Will DEET spook deer & hogs?

[Haulbass]

Will the bug repellent DEET spook deer & hogs?  I got a bottle of the scent free stuff, but it still has a chemical smell to me. 

I'm interested if anyone has had successful hunts for pigs and deer while using deet. 

[R.W.Dale]

 The deer and hogs will never smell the stuff as long as you hunt into the wind. Now swatting skeeters on the other hand will spook game.

  Seriously though. It doesn't matter what high dollar magic scent blocking bug spray cologne or aftershave you wear the deer can ALWAYS smell you if the wind is in their direction. ALWAYS

[Land_Owner]

Krokus is correct - DEET smells and the deer can smell you when they are down wind (which they always are - somewhere). DEET will also mar plastic eye glass lenses, plastic watch faces, binocular eye cups, arrow nocks, and just about any petroleum based (plastic) product. DEET drives insects away but does not kill them. For true killing power try Permethrin.

Four (4) ounce Commercial spray cans (Permanone) contain 0.50% Permethrin and cost about $7.95 each.  Ortho "Basic Solutions" Lawn & Garden Insect Killer @ Home Depot costs $8.95 for 32 fluid ounces (1 quart). Its active ingredient is Permethrin...2.5%. So I cut it with water to make 0.50% solutions.

Mix one part 2.5% Permethrin (Ortho) to four parts water to make the final solution 0.50% Permethrin (white liquid). The whole 32 oz bottle of Ortho makes 2.5 gallons of "Bug Juice". Put the 0.50% solution in a $1.00 spritzer bottle and LIBERALLY coat your hunting clothing, face mask, gloves, socks, hat, shoes, etc. The initial faint petrochemical smell will quickly disappear as the liquid dries.

Permethrin has been extensively tested in agriculture. Its preeminent quality is it KILLS probing insects (DEET only drives them away). Let me say that again: Permethrin KILLS mosquitos, chiggers, no-see-ums, yellow flies, horse flies, ticks, gnats, wasps, house flies, and just about anything that bites, stings, probes, or tries to penetrate your protection.

Permethrin sends their nervous system into LSD-like hyperactivity and they literally burn out their nervous systems. Ants seen feasting on Permethrin killed mosquitos have died not long thereafter too.

Permethrin is effective after multiple washings of your treated clothing as written up in "Smithsonian" Magazine (circa 1997). In accordance with Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) see links below, Permethrin is not toxic to people, although the MSDS and manufacturer's recommendations indicate use on clothing only - NOT SKIN. Contact with skin swiftly breaks down the active ingredients and neutralizes the repellent.
http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/ento...in%20Spray.pdf

My personal experience is no-see-ums and mosquitos are especially difficult to sit still through when you are under their relentless attack. Ticks are no fun either when showering at home and finding them in the least appropriate places. Killing the insects that would ordinarily drive us out of the woods is a good thing. If you are going to use "insect repellent" anyway, why not kill the suckers at the same time.

I have used my dog to wear a Permethrin laced tee-shirt around the house when mosquitos get thicker over the rainy summer months. One evening outside with the dog is all it takes for about two week's peace - until the next batch hatches - in about two weeks.

Here is some "easy reading" Web research on Permethrin (there are over 500,000 others):

http://www.travmed.com/trip_prep/insect_permethrin.htm
by: Mark S. Fradin, M.D. is Adjucnt Clinical Associate Professor of Dermatology, University of North Carolina/Chapel Hill and the author of Mosquitoes and Mosquito Repellents: A Clinician's Guide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin Wikipedia defined Permethrin.

http://www.state.sd.us/doh/WESTNILE/permethrin.htmSouth Dakota Department of Health; Permethrin Fast Facts

Most links indicate Permethrin is quickly broken down into inert ingredients by contact with human skin; is quickly absorbed by soil constituents; is long lasting; is non-toxic to humans; does not smell; and kills insects by contact - but not necessarily instantly.

Others use Permethrin in higher concentrations too.  See QDMA.com General Discussion Forums [page 4 right now] under the post "Insect Repellent - Permethrin [Long but Info-packed]", which is essenitally this post with responses.

[BigBossMan]

I bought some stuff at a gun store in NC that changed my way of thinking.  It is called Whup-A-Bug.  It is all-natural and it is the best I have ever seen.  The guys at the store swear by it for hunting.  They told me that there is a slight lemon smell to it but they have used it for fox hunting, turkey and deer and because it is all natural, the odor does not spook any animal they have hunted and these guys are in the woods all the time.

I have not used it hunting but I can tell you that my kids and family love it and there are no chemicals.  I went to their website a minute ago and it looks like they are changing some stuff and the shopping cart is not active.  The link is this one. http://www.whupabug.com

[Haulbass]

Gentlemen, thanks for the info.  I got a bottle of it on clearance at W-Mart for ~$1 a few years back and forgot about it.  I was checking  my hunting gear getting ready for this fall and found it and tried it out in my back yard.  I think I'll just use it for work. 

I've got some permethrin but hadn't considered using it on my hunting clothes.  One of my kids brought head lice home from school once.  They kept coming back...  I got fed up and used it to nuke our vehicles, chairs and other areas, but not directly on my child. 

I'm concerned about deer ticks/Lime's disease, since it's a problem where I live and hunt.  I use a thermocel for skeeters.  It works and the last three deer I plugged didn't seem to mind it one bit.

[Wynn]

Guys, the Permethrin recipe that Land Owner gave you works. I started using it in the summer of 2006 when deer flies became unbearable at our camp. I now use it on the dogs bedding, as a fly spray on my cattle, I spray down the camp, patio, tree stands and blinds, hunting clothes and anything else where there may be spiders, fleas, ticks, chiggers, mosquitos, biting flies, etc. I even started using it at work in the hangars to kill the spiders. Spray down the old webs, waited a week and that was it. I re-treat anywhere from weekly to monthly depending on reinvestation. It is especially effective on clothing for the swarms of mosquitos here in Florida when you climb in to your treestand before first light. 

[Land_Owner]

Wynn,  You must be near me 'cause I have that swarm every morning and evening now too.  Thanks for checking out the product.  It works and works WELL.  Kill them all; don't just drive them away.

I have used Permethrin since 1997 when I read the "Smithsonian" article of two researchers at the 305 acre Camp O'lena State Park near High Springs, FL (Archer County).  I used to go there as a kid out of Jacksonville when jumping into the river from the hanging bridge was not prohibited (some unfortunate soul hit the rocks and broke their neck. Soon jumping was banned to all).  The Santa Fe River disappears into a huge sink hole about 750 yards from the Camp.  That is a cool place to visit if you have not been there.

[Savage .250]

  If you ever hunted in Hot,sticky bug infested Florida you`d care less. I`ve never had a problem and I "deet" up
   every time i`m in the woods or in my stand.
   Snakes, big spiders .....there a given but flying insects are a pain in the ...  So, I guess my answer is,no. IMO.
 

[Wynn]

Land Owner, I am west of you in Polk County. I read the "Smithsonian" article when I first started checking out Permethrin. I spent a lot of weekends canoeing, scuba diving and camping on the Suwanee, Santa Fe and Itchetucknee rivers when I was in my late teens and 20s. That was a long time ago. Beautifull area to spend time outdoors and much different from the swamps and flatlands around here.

I used DEET heavily for years and just tried to hunt downwind. I personally cannot stand the stuff, especially in the heat and humidity of bow season. Around here it was a matter of using it or not hunting. The Permethrin works very well and has virtually no scent once it is dry. It really makes those still mornings and evenings much more comfortable on a hunt and if you are comfortable, you will hunt better.

[rickyp]

Land_Owner, You sure you got the amount correct,

I have only been able to find .25 % and the stuff I put on my closed is .05%
 your listed 2.5 seams very high and I am unable to find it.

[Wynn]

1/2 % is the correct dilution. I just bought a bottle of 10% concentrate at ACE hardware. Should last a long time when diluted to .5%

[Land_Owner]

I have a 16 fluid ounce bottle from Ace hardware of a product called "Hi-Yield" 38-Plus, Turf, Termite, and Ornamental Insect Control that contains a whopping thirty-eight percent (38%) Permethrin.  One-quarter cup (2 oz.) makes a gallon of 0.60% solution.

[rickyp]

I am shopping in the wrong stores.

I use the straight .25% on my deer stand and ground blind as well as my boots.

I like to use it to keep spiders away nothing worse then getting in you stand before dawn climb up to 20 feet and find you have a big old spider in the sand with you

[Land_Owner]

rickyp...I am not as "familiar" with insecticides as I am with herbicides.  If there are any chemical "constants" between the two I surmise it would be that greater and lesser concentrations will work, but may act quicker or take longer respectively to produce the desired result.  On the QDMA web site, one individual indicated he used a concentration greater than 10% and watched the bugs die on his clothing.  I do not advocate that but it is one "data point" for example.

Another example is the herbicide Roundup and its clone Credit Extra.  Each contain 41% Glyphosate.  I don't want to and don't know enough to discuss molecular biology of plants vs. animals so a little empirical latitude is requested.  If I use the manufacturer's recommended herbicide concentration, I get a very good kill of the target weeds.  If I use a little more or a little less (like emptying the bottle and finding say 50% more or 50% less) the result is the same only quicker or slower respectively.

I "conclude" that insecticide concentrations are similar to herbicides with respect to target species.  Larger target species will require more of the concentration, small targets less.  The important issue is to kill the targets rather than drive them away.

We are having an impressive emergence of biting insects with this cycle of drought, monsoons, and drought conditions.  Some weeks I go to the same woods four days per week.  There are MORE biting insects each visit than the last.  Within hours of the presence of Permethrin laced clothing there are No More biting bugs.  When I return the next day the "hole" I created the day before has collapsed. 

How is this emergence sustained?  Why don't they die off from natural selection and starvation?  Why am I not making a greater Permethrin impact on the "local area" bugs?  Is my concentration too weak?  The worst of the worst, the No-See-Ums, are HISTORY.  They were really thick and really bad the first two weeks.  They are all GONE now.  Is that coincidence?  Can that be attributable solely to Permethrin?  Are their life cycles known?

[handi243]

Thermacell!

[Davemuzz]

Biting bugs will drive me crazy. I figure any deer will see me swating at 100 yards, but may not wind me until 30 yards.....and by then it may be too late for him. So, I spray my boots and pant cuffs and belt loop area, and jacket arms and collar and hat with Permethrin, AND I take a Thermacell with me. If it's a calm warm "buggy" day, whatever gets thru the Thermacell, dies.

Dave

[ronbow]

Jeezus Landowner you just saved me a ton of money. I swear by Permethrin - have used it on my clothes for years here in Northeast Fla. Now I'll make my own brew. I also have a recipe for scent killer if anybody is interested however I think scent killer is an oxy-moron.

[Land_Owner]

I would be interested in scent-killer.  PM me.

[ronbow]

Here it is if anyone else wants to try it.

09-12-2006  SCENT KILLER
-----------------------------------------------------
2 CUPS OF 3% HYDROGEN PEROXIDE
2 CUPS DISTILLED WATER
1/2 CUP BAKING SODA
1 OZ. UNSCENTED SHAMPOO
-----------------------------------------------------
MIX ALL TO DISSOLVE BAKING SODA.
POUR IN A CLEAN 1 GAL. EMPTY WATER JUG.
LET MIXTURE SIT FOR 3 DAYS WITH CAP LOOSE
FOR GAS TO ESCAPE.
POUR INTO A CLEAN TRIGGER SPRAYER AND USE.

The mixture will at first foam over a bit so place it where it wont drip on anything.

[emsemt911]

I wear some type of deet everytime I go in the woods in South Louisiana.  If you do not the bugs will carry you away.
I have hunted in all conditions.  I do not think that I have had one hog or deer run from my bug spray.  The catch:  I wear it all the time in the woods.  No matter when I go into the woods to work by my stands.  So the scent is always around.

[clodbuster]

Thermacell sounds great but never heard of it here in Iowa.  What is it and how do i use it?  Where can i get it?

[usmc2111]

ThermoCell is a great invention. A hand held contraption about the size of a big GPS. Place it on the bottom of your stand or hang it by you somehow. It burns a wafer that omits fumes that repel bugs and no see-ums. You can usually get it at WallyWorld for about 19-20 dollars.They can be refilled with wafers and the butane bottle. Search it on goggle, basspro, or cabelas also. Let me know if you can't get them and maybe I can help you out.

[Land_Owner]

$20.00 minimum to drive the bugs away (Thermocell) versus kill them for pennies on the dollar (permethrin).  That's the POWER of marketing.  Some like gadgets in the tree stand with them.  Technohunters.  Go figure.

[usmc2111]

No it is called ease of use. And don't have to worry about it getting on my children's skin. I have used permethrin on more than one occasion. But when you sweat it will get on your skin and burn you if it is to strong. And again this is just from my experiences. I have used the thermalcell in the swamps of Okefenokee in SE GA and NE FLA, and had great result. Also, I use it for different things besides hunting.

[Davemuzz]

I spray the permanton (sp) on the cuffs and wast of my hunting pants, the collar, cuffs, zipper and waist of my hunting jacket\coat, and my hunting hat and boot top and top of my socks. I find that I will pick up ticks when I am walking thru a field to get to my "spot". Actually, if I can get to where I want and avoid the field, I will do so. The permanton will kill any tick that I pick up on the way in, as my thermacell is not on at that time.

Once I get to my setup, and in fact get "steup" I turn on my "high tech toy" to keep away the bugs. I do this for the convience of the product. I don't smell like DEET and the darn thing WORKS. I like things that work.

If you are using permanton properly, you should be spraying it on your clothing well before you are going to use it. It should be allowed to dry on the clothing. Permanton should not be sprayed onto your skin as when it "mixes" with sweat, it will break down and no longer work.

Thermocell is not a gadget or a toy. No more than the climbing tree stand you may use to hunt with. Use it properly and you won't come home looking like a bug fest. More importantly, you may come back with that big rack because you wern't swatin or itchin.

MHO

Dave.

[usmc2111]

When I did use it, that is how I did but when I did sweat it would irritate my skin. This was the stuff given to us to use in Thailand. Maybe stronger than store bought. They also issued the cammies with it already treated and those also would irritate my skin. Maybe me? I agree with you Dave, I seem to see more deer now than I did using the spray or just maybe smarter on how I hunt now.

[Davemuzz]

Yeah, I'll bet the stuff you had would drop a tick at 200 yards! You may want to try the stuff made by Repel. I doubt if you would get the hee-bee, Jee-bee's

Dave

[mike65]

For the non-do-it-yourself-ers, there is any aerosol spray made by Repel called Permanone. It contains .5% Permethrin. I got a 6 oz. can for $6.00 at Dick's. It says it will give 2 full treatments for clothes, each good for 2 weeks.  A bit pricey, compared to brewing your own, but better than getting mauled by bugs.

[quickdtoo]

A better choice is the Sawyer's military version, good for 6 weeks and not expensive. They offer sprays also, but the soak is so much easier to use, you don't have to worry about breathing the overspray during application.

Tim

http://www.scoutgear.com/swsp652.html

[rickyp]

I find the spray much better, you spray out side and where a dust mask to filter any spray.

With the soaking type you have to worry about absorption, and then you have to dispose of the remaining product. The little gloves you get rip and leak