243 Handi Bad day at the range

[snakeskinner]

Had lotsa fun with the 10/22 with the GM sporter taper. Squirrels better watch out if within 60 yards. Son will put the smackdown on them. Moved to the highpower range and boresighted the 243 handi. First shot at 25 yards is dead center 4" high. Make some adjustments and move back to 100 yards and second shot is in bull but offcenter 1/2" right. I am really liking this. Went down hill from there. I have read all the postings and threads about the 243 so I knew what to expect. I didn't expect it to be as bad as it was. Third shot was low left 6 inches. Now I know you must let the barrel cool but I think this is ridiculous. There was plenty of time for the barrel to cool after the first shot since I had to adjust the scope and walk the target back 75 yards and then come back and sit down. The gun would just not group. The bullets were strung over an 8" range. I don't even know what ammo I was using because it came from the PO when I bought the gun. I can't believe they can sell a gun that won't shoot factory ammo. Don't get me started on factory ammo.  Never could get any of it to shoot out of any HP rifle I own. I don't reload. I have some friends of mine that have done it for me in the past.
We continued to shoot with a hot barrel so my 11yo son could get used to the recoil.  He shot it as best he could. He was really excited about the rifle for deer hunting but now he is really turned off. He even told me to sell it that he would just use my 30/06. That should not be a problem since we will be shooting from buddy stands with railings. He's killed one deer with it already.
About the gun, NEF Superlight Handi Rifle youth with Nikon 3-9 x40, Leupold base with double strap rings.
Other than just ranting in this thread can I ask "Is it hopeless and more trouble than it is worth to try and make this gun work?" I beginning to think so. The only thing I have done so far is the o ring thing and the rest in back of the forearm deal.

[poncaguy]

Try Winchester Ballistic Silver tips or Federal Fusion 95's. My 243 was a pain for  a while, but I kept shooting it and working on the forend and it now shoots a little over an inch.........

[quickdtoo]

The superlight 243 is not only picky about ammo, but pretty heat sensitive too, mine will shoot the 80gr Rem into 1½"-2" at 100yds in 30-45 second intervals, but handloaded with Stimpy's 100gr Speer loads, I think it will do much better, I didn't get to shoot all the loads today, so that's still a work in progress. I did a semi pillar bed on the synthetic forend, I drilled the forend stud pocket in the forend out to ½", then put a short ½" OD x ¼" ID nylon spacer from the hardware store in the pocket to float the forend so it only touches the barrel at the back end at the front of the chamber swell, and at the stud, seems to work very well, no vertical stringing whatsoever. I did have to use a longer ¼"-20 x¾" forend screw tho.

Tim

[whiskey101]

Well I am wondering the same thing. I have almost given up on the .243 Superlight Youth. I ordered a .223 Superlight to see if it will shoot any better and to get my daughter used to more recoil than a .22LR. I am not going to spend hours and hours fixing a new gun. I will send it back to H&R and they can figure out how to make the .243 shoot. I was allowing several minutes between shots and getting 6 inch groups at 50 yards. I may try some of the lighter loads before mailing it back, but I am definitely disgusted with the gun I bought. To me a picky gun is one that may open up to 3 or 4 inches at 100 yards with ammo it does not like. Not a gun that won't stay on target with anything I feed it.

[PartsMan]

Have you broke in this rifle.
A lot of handis don't dial in until 100 rounds or more.

PS If ether of you give up I'll take that barrel off your hands.

[RWK]

You should not have to go thru 100 rounds to break it in, theres some thing wrong! Rich

[~Ace~]

You should not have to go thru 100 rounds to break it in, theres some thing wrong! Rich

MOST of the Handi Barrells I have took at Least 100 rounds to start shooting GOOD, my Bull Bbbl .243 was the same, looked like a Shotgun till about 75 rounds, about an inch as it neared 100, and if I do my job, there all touching now at 150+

[hellacatcher]

That is a lot of ammo just to break one there should be a easier way. A fellow could go broke just breaking one in.

[stimpylu32]

A good bore polishing should knock that number down quite a bit , I hand load and like to shoot-in my barrels so the round count is not a problem for me . That said , i can see were buying factory ammo could cost a bunch .

The SL's can be shooters but it would NOT be my first profile choice in ANY rifle , Handi or otherwise , they are just to unperdictable . 

I don't think that i have spent more than 50 rounds to get one to come around other than the 450 Marlin that would never shoot well . As for my 243 SL , it took some work to find a round that it shoots well and now i'm working on another bullet weight to see if i can make it work too .

stimpy

[snakeskinner]

I bought the gun used so it has had some through it but I don't know if it was more than 100. However, like has already been said you shouldn't have to go through so many hoops to get an off the shelf gun to shoot well enough to hunt with it. Certainly there is someone at NEF that can go into a meeting and tell everyone else that this rifle is a POS what can we do to get it to shoot better out of the box else we might as well expect sales to start to suffer now that the internet is here.

[~Ace~]

I bought the gun used so it has had some through it but I don't know if it was more than 100. However, like has already been said you shouldn't have to go through so many hoops to get an off the shelf gun to shoot well enough to hunt with it. Certainly there is someone at NEF that can go into a meeting and tell everyone else that this rifle is a POS what can we do to get it to shoot better out of the box else we might as well expect sales to start to suffer now that the internet is here.

Certainly they can put Match Barrells on them, but the price will No longer be... Handi

Harmonics, Barrel Wrap up and Heat sensitivity are things you should Expect in advance when buying a Light Barrel.... there are reasons people after ACCURACY use Heavy barrel Bolt actions... When you go to the opposite end of the spectrum, don't expect the same results to come easy. Some Barrels will NEVER Be Shooters, there are to many variables and steps in making them. Sell it on E-bay before it's to late, and buy a Heavy Barrel. ~Ace~

[quickdtoo]

There are numerous tips in the FAQs to get better accuracy out of a Handi, they all apply to the superlight barrels as well, while the 243 is the most finicky of the 3 superlight barrels, they can be made to shoot very well as Stimpy and Howard NZ have shown, it may take a bit longer to find a load they like, but it can be done. If however you feel you have done all you can working with factory ammo, give H&R a call and they'll likely have you send it in, it could have a defect that is causing the poor groups.

I had mine at the range yesterday, shot a few different loads in it, the Remington 80gr PSP, and Stimpy's 100gr Speer handload shot the best, the Remington group below was shot within 2 minutes, probably closer to 1½ minutes, the other load was shot with 10 minutes between shots, bear in mind the ambient temp was over 91º at the range when the 100gr load was shot, so no a lot of cooling was happening!! All shooting was done at 100yds, grid on the targets are 1" squares.

Beside semi-floating the barrel which took about 15 minutes to do, I lapped the bore with flitz about 50 strokes on a patched jag, this was a new barrel that I just bought from holahead which I thank for the good deal!!

Tim

[holahead]

Glad to help you out buddy.

[RWK]

Now do'es nef or h&r send us the money to buy all this ammo, guys there is something wrong. When you spend money on something you expect it to work, not some time down the road. And then its a maybe!!!!!!!! Rich

[.308 Win.]

Ace,
  I've GOT to know, WHO is the dude in the picture you have posted under your screen name? 
  Snakeskinner,
  As far as the barrel problem goes, there is a product made for this problem.  Craig Boddington had an article on it in Guns and Ammo and it is a factory loaded bullet that uses grit embedded in the bullet to kind of sand the inside of the barrel as the bullet passes through it.  Takes the rough machining marks that cause poor accuracy down in a fraction of the time. The magazine is at work but you might be able to find the article on their website. There are two grit sizes to a box, one more coarse than the other.  If you can't find it, I will get back to you after I go back to work on Monday.       

[quickdtoo]

One member tried the Tubb's bullets in his H&R, accuracy went from bad to terrible!! I wouldn't recommend that treatment in the shallow rifled bores of H&Rs, mild lapping with flitz or JB is one thing, but even the finest abrasive on the last step of the Tubb's bullets may be too coarse.

Tim

[stalker1]

One possibility that hasn't been talked about yet is the scope and related hardware. As posted in different threads, check for things such as loose screws on the base and rings. Threadlocking compound of some kind may need to be used. The scope and rings you are using are definitely quality but could still possibly be a problem area. Consistent full trigger pull is another thing to think about with the transfer-bar mechanism used with a handi.

stalker1

[PartsMan]

CHEAP, GOOD, FAST
Choose 2

If you want a good shooting rifle now then go buy some
$1000 guaranteed MOA rifle.

[whiskey101]

CHEAP, GOOD, FAST
Choose 2

If you want a good shooting rifle now then go buy some
$1000 guaranteed MOA rifle.

I have to disagree with that. I don't own any expensive rifles. I do own some savages, winchesters, henrys, marlins and H&R. None of these were more than 500.00. I don't mind spending a little time and money to get my Superlights to shoot. I would rather they shoot out of the box, but if I can fix them I will. I need the superlight for size and weight for my daughter. I have to find a way to make it shoot. I have enough bullets left that I can get to the 100 rounds fired mark and then I will test again.

I scoped the new .223 superlight last night. I hope to get to the range and get 100 rounds fired out of it this weekend. We'll just have to wait and see.

I have never belived in "breaking in" a barrel. I have never had too. I am not so smart that I can't learn something though. I am going to keep an open mind and keep asking a lot of questions and see where I end up. If nothing seems to work, there is always GOODWILL, do they take guns?

[PartsMan]

I don't mind spending a little time and money to get my Superlights to shoot. I would rather they shoot out of the box, but if I can fix them I will.
[/quote]

This is what I am talking about.
You can have a good shooting $200 rifle if you don't mind spending some time on it.
Some have gotten lucky but most of us have had to find the load, fix the forearm, and break in first.

[30-06man]

I didn't have any problem with my handi. i wanted my 30.06 so i traded it in

[mitchell]

might as well expect sales to start to suffer now that the internet is here.

i don't think so everybody known for a long time that the 243 superlight is a POS rifle but any of the other 243s will shoot circles around any other handi , and for that matter most bolt rifles . just look at mine i have the best 243 handi there is

[statelinerut]

Me too Mitchell I have the best one around here. I have the regular Handi and love it. It has always shot good right out of the box. I also have a 223 that is the same. The reason I shoot the Handi Rifle is I cannot see enough difference in a rifle costing $500 more that makes me want to purchase one. Both of my Handi's shoot inch groups off my crappy bags and the guys I hunt with are getting just about the same results out of their Brownings and Remingtons. I just cant see it. I think some people just like having a gun that says Remington or Browning and if that makes them more confident then by all means more power to them. If you don't mind doing a few minor adjustments to get the Handi shooting right there with the higher priced rifles, then the Handi Rifle is for you.

[30-06man]

mine is the ultra light and i love it. like i said i had no problems with it. i had mounted a cheap scope expecting just to be a temporary gun. i had a tasco golden antler on it. then i upgraded to walnut stocks from nef and a Nikon scope

[~Ace~]

Me too Mitchell I have the best one around here.

  Um, We may need to have a lil Competition to decide that ! 

[statelinerut]

mine is the ultra light and i love it. like i said i had no problems with it. i had mounted a cheap scope expecting just to be a temporary gun. i had a tasco golden antler on it. then i upgraded to walnut stocks from nef and a Nikon scope

Handi's are too addictive. I am already looking at getting an additional barrel for mine. Cant decide if I want a 7-08, 308, etc. I just cant decide. I do not need one I just want one

And yes Ace we need to get together and see which one shoots the best. I can predict already which one will because we already know who handloads and who does not I should be right there though

[mitchell]

Me too Mitchell I have the best one around here.

  Um, We may need to have a lil Competition to decide that ! 

we did !!!! what was it about 2 years ago now man time flies by fast .

scroll down to the third pic http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,79053.msg488957.html#msg488957 . wanta play?

[mgeorge]

One member tried the Tubb's bullets in his H&R, accuracy went from bad to terrible!! I wouldn't recommend that treatment in the shallow rifled bores of H&Rs, mild lapping with flitz or JB is one thing, but even the finest abrasive on the last step of the Tubb's bullets may be too coarse.

Is the rifling of an H&R more shallow than in other rifles?  I guess I never really thought about that... I kinda figured that they were all about the same...

[quickdtoo]

In some chamberings it's very shallow, ~.002", others are much deeper.

Tim

[snakeskinner]

What I always thought was odd is my 243 SL's barrel is larger in diameter than my A-bolt 30/06. So what exactly is the difference between the superlight barrels and the standard barrels of the same caliber? Could the 2" shorter barrel make that much difference?

I've decided to give this gun a second chance. It has too many other merits. It's the perfect gun for my 11yo. I won't have to tote his rifle anymore and he might be able to shoot it offhand. I'm ordering dies and bullets so my friend can put some loads together. I'll make a tool to measure the bullet depth for my reloader and at least take care of the o-ring on the forend and smooth up the trigger. After all that if it doesn't shoot at least 3" then it is hitting the road. I've got to pull up the threads for those loads unless someone wants to post them here. I have to have a 100 grain bullet.