Author Topic: 223 question (Read 3087 times)

Idaho Ron · « **on:** August 04, 2007, 07:10:13 AM »

Hi guys. I have a 110 tactical 223 that I just traded for. I shot some black hills ammo to do some scope sight in. I shot a couple of groups with some 55 gr hornady sp. Nothing great, I was kind of disappointed. I tried some 55 gr SPSX hornadys. These were loaded with 26 gr of H335. The bullets never hit the paper. Then I saw them, they were blowing up about 18 to 20 feet in front of the rifle. When I looked at the muzzle the bore was horribly copper fouled. Can you tell me what happened? Thanks

dw06 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2007, 11:34:32 AM »

I've shot a bunch of the 50gr sxsp out of 223s,and never had that happen.I would give it a good cleaning to get the fouling out,and try them again.If results are the same,you got a rough spot or rough overall bore tearing the jackets.If so I would either change bullets,or clean it again and then polish the bore with Flitz or some of the other metal polishes to smooth it up.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2007, 12:04:38 PM »

You may be cooking those sx bullets a tad hot. Do you know how fast you're driving them? What is the twist of your rifle?

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:00:44 AM »

Depending on the load manual you look it up in, your load of H335 is over the upper recommended load or at the top. Are you getting any pressure signs? The SX bullets are designed not to exceed 3500 fps. If you are pushing them at 3300 - 3400 fps and are running them through a fast twist barrel, they could be blowing up. Try a heavier jacketed bullet (55 - 60 grain V-Max for example) and see if that happens. I have had excellent results from my 223 with 50 grain V-maxes, but mine is a 1 -14" twist. You did not say if the barrel was copper fouled to start with or it was the result of firing the SX bullets. I am assuming it was caused by firing the SX bullets. I have a feeling it will copper foul real bad with any bullet. Mine did. I had to polish the heck out of it. I would shoot a few and clean it up real good then start running polishing compound through it. JB bore Bright, Flittz or any metal polishing compound. I would give it about 100- 150 strokes and do it all over again. Did this countless times. Eventually it came to be that it will not copper foul after 30 -40 shoots. It now shoots under .5 MOA with boring repeatability with a heavy charge of N133 and 50 grain V-Max bullets. Good luck to you.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:18:39 AM »

The barrel was clean when I started to shoot. The SX bullets showed no sign of pressure. I used a micrometer to measure the case head and everything was fine. The rate of twist on my rifle is 1-9. I am beginning to think that the "Grey mist" was from several reasons. I was told the gun was never shot when I got it. I cleaned it and made sure it was good to go.1- I think the bore is a bit rough, 2- I think that the rate of twist was too much for the SPSX, 3- speed was high for the rate of twist.
I am going to try some heavier bullets. Ron

beemanbeme · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:57:51 AM »

I think you found your answer. give it 500 strokes of JB paste and use heavier bullets.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2007, 04:55:19 PM »

I went to sportsmans warehouse and I could not find the JB. I might have to ask for help. I was running low on time. Ron

~Ace~ · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:05:43 PM »

I don't know it for a Fact... but it seems like the Jacket is thicker on the New SXSP VS the older SPSX with the same model #.. The older ones came apart Much easier than the newer ones. ~Ace~

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2007, 12:47:48 AM »

I am not sure about the jacket thickness, but the bullet shape is different. I had some old ones (bought in the 80's) then bough some new ones. There is a difference right where the bullet starts to taper down to the point. The new ones are definitely sharper while the older ones is more rounded right where they transition. I guess they wore out the dies for the older style and it was cheaper/easier to make the new dies to the sharper transition. I do not think they shoot as well as they did. I have compared the 45 Hornet (essentially a 45 grain SX) from old to new and do not see as much difference, they look the same to me.

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2007, 01:50:40 AM »

It sure sounds like the bullets are blowing apart, but they shouldn't be at that velocity. I've shot Hornady 50gr & 55gr SX bullets for years in all my varmint rifles. 55gr SX in my both my 22-250's , 50gr & 55gr SX in my 223, & 50gr SX in my 222's. I know they put a warning in these boxes about velocities over 3500 fps. And if it was going to be a problem it would have happened with my 22-250. I've always had very good accuracy in all these calibers with the SX bullets.
Good Luck & let us know how things work out.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2007, 07:03:18 AM »

Sorry, but I've found the box to mean exactly what it sez.
Try some of the smaller gun shops for the JB paste. You'll be glad you did.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2007, 04:22:16 PM »

The bullets that blew up were bought in 1984. Ron

~Ace~ · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2007, 04:26:20 PM »

Try the new ones and I Bet the prob goes away. ~Ace~

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2007, 06:17:36 PM »

This will sound crazy to most re loaders and i don't know why, it has never happened with anything else i have ever loaded. I have had 8-12 different 223s' thru the years and they all shot one load very very well. Kinda weird. 38.5 grns h380 with a 55 grn siarra game king Remington brass and cci primer.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2007, 02:55:55 PM »

You have a 1: 9 twist. If you think copper, do it, Sweets is a good product on the market. Try a aggresive ap, if it still shows green (we are using a nylon brush). Then put some Sweets down it and leave some time. I had a 243 that I did this with and left over night. That day the copper came out in strands, like wire.
So clean for copper every so often depending on accuracy. The gun is supposed to be out of the box accurate, some are some are not I spent 4 bills getting it trued.
Jim

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #15 on:** September 13, 2007, 03:04:45 PM »

I just got back from the range today, shooting my 10 tactical in 223. Gordy Gridders worked it over, and the first 3 shots were dead center, -1" group. I was using factory (white box win) 55 g fmj. This is the way they say it will shoot. Going out again with a ladder reload group to tune it in, or just use this factory load.
Jim

alsaqr · « **Reply #16 on:** September 13, 2007, 03:24:30 PM »

"38.5 grns h380 with a 55 grn siarra game king Remington brass and cci primer."

This is a typo, i presume.

DDelle338 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2007, 06:44:49 AM »

Quote from: alsaqr on September 13, 2007, 03:24:30 PM

"38.5 grns h380 with a 55 grn siarra game king Remington brass and cci primer."

This is a typo, i presume.

I was going to ask if maybe the typing finger stray'd a bit east of the #2 on the keypad.

Marc5000 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 19, 2007, 02:07:28 AM »

Quote from: Prebanpaul on August 23, 2007, 06:17:36 PM

38.5 grns h380 with a 55 grn siarra game king Remington brass and cci primer.

That sounds like a 22-250 load.

Tony Gable · « **Reply #19 on:** September 30, 2007, 05:45:38 PM »

Quote from: Idaho Ron on August 05, 2007, 05:18:39 AM

The barrel was clean when I started to shoot. The SX bullets showed no sign of pressure. I used a micrometer to measure the case head and everything was fine. The rate of twist on my rifle is 1-9. I am beginning to think that the "Grey mist" was from several reasons. I was told the gun was never shot when I got it. I cleaned it and made sure it was good to go.1- I think the bore is a bit rough, 2- I think that the rate of twist was too much for the SPSX, 3- speed was high for the rate of twist.
I am going to try some heavier bullets. Ron

Ron,

I just experienced the same thing in a Stevens 200 .223 with i 1 in 9 twist. I was shooting 55gr Sierra spitzer blits med vel bullets and they were coning apart in the 1 in 9 twist. Made a post on ACCURATE RELOADING . com. Come to find out that the SPSX bullets will come apart in the faster twist barrels when the velocity stars getting up there, according to the forum posts. This is what I found with the Sierras. I tried a 50gr Ballistic tip and a 63gr Sierra and both shot just fine. Check out this website and go to Stevens 200 1 in 9 twist in the small caliber section. May prove very interesting for you. Mou may not have to go to a heavier bullet. Just st away from those 2 particular one in the 1 in9 twist. Hopes this clears up a few questions for you.

Tony

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #20 on:** October 01, 2007, 03:16:57 PM »

Tony I left you a note over there. One other thing they didn't say over there was if your bore is rough it might cause some trouble. Get some JB bore paste ands polish it. I did mine and it is doing great. Ron

303Guy · « **Reply #21 on:** November 03, 2007, 09:58:38 AM »

Quote from: Idaho Ron on October 01, 2007, 03:16:57 PM

Tony I left you a note over there. One other thing they didn't say over there was if your bore is rough it might cause some trouble. Get some JB bore paste ands polish it. I did mine and it is doing great. Ron

Idaho Ron, I have a rusted bore which does not rub off any copper (or lead). In fact, I don't notice any copper fouling at all!!??

Would polishing it further be of any benefit? (The rifle does seem to shoot straight - it must have been a tack-driver when good.

saltydog · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:26:32 AM »

IMO your powder load load w/ H335 is to fast for the 223 REM. I recommend you go back and try H4895 Varget or BLC-2. The old SX's bullets were rated for slower velocities if I remember correctly in the 3100 fps and if you have a 1-9 twist bbl. it is faster than the 1:12 they were originally designed to be used in.