for me personally. The game there on the other hand does.

[Don Fischer]

GB,

I do understand where your coming from. But to me, Africa is mysterious. It is full of animals I'll probably never see outside of a game farm or a zoo. Those animals bear as much resemblance to the wild animal as a dairy cow does a cape buffalo. I still recall reading John Jobson articles where every trip was an adventure and never a quest for a trophy. I have seen most of this country but the big itch is Africa for me. Maybe someday and maybe not. If I make it, even tho it is drastically changed, it is still there and it is still wild. I am a bit of a romantic when it comes to Africa. Maybe we all have our soft spot, it's just different places. I cannot understand how anyone can go there worrying about the animals they'd like to take. I recall a guy last year worrying about not getting an elephant over 40# and wasn't sure he wanted to spend the 30G's on a lesser one. How sad that a great animal like that boils down to so little. How sad that a man that could afford the hunt, needs to justify it by the size of an animals tusks. Might just as well pay the local zoo 30G's to put their dying old bull to sleep! The zoo could probably use the money and the bull will die anyway.

I wonder just how many people today would even go for a 30 day tent safari? Not many could afford it I bet. How many spring for the horse camp into sheep country anymore, any? The thing that I believe truly made hunting great is being lost by the quest for a trophy and that is sad. Your my age GB. Didn't you read Rourke, Chapstick, Hunter and the rest when you were growing up/ Didn't it inspire anything? It sure did for me. For me, a trophy to hang on the wall would be the least important part of the trip.

[Graybeard]

Yup read them all and more you didn't mention from that age. Jobson was one of my favorites. But no I guess they never gave me Africa fever. I did yearn to hunt the west for pronghorn, mule deer, elk and the north country for moose, bear and caribou but never managed to put the money together when my health was up to the task. I've made one trip to CO for mule deer and elk and that disaster is written up in the Campfire Tales section.

Sure I could have taken a mule deer that trip but it didn't meet my personal standards and so I passed and came home with an unfilled tag and don't regret that. It still wasn't the adventure I'd long yearned for for many reasons. I've tried to set up others several times but usually my health stops me each time I have the money set aside.

I'd far more prefer to hunt any western state, Alaska or Canada than Africa. There is nothing about Africa I need to see or experience but there are animals there I'd like to hunt and take if things worked out for me to do so. While I enjoyed the stories of their hunts there all those years ago the dark continent has never held the alure to me it does to many. Truly the animals not the land would be the only reason I'd go.

[elmer]

Don, I do plan to go to Africa and hope to experience a small part of it, but I can neither afford the cost or have the time for a 30 day safari. I think most people are in the same boat as me. When you read stories and fantasize about those 30 day (or longer) safaris remember they were only affordable to the very elite. While I am not going on the cheapest trip available or hunting the east cape area I am going for a much shorter hunt than I would have liked. Since I am faaaarrrr from being in the wealthy elite I must comprimise my standards a bit. 

[WL44]

in the Eastern Cape watching Kudu and Gemsbok just offloaded and then seeing the excited hunters arrive the next day so "hunt" these stunned and lost animals wandering aimlessly across the bush was very disturbing.

I agree, and know it happens, but have not experienced that myself and whilst it is inexcusable I wouldn't call it "commonplace" in my experience.

I think you must just know what the reality is. After that you decide.

I want to be very clear that whether or not the animals are put and take, they are wild animals and normally well acclimatised to their surroundings. Many are born in the areas where they are, even if they weren't naturally occurring there.
 
Much of the terrain is sufficiently similar that the animals are encountered in areas very similar to the habitat where they would naturally occur - which is why many thrive all over. So I've hunted Impala and warthog in the Eastern Cape in an area that differed little from a recent hunt in the Waterberg (bushveld). Kudu occur there naturally. Much of the Eastern Cape is in fact Karroo and I've hunted Springbok there in terrain that differed little from other parts of the Karoo where they too occur naturally. I've seen Zebra in the mountains of the Eastern Cape that was not that dissimilar from parts of Namibia where they occur naturally.

The Eastern Cape is not an exception as you can hunt Wildebeest, Blesbuck, Impala and Warthog almost anywhere in SA. I don't think it really matters as long as you know. It certainly doesn't particularly bother me in most cases.

What I'm saying is that provided ethics are in place and properties are large enough and animals are acclimatised to their surroundings (and remember many are born on the properties they are hunted) and are wild animals (which most are) I think it's all fine.

Im not saying there aren't any questionable practices, but I don't view it as the norm by any means. And yes, I would recommend the Eastern Cape as a hunting destination, but to each their own.

It's all about economics I suppose. Our jobs restrict our time, we are short of money... we are a generation after instant gratification... we like a one stop shop / all under one roof environment. We like our creature comforts... and so on. The survival of peoples businesses have dictated that changes be made. In a cold clinical discussion we may feel it is a backward step, but for what we can actually achieve by the fact that it is that way we probably really prefer it.

I think all's been said that was needed, but I don't want people to think that they are out there shooting disorientated farm animals  . It's anything but. Not saying it's a perfect industry, but there are bad apples everywhere. But an animal hunted in the Eastern Cape is as worthy of the chase  as one hunted elsewhere. and the hunter should feel no different. (IMO).

[Ramhunter]

The question of hunting game in an area where it is non-native is an interesting one.  If carried to its extreme, no one would ever want to hunt pheasant in South Dakota because they are not native to the U.S.  By that line of reasoning, the only way to get a genuine, ethical hunt for them would be to travel to China and hunt them in their native habitat.  By a similar line of reasoning, it would be impossible to get a quality, ethical big game hunt in New Zealand (virtually all its big game was imported in the 1800's).  A similar situation exists with red stag and black buck in Argentina. 

While I agree that abuses occur and I abhor "trucked in" put and take big game hunting, I think openness and transparency is the key.  While I have hunted truly wild and open areas of Zim, and I will be hunting the Limpopo area of S.A. next year, I think it is entirely possible to get a quality, ethical hunt in the East Cape.  The key is picking the right operator, asking questions, and getting good references from experienced African hunters. 

[jro45]

I rode around til the animal was found then we got out and walked up the side of the mountain til I was close enough to shoot it. A lot of walking, but not an all day thing.




Thanks WL44

[Sverre A.]

 -

[Peter V]

Ramhunter - I agree with your take here.  "Put and Take" hunting is simply not on, while managed re-introductions of game endimic to an area is good management and has been very successfull in various parts of southern Africa.

While scrolling through the posts on this thread, I noticed a point that perhaps need to be rectified - Zebra (both Hartmanns and Burchells) natural range extends to include the eastern Cape of RSA - so labeling them as put and take or not naturally occuring is not totally correct.

[VX3]

jro45 - Sounds like you had a great experience and a killer hunt.  Good for you.


I think its a shame that someone would want to rain on your parade. 

I too have hunted the Limpopo area and some of the concessions were 50 k acrs.  I never saw a fence the whole day and I hunted/stalked hard but I guess some folks don't see that as "real hunting".

I had less than 2 weeks to hunt 8 animals and RSA was well within my budget.  No way could I have done it free range w/ my time and wallet. 

I really could care less on how I did it.  My experience was amazing and pretty soon I'll have 8 African mounts up on the wall.

I tried a search for you're Outfitter but I couldn't find them.  Do they have a website?

[JJHACK]

VX3, the limpopo is the natural habit off all the plains game listed. It's as real as it gets and the game was put there by God.

The other issue is quite a lot different when the game was captured and released prior to the hunters arriving to shoot them.