First time poster with some caliber questions.

[smithbm]

Hello everyone.  The information on this site is superb.  I've owned H&R shotguns before but never had much interest in the Handi-Rifles until recently.  Indiana just approved the use of rifles that are chambered in straight walled pistol calibers, so I'm chompin' at the bit to get into the game.  I really like what I've read about the .357 Max.  I need some guidance as far as which way I should go to get started.  In a perfect world I would just go down to the shop and pull a .357 Max off the shelf and call it good.  As it is, they aren't available.  I could grab a .44 Mag but I haven't been able to find any comparisons between .357 Max and .44 Mag.  My big plan was to get a 22-250 and send the frame in to get fitted for a .357 Mag barrel which I could then ream out to .357 Max, but that sounds like a tall order just to have a rifle for deer season this year.  I have plenty of high power rifles for varmints and deer (in other states) so I really don't think I need the 22-250.  I'm thinking the best thing for me to do is to pick up a .44 Mag for this deer season and build the .357 Max next year.  I'm a reloader so the availability of brass and bullets will also be a factor.  Can anyone point me to a thread or an article that might educate me a little bit about my choices.  All opinions are welcome and appreciated.

[Cheesehead]

If I were limited to pistol calibers in a rifle I would take it to the maximum and choose the S&W 460 Mag in an Encore with many bullet options for a reloader.

Cheese

[quickdtoo]

Welcome aboard!! The 45 Colt and 500 S&W are also legal for your rifle deer season, unless you get a current production 44 mag barrel, you're probably gonna be disappointed in accuracy with jacketed bullets, older production barrels have a reputation for being overbore and only shoot .432" cast bullets well, but some folks got em to shoot well when pushed real hard with 300gr bullets or reamed to 445 Supermag which would still be legal at 1.610".

The 357 mag barrel is out of stock right now and isn't available at all as a complete rifle in new production, but they do have a batch of barrels coming in a month or so. The Max rifle was made at one time, but they're pretty rare and barrels aren't available, but a bunch here have hand reamed their 357mags to Max, as well as 44 mags to 445 Supermag, reamers are available for rent at 4D, a GBO sponsor.

The 45 Colt would be a fine little brush gun, the 20" barrel will push a 250gr Speer GDHP at over 1900fps and is very accurate.

Same for the 500 S&W, lots of fellas in Mississippi have been using them for their "primitive" weapons deer season.

Have fun and good shooting,

Tim

Cheese, the 460 S&W isn't legal, the case is too long at 1.790".

Rifles with pistol cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms season. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the 357 Magnum, 38-40 Winchester, 41 Magnum, 41 Special, 44 Magnum, 44 Special, 44-40 Winchester, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 480 Ruger, 50 Action Express, and 500 S&W.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/huntguide1/0708_HG/0708_hg_generalinfo.pdf

[smithbm]

45 LC is another one that I may be interested in, but I'm looking for a little more than a brush buster (my shotguns fill that role just fine).  500 S&W is out for me because of its higher cost to shoot and the fact that I don't see it sticking around for very long as a handgun caliber.  I'd like to learn more about the .445 Supermag.  I've never heard of it.  If it can shoot accurately out to 150 yards it might be the caliber that I'm looking for.  I'd also like to get a stock with a high comb for use with a scope.  Any suggestions?

[cwlongshot]

Personally, I have never been a fan of the 44cal. The 45 long colt has done everything I could have asked. Please don't discard it as a brush buster and leave it as that, you will be missing out on one awesome caliber. ESP since you reload!!

Here is a story by Jon Taffin on the super-mag: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_46/ai_63772611

The Maxi is my all-time favorite handi rifle!! I am lucky enough to have an original 357MAXI chambered barrel.

 I also have a 500 in a handi and love the caliber. Costs are not a bunch more if you reload 'em. another good thing about these large bore calibers....lead bullets work well on game and are cheaper to shoot.

CW

[quickdtoo]

Here's a bunch of previous threads on the 445SM.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,96997.msg1098243792.html#msg1098243792

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,106960.msg1098307396.html#msg1098307396

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,77100.msg475647.html#msg475647

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,48689.msg283745.html#msg283745

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,67131.msg408433.html#msg408433

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,74558.msg459363.html#msg459363

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,80944.msg497985.html#msg497985

[smithbm]

The 45 long colt has done everything I could have asked. Please don't discard it as a brush buster and leave it as that, you will be missing out on one awesome caliber. ESP since you reload!!

What kind of accuracy and drop are you getting with the .45 LC out to 150 yds or so?  I'm used to hunting with a .243 where I can sight in 1" high at 100 yds and aim dead on at any range up to 200 yds.  I'd like to have something that can perform similarly out to at least 150 yds.

Quick, thanks for linking those posts.  I'm having a hard time narrowing my searches with the GBO search feature.  Can you help me find an illustrated graph of bullet drop vs. yardage for the .357 Max, .445 SM, and 45 LC?  I'm still leaning toward picking up a .44 Mag this season and reaming it to .445 SM for next year (or this year if I just can't wait).  Eventually I'd like to put a nice stock on it with a high comb and a beefy forend, but that may be on down the line.

[quickdtoo]

Here's the calculated ballistics for my 45 Colt Carbine with a muzzle velocity of 1900fps using the Speer 250gr GDHP.

Trajectory for Speer .451 dia. 250 gr. GDHP (45 Colt) at 1900 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.165   0.165   0.165   0.165   0.165
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 800   800   800   800
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   1900.0   2003.6   2.11   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   1789.8   1777.8   1.99   -0.31   -0.02   0.0   0.040673404
50   1684.2   1574.3   1.87   -1.31   0.79   0.0   0.083875493
75   1583.8   1392.3   1.76   -3.06   0.83   0.0   0.129801991
100   1489.1   1230.7   1.65   -5.69   0.0   0.0   0.178646924
125   1400.7   1089.0   1.55   -9.3   -1.81   0.0   0.230589297
150   1319.4   966.1   1.46   -14.01   -4.73   0.0   0.285776436
175   1245.9   861.5   1.38   -19.97   -8.89   0.0   0.344299458
200   1181.1   774.2   1.31   -27.33   -14.46   0.0   0.406160863


Data for 445 Supermag based on Digger's velocities in his Handi.

Trajectory for Hornady .451 dia. (45 cal) 300 gr HP/XTP at 1975 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.18   0.18   0.18   0.18   0.18
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 800   800   800   800
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   1975.0   2597.9   2.63   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   1871.2   2331.9   2.49   -0.29   -0.12   0.0   0.039015249
50   1771.0   2088.9   2.36   -1.2   0.64   0.0   0.080217074
75   1674.8   1868.3   2.23   -2.8   0.71   0.0   0.123767997
100   1583.1   1669.1   2.11   -5.18   0.0   0.0   0.169832664
125   1496.1   1490.7   1.99   -8.42   -1.58   0.0   0.218574128
150   1414.3   1332.3   1.88   -12.64   -4.12   0.0   0.270143661
175   1338.4   1193.1   1.78   -17.94   -7.76   0.0   0.324669487
200   1268.9   1072.4   1.69   -24.46   -12.6   0.0   0.382240371

I'll have to dig a little to find velocities for the 357Max in a Handi.

Tim

[quickdtoo]

I found one of my old posts that has 180gr XTP data by JPH45 at 2060fps in his 357Max, Sierra Infinity doesn't list the XTP, but the 180gr JTC-SIL has a BC of .232 compared to .230 for the XTP, so it's close enough.

After reading the thread below, and you want to know what my velocities were, I never found out, I had it rechambered to 35 Remington.

The google search leaves a lot to be desired, the forum search should be enable after the upcoming server upgrade, but for now it's disabled cuz the server can't handle the huge data base it has to search.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,48606.msg283109.html#msg283109

Trajectory for Hornady .357 dia. (38 cal) 180 gr. JTC-SIL at 2060 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.232   0.232   0.232   0.232   0.232
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 800   800   800   800
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2060.0   1695.8   1.65   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   1977.0   1561.9   1.58   -0.26   -0.24   0.0   0.037164507
50   1896.1   1436.7   1.52   -1.08   0.46   0.0   0.075902120
75   1817.3   1319.8   1.45   -2.51   0.56   0.0   0.116305979
100   1740.9   1211.1   1.39   -4.59   0.0   0.0   0.158472919
125   1666.9   1110.4   1.33   -7.39   -1.28   0.0   0.202501755
150   1595.6   1017.4   1.28   -10.97   -3.34   0.0   0.248491764
175   1527.2   932.0   1.22   -15.4   -6.25   0.0   0.296541617
200   1461.7   853.9   1.17   -20.77   -10.09   0.0   0.346745157

[smithbm]

Thanks again.  It looks like the short answer to my problem is that I'll be perfectly happy with any one of them and I'll probably end up with all of them at some point, so it looks like the .44 Mag is as good a caliber as any to get started with.

[quickdtoo]

Sounds like you're a Handiholic in the making, the best answer is usually ALL of them, just a matter of which is first!!

Tim

[d_hiker]

I am beginning to think that the "First" Handi should be selected by what stock you like best regardless of caliber (as long as it is a SB-2) because you know you are going to change or add another barrel to it sooner or later.