8x57 jrs?

[myronman3]

what can you tell me of this cartridge?  a gun shop has a drilling in 16x16 gauge and 8x 57 jrs. i dont know a thing about this caliber, but it is the neatest gun i have ever handled.   

[Drilling Man]

  Great cartridge, i load mine to just over 2,500 fps with 200 Nosler partitions, and i've used it on everything from moose and bear on down with excelent results...

  Basically, it's a 8x57 Mauser "with" a rim, loaded to slightly less pressures than the rimless version...

  DM

[dougk]

what can you tell me of this cartridge?  a gun shop has a drilling in 16x16 gauge and 8x 57 jrs. i dont know a thing about this caliber, but it is the neatest gun i have ever handled.   

Who made the gun and how much was the shop asking for it?  The balistics on the 8x57 jrs are rather interesting.  Nice round...

[myronman3]

it was made by kesser?  or something similar to that name.   they are asking 3500 for it.

[dougk]

thanks.

Does it come with the claw mount for the scope?

[myronman3]

i dont think so, but i am going there in a few minutes and i will check

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

One gun for all!  That's the beauty of the Drilling.  If it is tight, better still with scope mounts, then don't walk away.

8;  is the nominal diameter of the bullet in milimetres.

57;  Is the length of the case in mm.

"j";  or actually "i" for "Infantry".  Indicates the case is related to the case for the issue army rifle.

R;  is for "rad"  or more commonly translated as rim. The only difference in case shape is the rim.  You can reload with regular 8 x 57 dies. Usually a belted magnum shell holder will work.

S;  indicates that the rifling is the deeper form required by the "S" or spitzer bullet.  The normal bullet diameter for the "S bore" is .323 rather than the earlier bore of .318 diameter. When evaluating German 8 mm cartridges the presence or absence of the "S" in the description is VERY important.  There are many older Drillings in 8 x 57JR in circulation.  Usually they are in well used shape.  Don't shy away if you find a good one as .318 bullets are available, and ordinary loading dies still work. The only caution is to stay with low pressures for older guns.

This is a very useful cartridge.  It is usable for all game in North America.  The Luftwaffe bomber survival kits in WWII had just such a gun, in just this calibre.

[dougk]

Very interesting break down of the cartridge.  Thanks...

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

BTW;  Its dead easy to make cases by running well-lubed .444 Marlin cases through an 8 x 57 sizing die for both varieties of 8 x 57 R  (with or without an "S")  For light small game loads use cheap .303 Brit cases (works even better for 7 x 57R)

[Drilling Man]

  I personally would NOT use 8x57jrs cases in "my" drilling that were made from 444 Marlin brass...  The rim on the 444's are not the same thickness, and there's no way i'm going to "crush" one of those in a gun that's "tight and on face" like my jrs is!!

  I've not found any better brass than RWS and it's available in all kinds of german cartridges, so why use bastard brass in a nice drilling?

  DM

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

I agree that proper brass be used where it is available.  I have a good supply of RWS brass in 7 x 57 R for myself and Norma for my son for our Brno ZH304s.  I have made a few out of .444 to experiment, but stopped when the necks wrinkled on the 8mm to 7mm step.  The Brno breaches differently than other combos, and I didn't have a problem, but now you have heard from the master.

The purpose of my post was to point out that all is not lost when brass is rare, like it can be here in Canada.

COTW3d lists the rim thickness for .303Br., .30-40 Krag, and .444 Marlin as .063 to .064.  I don't see a reference to the rim thickness for the German rimmed cases.

PS:  Just went & measured some cases. 
RWS 7 x 57R went .0595. 
WW .303 BR went .0605.  R-P 30-40 went .061

[Drilling Man]

  I haven't measured the rim thickness of 444's in many years, but when i got my 8x57jrs i cerrosafed the chamber.  The first thing i noticed was the difference in rim thickness from 444's, and looked elseware for brass to make up some cases.  I made my first 20 cases from 7x65R brass, as i already had some of those around.

  Perhaps things have shifted around a bit these days ? but RWS brass is so good i've stuck with it.  In fact, i bought 5 more boxes a couple months ago as i figure it's the last 8x57jrs brass i'll ever have to buy.  I only shoot it for hunting these days, so a couple hundred cases is a life time supply...and then some!

  DM

[Drilling Man]

  I have a lathe project that i was working on in the shop this afternoon, and it reminded me to bring my calipers in with me this evening.  (Mitutoyo digitials)  Anyway, i thought i'd measure some rims and post them here...

  (4) RWS 8x57jrs twice fired case's... .0490", .0485", .0475", .0500"

  (1) RP .444 Marlin  once fired .0600"

  (3) RWS 9.3x74R  twice fired .0525", .0490", .0500"

  I can't remember what the 444 rims measured long ago when i last measured some...  Anyway, it "wouldn't" be too hard to chuck up some 444's in the lathe and face them to .0500"   

  DM

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

It looks like care is required.  Apparently 7 x 57 R and 8 x57 R cases have DIFFERENT rim thicknesses?

[jw4570]

Sellier & Belliot is loading 8x57 JRS, two loadings.

My father used some in his Drilling in the SPCE form.  He bought it just to shoot and use the brass but he said they shot so well, he said the heck with it, I'll use these.  I mean for like 100-200 yard ranges.

I think he used to use 444 Marlin Brass, but that was years ago (1970's??) when brass like this was non existent. 

I think the next time I visit, I'll see if he'll crack out the Drilling to shoot, even if it's at clay pigeons.

JW

[jw4570]

PS,

regarding the following:

This is a very useful cartridge.  It is usable for all game in North America.  The Luftwaffe bomber survival kits in WWII had just such a gun, in just this calibre.


I thought the Luftwaffe Drilling was generally chambered in 9.3x74R.  I have only ever handled one, and it had the case with it.  It had some rust on the barrel (shame too).  So, my experience is limited.  But 9.3x74R approaches 375 H&H, a good bit stronger than 8x57. 

I'm not saying there wasn't Lutfwaffe Drillings in 8x57 too, as they could have made other models.

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

You might be right about the Luftwaffe drillings being in 9.3 x 74 R.  I may have been letting my "random access memory" free to wander?