Author Topic: Hi Veral. .453 Airgun-Bullet designs?  (Read 1667 times)

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Offline BUTCHER45

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Hi Veral. .453 Airgun-Bullet designs?
« on: July 28, 2007, 12:22:09 AM »
     I was brought here by some comments made by a gentleman on another forum while discussing soft lead vs. hard lead loads for my air rifle that fires .45 caliber non-jacketed lead bullets using a maximum of 3500psi of air.  He mentioned your name and I did a search on the net that brought me here.  I have been going back over this forum and it is a great thing you are doing here.  Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. 
     I would very much appreciate your input on this set-up I have in general as it is quite unique.  I am going to PM you a link to the results of my first time testing this rifle.  This is my first visit here and I don't know what is acceptable as far as posting links to other forums. 
     For anyone else reading this question to Veral this rifle puts out (chrony is ten feet from muzzle) a 180 grain BBC BP Pistol bullet at 780fps (maybe a little more),both the 200grain Lyman #452389 and a 205 grain modified Maxi Ball at 743fps, 230grain Maxi Ball at 690fps and a 265 grain standard Colt 45 bullet at 635fps.  I think I can get a little bit (20 or so fpe) more out of it with a little more pressure and bullet experimentation.  It is ridiculously accurate.  Shot placement inside 50 meters should be no problem.  I have since had the owner of the muzzleloader shop measure the bore with a tool he put down the end of the barrel he said that the land/groove measurements are approx. .450/.453 (possibly .454 but likely correct at .453) with a thousandth-degree margin of error.
     I have yet to test hard-cast bullets through this rifle due to being concerned it might hurt the very shallow rifling of this airgun.
     What are you thoughts on what game this low-velocity .45 rifle is appropriate for?  Particularly bullet selection(BHN?), range limit, and shot selection?
     The largest game I would like to take with it are coyote and whatever size hog it is appropriate for.  Maybe antelope-sized game if I can go somewhere it is legal.  I'm going to be stalking as close to the prey as possible like a bowhunter would.  It makes me feel more like a hunter than a shooter that way.
     In a few months I will be receiving another air rifle chambered in .452 that is more powerful for medium sized game animals like larger deer.  That air rifle will throw a 205 grain bullet at 1020fps.  When I have determined the correct bullets for my purposes with these rifles I will be honored to put in an order for the appropriate molds.
     I will also need very light bullet designs for a .257 air rifle that produces 96+fpe with a 36 grain pellet.  However the .45 is my priority.
     Thank you for taking the time.  Click on picture for a slide show.



                                                                                                 BUTCHER
click here for.45caliberAirgun slideshow

Offline Veral

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Re: Hi Veral. .453 Airgun-Bullet designs?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 07:09:13 AM »
  Thank you for the post on the airgun subject!  I have experimented extensively with casting for airguns, but only for a few spring type and the Sheridan blue streak, which are all quite anemic compared to what you are playing with.  The airguns I've made molds for 177, 30 and 22 caliber, all designed for swag ed hollow base projectiles, and I haven't been able to match performance of the better factory offerings.

  For the type of high pressure airguns you have, which are designed to shoot bullets,  I can offer considerable improvement in performance.  Probably in the accuracy department, but certainly in the velocity and terminal performance areas.  Following are my reccomendations.
  Contact me by email at   LBTisAccuracy@Imbris.net            and I'll work a mold deal (substantial discount) with you for experimentation purposes, and this offer is open to anyone wanting bullets for an air rifle of this type, any caliber down to 22, with the stipulation that any others interested in this offer must have a chronograph.  Understand that what I sell you won't be just an experiment, but a super performance bullet, as I KNOW real close to what the requirements are.  The object is to know how much performance advantage is obtained so readers can know what is available and obtain the same.  So it will probably,  be a one shot offer with each caliber someone writes about, so I can offer a full line of airgun bullets.  I know there is quite a range of calibers up to 50 at least.  It will be my option as to how many molds I make for any caliber, but all can be assured of a high performance bullet.

  Don't even bother experimenting with hard cast, or with bullets with strong enough bearing to be usable in firearms.  They will cause a barrel drag that will reduce velocity dramatically compared to a properly designed dead soft bullet.  By dead soft I mean commercial pure lead with a small amount of silver bearing no lead plumbers solder added to improve castability.

  You will NOT get expansion using pure lead at these velocities.  Terminal performance will be determined by diameter of the meplat.

  Great weight isn't important, but better to stay with something around 200 gr, or even 180 gr, in 45 caliber, and higher velocity than bog the velocity down with 50 gr more weight.   Penetration will not be a concern.  You'll get all the power available is capable of delivering on game the gun is capable of taking on.   Game size being one of your questions.  Use it for anything the 45 ACP will handle.  i.e. Hogs, deer of any size and smaller, keeping shots in the ribs for easiest penetration, and don't take on boars larger than maybe 250 pounds, because of the heavy gristle plate armor on their ribs.  Or brain shots  from the side or if the forehead is presented reltively flat.  (A hogs skull is quite thick and angled steeply, same as a bear, and can deflect even high power rifle bullets.

  Because of the arched trajectory, range must be close enough for precision shot placement, and personal experiance must be good enough that you know the animals soft spots.  You can deck a 2000 pound butcher bull with complete reliability if the shot is placed squarely on the forehead, centered by drawing a mental X between eyes to top corners of skull.  Most butchers kill them with far less bone crushing/penetration  power than you have.

  No cast bullet, regardless of hardness will have any damaging effect on your rifling.  The hardness factor of concern is bore friction alone, which MUST be minimized to obtain optimum power.  In the airguns which I named above as my experimentation, hard bullets won't even make it out the bore, and even stick in the chamber without moving.  This with the RWS capable of pushing its swaged soft pellet out at a claimed, and VERY effective 950 fps.  It will shoot completely through a full grown skunk and kill them instantly!  I foret the weight but 17 or 20 grains seems right.  You have 10 times that at similar speed!
Veral Smith