What is the problem with shooting a doe

[merhunts]

In my past hunting seasons I have talked to some hunters that would rather be caught dead than to shoot a doe. What is it with these hunters. Do they only hunt for the antlers. Do they not know that if all hunters only shot Bucks than we would have so many does we would probably never see a buck. Because there would not be very many to go around.

[R.W.Dale]

Do they only hunt for the antlers

 YEP! and I don't understand it either. To me hunting only for horns would be like paying for an expensive meal at a restaurant to only care what the plates look like.


 Me I would rather shoot a big ol doe, They are usually better eatin

 But I also would be very proud of a nice 12 point buck

[merhunts]

The way I look at it we are all out there looking for a big buck. But if all I could shoot was spikes than I would rather shoot all does. We need to lay off the little buck and let them grow to LARGE sizes.

[WyoStillhunter]

My home state of Missouri has seen the light.  Even as a nonresident I can buy unlimited antlerless tags after paying the out-of-state price (about $140) for the first "any deer" tag.  Even then if I shoot a buck it must have a minimum point count of at least four on one side.  When I started hunting in the early 1960s the total estimated whitetail population in Missouri was about equal to the annual kill today.  Times have changed.

In my part of Wyoming the elk herd is above ideal levels.  For an over-the-counter resident General Elk license I can take any elk the first several days and bulls only the last part of the two week season.  I would like to take a really big bull some day but I am not going to let the freezer go empty waiting on one.  So far my best bull is a 5X5.  Last year I chased elk tracks in the snow a la the Benoit method except I didn't worry about catching up with a bull.  In the end I did my bit to help bring the local herd back toward the desired level.

2006 "trophy" cow

[rockbilly]

Taking older does, or thinning the herd is highly recommended, and I agree with one of the above comments on eating, most often the doe is better table fair.

Most of those that advocate taking bucks only have no knowledge of the management process, and will wipe out the genetics of a herd in a few short years.

As an old rancher, I have asked this question many times to those that will only shoot bucks.   "What is the most important asset any rancher has/"  The answer, his bull. A quality bull will produce quality off-spring, this is true for a quality buck, he will produce quality off-spring too.  That is why you need to let some of the big ones walk.  JMHO.

[merhunts]

I have made a vow to myself, that if I cant beat what I've got on the wall, I will not shoot any bucks. My biggest is a Seven Pointer. So I have to shoot an Eight Pointer to do that. I live in NC and I have only seen a couple large buck in all the years I've hunted, and they were on private land. I have hunted Game land for about 95% of the time I've hunted. I am ready for NC to enforce a antler minimum. I would like to see nothing six point or under can be shot. I Think if everyone that hunts would follow this we would have some nice buck in about three years. It would allow buck of better genetics to breed for a better herd. But not all hunters are going to do this on their own. Even if rules change some hunter would shoot small bucks anyway. On game land its hard enough just to find deer, let alone just looking for bucks. We can shoot all does if we want to. If we tag out we can buy additional doe tags. That should tell hunters that we have an over population of does and to start shooting more of them.


Is it a masculine pride thing that they are less of a man if they don't shoot a buck?

[beemanbeme]

I think some of it is a misguided sense of "game management" and some of it is traits that have been ingrained by generations of hunting bucks only.  And, yes, some of it is "mine's bigger than yours" machoism. 
I figure the paid professional game biologists at the DNR know quite a lot more than the boys sitting around the stove at the store about game management. And so, if the DNR tell me I can kill a doe, I do it with little thought about how long my willie is but more about how those back straps are gonna taste in the skillet. 

[SDS-GEN]

Many people, especially in the east, come from a time, or learned from people who come from a time, when deer weren't very plentiful.  Back then shooting a doe was a sin because the doe was the most important member of the herd.  Bucks could be killed regardless of antler size, but the does were left alone to repopulate a decimated herd.  Now that the herds have grown out of control the "bucks only" mindset needs to be changed but game managers are having a hard go of it.  

Personally, I want to kill at least two does for every buck, and I won't shoot a buck unless its injured or going on the wall.

[Ranger J]

SDS-GEN you probably hit the nail right on the head.  When I first started hunting deer in Illinois, years ago we often got only  a bucks only tag.  One year 17 does and button bucks went under my stand.  Now Illinois and many other states re begging you to shoot does.
RJ

[GregP42]

I am not sure why people don't shoot does, me, I am a meat hunter, that and I enjoy just being out there. Does to me taste better, and there are way too many of them here in Ohio, I will shoot any I get a chance to make a clean kill on.

Greg

[merhunts]

You guys are coming up with some good possibilities. I too think it has something to do with so many years of buck only seasons. I will shoot any doe that offers me a good shot. That being said. I find myself aggravated if I don't see a buck or two by seasons end. I think we all have the mentality that we have to hunt for bucks to a certain extent. I guess we all could work on our own mentality on this subject. We should hunt for the gender that needs to be balanced. Even if that means we have a season where we can only shoot does. It would be my luck if that happen, that's when I would see a buck of a lifetime. 

[dakotashooter2]

Another is the misconception that does are not as "tough" or challenging as bucks. That is a load of horse manure. I've seen mature does out-manuver hunters with tricks that make a mature buck look like a preschooler.

[flintlock]

I don't have a problem shooting does, but I think the difference is that I'm  usually hunting family farms and realize that we have to keep the population in control or we won't have any crops...Last year I killed 5 does and one buck, same with the year before...If I need a challenge, I pull out the flintlock...

[elmer]

I don't have any problem taking does. In fact under Texas' MLD game management plan we are issued extra doe tags based upon surveys to try and keep the herd balanced.

I have a nice 8 point on the wall and unless something better comes along and it is 4 1/2 years or older, or a cull (unbranched on at least one side) I will stick with the does.

[K.K]

With all of today's management data, there should be no doubt that the harvesting of does is a necessary component of healthy herd management. I take advantage of our early bow and muzzleloader seasons to do just that. While I certainly hunt hard for mature bucks, I often come home empty handed. I pass on a lot of young bucks every year, and I know that given time, my property will produce good bucks. I eat a lot of venison, most of it from does, and make no apologies. You shouldn't either.

[Redhawk1]

Like others here, I shoot a lot of doe's.  I only shoot a buck if I intend on getting it mounted and like to better myself with each buck I shoot. I am up to a 10 point, but I will shoot a less point buck if it looks better than the two 10 pointers I have on the wall.  But for eating, the doe's are better.  In Delaware I get 2 anterless tags and 2 doe tags with my license, I can also buy a quality buck tag, the buck has to have a 15 inch spread or better for that tag and I also get an hunter choice tag for any deer. We can also buy as many doe tags as we want for $10.00 each.

Quality deer management is big in Delaware.

[SHOOTALL]

In VA. we get 3 buck and 3 doe tags , can buy more doe tags , the only down side if it is one  would be taking button bucks !
I have to agree doe taste better , I know people doctor up buck meat to help it taste better , but if i wanted some other flavor , why would i shoot a deer in the first place !
Anyway take a doe !

[jhm]

I have shot BOTH, and being one that raised cattle here on the place I knew that if I had 30 cows  and one BULL in the spring I would have 30 calves, however if all I had was one COW and 30 BULLS I would only have one calve, now I know that as far as deer go the buck must stop doing his thing when he has bred one doe (right)?  Its a catch 22 there needs to be a good mix, however the one to one you hear so much about isnt going to happen, as in nature the strongest will do most of the breeding with most of the females.  I really dont have a problem with shooting some of the does, but the State of Ar. had it pretty much opened up for the killing of does a few years back and I dont think some areas have gotten over it yet, the state needs to have their experts out in the field doing a realistic count before saying that the wholesale hunting of certain sexes needs to be increased.  JIM

[flintlock]

Like cattle, one buck will breed multiple does during the rut...Lucky guy...

[rockbilly]

I read a study from a Texas A&M research project that said a dominate buck may breed up to twenty or more doe during the rut.  The genetics from that buck are passed on to the off-spring.  Of course, in a lot of cases, not only is the doe serviced by the dominate buck, she is also serviced by other bucks.

About 30 years ago my place was overrun with small doe, spike bucks, and a big buck was 4-6 pointer.  There was little mass, and size to the anthers.  On the advice of a game biologist, we established a program where we took nothing but spikes and older doe for about a five year period, we also started a supplemental high protein feeding program.  At the end of five years you could see a marked difference in the quality of the herd.  During this period I was also managing a 4600 acre plot next to my place, the management process was extended to this property as well.  In addition, I persuaded several of the area ranchers to establish similar programs.   Today we have a very nice herd of deer, racks are fairly large for this region, and bucks are plentifully, so taking a buck does not have any bearing on the quality of the herd, the genetics have been established and will continue to be passed on as long as some of the larger bucks survive a season. (We had pictures of a massive 14 pointer last year.  I guess he is still  there since no one killed him)

Growing up in the late 40s-early 50s, I am well aware of the shortage of deer in the US during that period, and the restriction on shooting doe to ensure survival of the species.  In my area of the country, it was not only the deer, it extended to the turkey, raccoons, possums, squirrel, rabbits, and many birds.  This was the aftermath of the great depression, and food rationing during WW II.  Had it not been for wild game, our family would have gone without meat on the table.  We raised a hog or two, and always had a milk cow, but beef was exceptionally scarce since most was being taken to support the war effort.  To re-establish the wild game,  limits and restrictions were placed on several species. I think the carry-over from those times is what established the "Buck Only" mentality in some people.  Of course there are also those that are trophy hunters, (on an ego trip) and will only shoot the largest buck they can find.

[SHOOTALL]

Maybe also the idea of Trophy hunting instead of hunting for food has something to do with it , the idea of man being in control of his environment sort of thing ! You know make it acceptable !
Its ok to kill a cow or chicken but a wild animal , oh no ! An animal is eaten if it is born into the wrong speices , talk about profiling and civil rights being abused !
WHAT EVER ! the doe taste good !

[gt2003]

I think its a combination of everything that has been mentioned.  I live in eastern Oklahoma and we are overrun by deer.  Most will weigh less than 100 lbs field dressed.  There is a predominant attitude around to shoot only bucks.  And, like i said, we have TONS of deer.  So, I think some is machoism and some is ignorance of the need to harvest the doe to balance the heard and produce more quality deer.  There are also quite a few older hunters around here that remember when there weren't near as many deer.  They'll pretty much shoot bucks only.  Educate, educate, educate the up and coming hunters.  In my opinion, that's the only way it's going to get better. 

[Savage .250]

Nothing wrong with shooting a doe.  To me it`s a personal choice not too. I don`t shoot spikes either. Again my choice.  Having shot many a deer (Bucks) over the years  I guess I`m more selective . Meaning, if I see something I like, again my choice, then I take my shot.
   If I see nothing I want to shoot who cares. Just getting out has there with the boys at the camp is just fine with me.   Nothing beats bonding!!   I guess that saying,"to each his own" would work here.

[rockbilly]

Savage .250.  Allowing the spike to continue life, and breed only serves to hurt the herd, or genetics of the herd.  Generally speaking, "A Spike, is a Spike, forever!"   Most often a deer the has developed spikes to 5-6 inches or longer will remain a spike all his life.  When he breeds his offspring will most likely be spikes too.  In the interest of management, it is smart to take all the spike deer out of the picture. 

There are exceptions to this rule, but normally a deer will begin to fork first year.  I am not saying you should shoot deer with a two-three inch spike, only those that are 5-6 or longer.  Do this a few years, and see if you don't begin to see better bucks in the area.

[Graybeard]

Savage .250.  Allowing the spike to continue life, and breed only serves to hurt the herd, or genetics of the herd.  Generally speaking, "A Spike, is a Spike, forever!"   Most often a deer the has developed spikes to 5-6 inches or longer will remain a spike all his life.  When he breeds his offspring will most likely be spikes too.  In the interest of management, it is smart to take all the spike deer out of the picture. 

There are exceptions to this rule, but normally a deer will begin to fork first year.  I am not saying you should shoot deer with a two-three inch spike, only those that are 5-6 or longer.  Do this a few years, and see if you don't begin to see better bucks in the area.

NOT true as a general rule even if true in some places. Here in Bama MOST bucks are spikes their first rack. That's to a large extent due to their late birth and the huge over population of does that cause some to not be bred until even a third estrus period. They also don't always have the best forage and that too reduces the liklihood of more than spikes first year. But after that they will almost always have a real rack the next year even tho it will still be small. But given 3-4 years to develop they will most often be pretty nice (for here at least) 8 or more point bucks.

I once saw a captive buck's racks that were kept after he shed each year until his death. The first year was a small spike rack but that last rack was a HUGE one any hunter would call a trophy.

The idea once a spike always a spike came out of a single study at a single location in Texas and has been misapplied all over the country ever since.

[buck460XVR]

I think the notion that Big bucks are the hardest quarry comes from the time when everyone could hunt anywhere and deer populations were small. Before posting your land to keep other hunters out was common, and pressure and habitat were generally the same everywhere in the same general locale, it was usually the big bucks that were the hardest to kill. Yes luck was still involved, but generally it was the deer that managed to live by using  wit, by stealth and stuck to the toughest terrain that lived the longest...thus had the biggest rack(relative to the previous years forage). Thus the hunter that hunted the hardest, had the best knowledge of the terrain and deer habits(plus had a little luck) generally got the biggest and oldest deer. In the same time frame, deer numbers were low and restrictions were put on shooting does legally to help the herd rebound. Those of us old farts know that percentage wise as many does were shot back in those days, just not legally. There's a reason Wisconsin's deer herd rebounded so  quickly after the fine for shooting a illegal deer went from $25 to $1800. So yes, the practice of not shooting does became a macho thing.....and continues  today even tho new info on deer management tells us we need to shoot them. The difference is now with limited access to the best deer habitat and the supplemental feeding and selective shooting.... big bucks get big cause we nurture them and assist them in getting large racks. It no longer takes the better hunter to get the bigger deer...it just takes a fatter wallet or being lucky to know someone that will allow access to these "managed deer herds" that dictates success on the large part(not all, mind you) on big bucks. Even on vast and remote areas of Canada and the western mountains, access is the key to success, and access usually comes at a cost.

another reason is, it's easier for a hunter to come home empty handed and saying he was only hunting trophy bucks...than to say he couldn't find a doe to shoot.

just my 2 cents....didn't mean to ramble.

[Tn Jim]

Like others here I will bust a doe as fast or faster than I will a buck. I have talked to several game wardens here in East Tn. about our deer herds. Most have given me numbers of 12-15 to 1 doe to buck ratio. They also increased our either sex days from 3 to 5 for the first muzzle loader season this year. With that kind of out of whack ratio I figure I'm doing the herd a favor by thinning it out and getting it back to around 3-5 to 1.

[sparkysteve]

I think they taste just as good or better.  We try to shoot twice as many does as bucks to keep a good ratio.  We also only shoot bucks with 4 pts. on a side or more.  This will be our third year with these rules and we have already seen and shot more bucks and bigger bucks, and put more meat in the freezer.

[Savage .250]

Rockbilly:
    Your opinion is so noted but like i said, it`s my choice.  What you do is entirely up to you. 
    My retort is not ment to stir up anything but to simply state my position.
     Your looking at it as a management practice ( I think) while I`m just making a choice.
     Or, put another way, they`ll be more spikes for others to shoot as my choice has let them pass.
      In the end it looks like both missions accomplished. Spikes culled. My choice, well....just that.

[elmer]

GB, We typically see 4 to 6 points on the 1 1/2 year olds. I have been told that wasn't the case back when the ranch was overrun with deer. I did shoot a spike last year as a cull, but it had 6" spikes and we aged it at 4 1/2 years. I have read articles by "experts" argueing both ways. Bottom line form me is "it depends". How old is the buck, is it a drought year, etc.