Author Topic: What is your HOME defense weapon? (Read 38137 times)

gstewart44 · « **Reply #210 on:** October 15, 2008, 09:27:24 AM »

Teddy - Goldens are great. I mentioned before I have three big dogs and one of them is also an 80 lb golden. He puts on a great show to strangers coming to the door by snarling and lunging at the door. Very un-golden like behavior but it works. My other two are mixed breeds and every bit as vocal. I have heard some of the neighborhood kids saying that my house has "those crazy dogs in it" Thats a good thing!

dbriannelson · « **Reply #211 on:** October 15, 2008, 09:54:05 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on October 14, 2008, 11:36:57 PM

Don,please pardon my ignorance. What is a ball joint tool?

Bilmac got it right about the tool.

When my kids were still kids I kept a 20-gauge Ithaca Model 37 handy. Number 8 shot, which meant that it could be stopped by walls pretty well.

The kids are grown up and the wife is gone now. I live in the barrio in San Diego, an area of some relatively high crime. I'm not really paranoid, but do keep that ball joint tool next to the door. Usually when someone comes banging on the door in the middle of the night he's drunk and rowdy, but yelling usually gets him on his way. A couple times I've called the cops. I've never used the ball joint tool. And of course I could go get a handgun or that shotgun, but there's no good reason to escalate an incident like that.

The only time use of a deadly weapon (including a ball joint tool) is justified is when you believe your life or that of another is in immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm. The belief must be absolute and at some point both the belief and the threat must be judged real by a court or an investigation.

Even a shooting that's completely justified will screw up your life. There will be legal proceedings, expenses that will probably never be reimbursed, and the knowledge that you've taken another person's life, probably unnecessarily. There are almost always ways to avoid that.

If those ways are in fact exhausted and you must take a life, you've really failed. You've failed to take common non-lethal precautions, failed to avoid obvious threats, failed to use common sense. It's better to have a security door on the house than to shoot someone who you have given the opportunity to break down a cheap door.

-Don

Cheesehead · « **Reply #212 on:** October 15, 2008, 10:01:53 AM »

All good points. Almost anything is better than being murdered.

Cheese

45-70.gov · « **Reply #213 on:** October 15, 2008, 11:14:58 AM »

all of dbriannelson point are right and well put

as much fun as it is to conpare personal arsenals
i hope we all heed his advice and not get any emcouragement to abuse our rights

my 357 smith cintenial j-frame is ALWAYS with me [except swimming or shower
got a 7 shot 357 and 44 mag stashed about the house
12 ithaca 000buck fullchoke locked in a work shop accross the street incase i ever come home to visitors again
bet you didnt think to stash one at a neighbors house

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #214 on:** October 16, 2008, 05:28:45 AM »

so its my fault that someone breaks my door down and attacks me ?

BS

dbriannelson · « **Reply #215 on:** October 16, 2008, 06:06:16 AM »

A police investigation or a court will argue about whether it's your fault or not, and will probably find that it is not. But you can avoid the court thing and its associated costs in time and money by having a door that won't break. And closing and locking it.

A lot of people around here (and other places) seem to think that shooting someone justifiably is cool. It is not. If it comes down to your life (or the life of another) or his, then you do it, but you also know you screwed up big-time. If you can prevent it ever coming down to that choice, you save a lot of grief, time, cost, and the risk of trying to explain to the judge why you got yourself into that situation.

In the Marines it was emphasized over and over that if an officer had to use his pistol, he f**ked up. This extends even more appropriately to civilian self-defense, as civilians are not charged with "locating, closing with, and destroying" an enemy. There is no aggressive role allowed to civilians. There will be credible judges, prosecutors and journalists who will call "entrapment" and claim through conversations such as these right here that you were looking for someone to blow away. And what they say will be heard and considered by everyone. You will lose friends.

(Disclaimer: I was involved with two shootings in the peacetime military that were determined to be "line of duty." I was also appointed Special Court Martial to adjudicate another case. My opinion and advice here isn't some leftist diatribe - it's just things that a lot of people don't know about, but need to know. I am also not a lawyer.)

-Don

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #216 on:** October 16, 2008, 06:37:03 AM »

in the military you go in harms way , if you deploy your men wrong and the enemy gets to you i agree you F%#@ up !

If someone attacks me in my home or on the street and I am forced to defend myself it is not cool on their part .
I have also been in some not so good situations 2 involved break ins at home while i was home the sight of my weapon changed the guys mind so if shooting someone was a goal i passed it up .

we will have to disagree cause if you attack me or invade my home its your fault what happens to you anything else is BS !

SharonAnne · « **Reply #217 on:** October 16, 2008, 06:53:53 AM »

just remember guys. We shoot to STOP! Legally it has to be irrelevant it the perp dies. We shoot to make them STOP their felonious action. When the perp stops his felonious action we MUST stop shooting unless a dangerous situation still exists, like he stopped attacking but still holds a gun. Once the situation is contained we, as the good-guys, call 911 and ask for police and ambulance.

I hope I never need to shoot someone. Even if totally justified it will alter your life in adverse ways you cannot imagine.

As someone earlier said, a stout door can go a long way to preventing an unwanted situation. Yes, someone breaking through a flimsy door to do harm is committing a felony. But why put yourself or loved ones in a potentially dangerous situation when a trip to Home Depot (insert Tim Taylor grunting sounds) might prevent the situation from ever occurring?

Home defense is more than weapons.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #218 on:** October 17, 2008, 05:34:39 AM »

Well said SharonAnne......

Mike Britton · « **Reply #219 on:** October 17, 2008, 06:51:51 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on October 16, 2008, 06:53:53 AM

just remember guys. We shoot to STOP! Legally it has to be irrelevant it the perp dies. We shoot to make them STOP their felonious action. When the perp stops his felonious action we MUST stop shooting unless a dangerous situation still exists, like he stopped attacking but still holds a gun. Once the situation is contained we, as the good-guys, call 911 and ask for police and ambulance.

I hope I never need to shoot someone. Even if totally justified it will alter your life in adverse ways you cannot imagine.

As someone earlier said, a stout door can go a long way to preventing an unwanted situation. Yes, someone breaking through a flimsy door to do harm is committing a felony. But why put yourself or loved ones in a potentially dangerous situation when a trip to Home Depot (insert Tim Taylor grunting sounds) might prevent the situation from ever occurring?

Home defense is more than weapons.

Anybody got any good ideas on how to reinforce a pair of 36" French doors? Wouldn't take much to kick them open.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #220 on:** October 17, 2008, 07:01:32 AM »

the door thing forgets the renter , the poor etc.
If you had $$$$$$ for a door replacement or a gun what would ya do PUNK ?

gstewart44 · « **Reply #221 on:** October 17, 2008, 07:08:09 AM »

I can't reinforce mine (cost effectively that is ) so that is why I have my three big dogs around. they constantly watch the world through those doors and let me and the neighbors know when anyone approaches. the street talk is that my house is the one with the "big crazy dogs". It has been effective and served me well for over 15 years now. Both houses on either side of me and two across the street have had B & E over the years. Some have been burglurized more than once. Only one time did I have someone try to pry open a window....he was met by my 100 lb doberman (at that time) who wanted nothing more than to give him a face-ectomy. the bad guy got away but he did a serious retreat and fell off the window sill onto my cactus plants. The scream normally would have caused concern.....I just laughed and then gave the dog a treat.

bilmac · « **Reply #222 on:** October 17, 2008, 09:38:05 AM »

Cactus hasn't yet been mentioned as a home defense weapon. What caliber. If they are anything like some tough old Wyoming prickley pear that guy will never EVER be back again.

toysoldier · « **Reply #223 on:** October 19, 2008, 09:49:34 AM »

Cholla cactus is winter-hardy in Missouri and Kansas. It's a relative of prickly pear, but has tubular rather than flat oval sections. It is sometimes called "attack cactus" because it seems to reach out and get you. Brushing up against it will often leave a pad clinging fiercely with spines that have a bit of a barb on the end. In a sunny location it will grow waist-high. Be sure to put down a good weed barrier around it, as pulling weeds and grass out of it is something of a problem. Japanese Barberry might also be a good choice, or a bush rose if you don't mind the hassel of rose care.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #224 on:** October 19, 2008, 10:01:59 AM »

i have heard of law suits over yuca plants in florida

Mike Britton · « **Reply #225 on:** October 20, 2008, 05:59:45 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on October 19, 2008, 10:01:59 AM

i have heard of law suits over yuca plants in florida

Hell, people in Florida sue each other for sport!

toysoldier · « **Reply #226 on:** October 29, 2008, 01:24:03 PM »

I was assisting a surgeon who was operating on a 3-year-old with a "foreign body" in his cheek. We found a pointy, fibrous bit of organinc matter. He couldn't figure out what it could be. I suggested he ask the parents if they had yucca plants. Sure enough, the parents remembered tht the child had fallen against a yukka and gotten "scratched".

Still nowhere near as dangerous as honey locust.

williamlayton · « **Reply #227 on:** October 30, 2008, 01:08:34 AM »

dbriannelson has made some good points.
The first thing is too examine yourownself, very carefully, extremely honestly, do the best you can at an honest evaluation of your mental/physical/interpersonal/emotional self.
If you have even the slightest clue that defending yourself too the end results of an up close and personal situation will result in personal mental trauma that you cannot handle---then don't make the attempt and don't own a gun---of any kind.
This experience will never leave you and will never go away--it will always be there. The cost of legal defense is not cheap. There are good ways too keep burglars from finding easy entry that will not result in confrontation and they should be investigated and used.
Burglary is an experience that will leave you haunted and feeling molested also.
IF--a big IF--you do all of the above and find yourself willing and able
Then arm yourownself and shoot the bastard.
Blessings

bilmac · « **Reply #228 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:08:08 AM »

The switch from hunter to warrior is not automatic. I remember when I went to the Army in basic training the first time a man shaped target popped up, for just a split second my mind had to do a double take. Years of safety thinking had conditioned me to keep the muzzle away from such shapes.

Mike Britton · « **Reply #229 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:48:49 AM »

Quote from: bilmac on October 30, 2008, 02:08:08 AM

The switch from hunter to warrior is not automatic. I remember when I went to the Army in basic training the first time a man shaped target popped up, for just a split second my mind had to do a double take. Years of safety thinking had conditioned me to keep the muzzle away from such shapes.

I had more trouble with bayonet training, and hand to hand. It was hard for me to run that knife into what looked like a human.

bilmac · « **Reply #230 on:** October 30, 2008, 05:24:21 AM »

Another wow moment for me was when we started doing scenerios in law enforcement. At times we used paintball bullets in our own guns. There was a kind of double take there when I first looked over the sights at a real human, even though I had been an infantryman in Nam.It was only a split second thing, but I'm was glad to have gone through these mind adjustments in training rather than having to be mentally unprepared if I had had to use my gun for real.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #231 on:** October 30, 2008, 07:24:52 AM »

My mindset has evolved over the past three decades. I had my first bayonet training in 1978 and being young and stupid I never gave much thought to skewering the dummy. When I started hunting a few years later I realized all my high power rifle rounds and most of my handgun rounds resulted in passthroughs.

I started thinking shotgun for home defense and still have that at the ready. However since my kids were born and my eyes have gotten weaker I have reverted back to 1978 and the bayonet training. I practice regularly with one of two swords, bayonet, bowie, and boar spear.

I have three big dogs and would hate for one of them to be on the receiving end of #1buckshot. Should an intruder get past the dogs I would feel perfectly fine defending myself with very sharp steel. And not worry about stray bullets and where my kids might be.

I pray to God I never am faced with type of encounter but I am confident I would have the wherewithall to meet the task at hand.

bilmac · « **Reply #232 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:53:43 AM »

Wart

Just don't take a knife to a gunfight

blackhawk45 · « **Reply #233 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:18:13 PM »

Quote from: buffermop on October 13, 2008, 09:45:39 AM

911

Just a little advice, a GUN in your hand, is better than a COP on the phone !

Glock 23 on my person everyday, and a Mossburg 590, 12ga. stoked with 3" 00 Buck in my bedroom.

Entering my home ,uninvited ,in the middle of the night,WILL BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH !!!!!!!!

gstewart44 · « **Reply #234 on:** October 31, 2008, 03:42:12 AM »

Ok - I've just made a decision to get a Mossy 590 with a bayonet lug and mount the steel on the end of the barrel. Now I have both bases covered.

fedor · « **Reply #235 on:** January 05, 2009, 08:04:24 AM »

I know its a late reply to dbrians comment. It makes sense. When I took my Texas concealed carry class in 2002, my instructor said "if you shoot and kill somebody in your house and its justified, be ready to spend at least $100,000 per bullet in court costs." He then said if its out on the street look a maybe doubling that cost. He then said "What cost would you put on any one of you family members lives." We have a house alarm, heavy doors, and door jams in the rooms we sleep in. I don't see them just as deterrents from break in or home invasion. I also see them as tools to give me time to get to my FIREARMS. Not a bat or a wrench. If I say do not come in my house and they keep trying to break in, I'm not taking the time to see if they're drunk, or high. I know they're after my personal belongings and will most likely do anything to get them, including hurting me and my family.
There are consequences for all of our actions we have to live with. I could not live with myself if any of my family members got hurt for giving a burglar, mugger, convenience store robber or carjacker the benefit of the doubt while trying to reason with them first before I decided to pull out my pistol. I thank God that I have never been in that situation and pray with all my heart to never be in a situation like that. Like dbrian said it will change your life. Are you willing to live with those changes?
Glock 22 with lasermax, nightsights and 3 15 round mags in night stand along with Surefire G6
Glock 19 , nightsights , 1 17 rd and 2 15 rd mags in wifes night stand.
Winchester defender with 7 rds of 000 buck.
Remington R15 with 2 30 rd mags with 60 grain V-max bullets.
Good day and God Bless.

nessmuk101 · « **Reply #236 on:** January 06, 2009, 02:31:14 PM »

Remington 870 12 ga. with #8 dove loads with the cy. choke.

VARMONTER · « **Reply #237 on:** January 20, 2009, 10:27:52 PM »

Ithaca model 37 ,pump, modified choke, #6 bird.

Graybeard · « **Reply #238 on:** January 21, 2009, 03:21:39 AM »

Unless you've "been there done that" already I don't think any of us can KNOW what we'll do should that situation face us. Hopefully none of us here will ever face that day when we have to find out the hard way what we'll do.

But basically if you've not already accepted that it could happen and that if/when it does you'll do what's right and proper for that moment in time then as Bill said above you really shouldn't arm yourself in preparation for a possible self defense situation.

As for me I'll stay armed and try to be mentally prepared and hope I never find out what I'll really do IF it happens to me.

jimster · « **Reply #239 on:** January 21, 2009, 06:35:58 AM »

Yep, no idea what I'd do until it happens. Had to point a gun at someone almost 30 years ago, and I was not ready for that either, and although I did not have to shoot and it stopped the situation, It also pointed out to me I did a few things wrong, and my knees were shaking for a few hours after it happened and after I reported it to the police. I might be a little smarter now on not letting a couple seconds go by, and maybe more prepared or alert, but I still don't know what I'll do when it hits the fan at home or on the street till it happens. Just pointing a gun at someone at that young age was pretty traumatic, I am a little older now and maybe it won't be AS bad if it happens again...but it could be...I don't know. Hope not to find out.

"if you shoot and kill somebody in your house and its justified, be ready to spend at least $100,000 per bullet in court costs."

Well, the last 10 or 12 shootings in this area of Michigan there was no court at all for the ones defending themselves in or out of the house....as soon as it was decided it was self defense, it was over. Not all State laws or prosecutors or situations are the same though, so you best make sure it's at least cut and dry self defense to begin with. I'm lucky enough to live in an area of our State where if it is self defense, they drop it right away. We have a good guy as prosecutor at this time. That could change some day.