6.8 SPC reloading problem

[Cheesehead]

I have reloaded hundreds of rounds in 6.8 using Remington brass, Redding dies and 115 grain Remington fmj bullets. All rounds have been excellent in performance and durability. I recently tried to load 115 ultra corlokt bullets from Remington. I seat the bullet out as far as possible to allow feeding in the magazine for an AR-15. The problem is, when I push on the bullet of the loaded round it slides back in the case. I have to use some force to do this, but it does not seem right to me. I tried to do this with the 115 fmj and could not push them back. The bullets measure .277" and the expander measures .276". I would like to use the ultra corelokt bullets but am concerned by the lack of case neck tension. Any ideas???

Cheese

[stimpylu32]

2 things that i can think of to try are to make sure the expander is clean , no lube buildup on it and to use a bore brush in the inside of the case neck to remove any powder fouling that may be causing the expander to over size the neck .

.001 is not much of a diffrence so you may need a smaller expander ball to use the bullets , just ideas off the top of my head .

stimpy

[LaOtto222]

I would try a smaller expander ball like Stimpy suggested, but you could also use a crimp to stop it from moving. Crimp it even if there is no crimping groove, it may give you just enough force to hold it in place. Just be careful not to buckle the case. What you described is the perfection I look for in my reloads for rifles. Of course I shoot single shots and do not have to worry about recoil pulling the bullet. I want just enough force to hold it in place through normal handling. Of course I usually seat them out to touch the rifling which helps hold them back while the boiler heats up.

[Cheesehead]

Thanks for your input. I tried cleaning the expander with no improvement, I sized a new piece of brass with no expander at all, no improvement. I am full length sizing. I am considering new dies. I also brushed the inside of the case neck to remove lube.

[teddy12b]

Just curious but what kind of powder are you using?

[Cheesehead]

Teddy

I have been using h335 at the starting load recommendations with 115 fmj bullets with great success, until lately. Tell me about your reloading hardware for the 6.8.

Cheese

[LaOtto222]

New dies will not necessarily fix your "problem". I am really puzzled with the full length sized without and expander ball as being too big. I do not have a 6.8 but have loaded for a few other cartridges. I have never had a sizing die that did not squeeze the neck too far. Are you sure you have it adjusted properly? I am beginning to think you have under sized bullets. What is the diameter of a fully sized neck with out an expander ball? What is it with an expander ball run through it? Compare those two to one that has a bullet seated. There should be at a minimum of .001" difference in the neck diameter between the largest of the two first measurements and the seated bullet. You could glue the bullet in place

[billy_56081]

If Lee makes a factory crimp die for 6.8spc, your problem will be solved. Or set your dies to crimp them firmly.

[bja105]

How many times have you loaded this brass?  It sounds like the necks are work hardened.  Annealing may help.

[Cheesehead]

The brass is new. I bought two 1000 packs of brass, different lots, I will try the other lot and perhaps annealing if this does not work. I full length size the brass with the dies screwed all the way down.

Cheese

[mjbgalt]

my lee dies did that too...i could grab the bullets from the .243 die and twist them in the case. bought a new die, no more problem.

-Matt

[jhalcott]

 I don't know how much help this will be, BUT the expander on MY .270 dies(RCBS) is .275 ! If your is .276 that is only .001 squeeze on the bullet. Brass spring back may NOT be enough to hold the bullet firmly. You could try to polish the expander down .001 by spinning it in a drill against some FINE emery cloth. Or send it back to Lee. A call to them MIGHT get you a new expander for the postage. Doubtful ,but explain your problem and see what happens.

[LaOtto222]

cheesehead said that even with out the expander ball it was too loose. This means that there is not enough "squeeze" in the die. i just looked on a site that sells Redding dies. All of them are "S" type sizers. This means there are bushings to size the neck. If that is the case then you need to buy a smaller bushing for your die.

[teddy12b]

Cheesehead,
          I recently went from an RCBS Rock Chucker to a DIllon 550B.  I love my 550B by the way.  I'm using h322, rem brass, rem primers, and rem fmj from midway.  I keep a couple boxes of SSA tsx in case I get to hunt with it.  I use RCBS ful length resizing dies.  The batch that I made I must have goofed something up myself because because they get a little tight going in and I have to tap the forward assist to completely load the round.  I'm still getting used to the 550B but it's the way to go.

[LaOtto222]

Teddy12b - I think you are not sizing your cases enough or your bullets are seated too far out. Just a slight difference in case length or diameter will prevent the case from going all of the way into the chamber. It does not take much. The case needs to slip into the camber all of the way without any resistance for an auto loader. A bolt will help by camming the case into position. In general auto loaders need to be full length sized. If the bullet is too far out it will hang in the rifling and need to be pushed on it to engrave the bullet. Just two things to watch for.

[myronman3]

is it a different bullet than what you used before?  could be the bullets are of a different diameter....just a thought.   

[teddy12b]

LaOtto222,
       I think you're correct.  I must have messed up in the resizing stage of the reloading.  I will fire those off someday and reset the die so I don't have this problem anymore.  Just another rookie reloading mistake made after 5 years of reloading. 

[LaOtto222]

It is good idea to run one through your process and then try it in the chamber to make sure every thing is OK before you fire it up and produce hundreds wrong. I have sized a case then seated a bullet then chambered it to make sure every thing is good to go before I start (no primer or powder). I not only check if it chambers I can check bullet run out and if it is going to hang up in the action due to bullet seating depth. If I am I can make adjustments very easily at that point. I just use my bullet puller, resize that particular case and away we go with confidence. Reloading takes careful planning. Know what steps you are going to take before you start. I plan out the whole process ahead of time. I am thinking if I want to full length resize or just neck size for instance. Do I want to heat treat or not. Plan each step out before you start. Think about what you are doing as you do it so that you do not get a double powder charge or a case with no powder charge. To me reloading is very satisfying in it self, but I still map out what I want to do in the order I want to do it before I start. If I have to stop in the middle of the process I write a note telling myself exactly where I was and what I was doing when I left off. That way if I can not get back to it for several days or weeks later, I can take right off where I left off and go with confidence.

[Cheesehead]

i am convinced I have a faulty sizing die since ALL the ammo I have loaded lack the case neck tension to secure the bullets. I have tried 3 different bullets of various manufacture. I will send the die back to Redding since they have a life time guarantee. Unless somebody has a better idea.

Cheese

[stimpylu32]

Cheese

If its doing it on all the bullets give them a call first to see what they say but i'm guessing they will say send it back .

stimpy

[Cheesehead]

Thank you everybody for your input.

Cheese

[LaOtto222]

Do you have a "S" type sizing die? If you do then you need to purchase a smaller bushing for it. It is really hard to imagine that the die is over size. My experience with all manufactures are they are too small in diameter for my taste. Redding has a great reputation for quality. I guess any thing is possible though.

[Cheesehead]

The die set is called Series B. I am not sure what that means. I emailed Redding and explained everything. I will keep you folks posted as to their response.

Thanks

Cheese

[LaOtto222]

Please do keep us posted.

[Cheesehead]

I have been communicating with Redding and they told me the Remington brass was to thin and the problem is not with the sizing die. This was after I measured the outside diameter of the neck in a loaded round, I do not believe this and they were of no further assistance. So,, I bought a Lee crimp die and crimped some rounds, problem solved, no thanks to Redding. Anybody else using redding dies for 6.8 spc?

Cheese

[myronman3]

sounds like redding is never going to get any of my money.  i will also make it a point to let everyone i know who reloads that they blew you off.   companies like dillon,  rcbs, lyman, and yes, even lee stand behind their products.  for what redding charges,  one would think they would also.  evidently not. 

[Graybeard]

One thousandth of an inch 0.001" is not enough neck tension. Crimps are fine and for straight wall cases and lever guns pretty much required but the primary means of holding bullets in place has to be neck tension. You want an expander button to be at least 0.003" to 0.004" less than bullet diameter. While it's true that die makers can't control the wall thickness of cases if that's all they told you that's not very good customer service and I am surprised at them. Did you specifically as about getting a smaller diameter expander button and get turned down? Normally I'd have expected them to suggest one tho.

[Cheesehead]

GB, I understand what you are saying, but I tried to make dummy rounds using no expander ball at all, same results, the bullets pushed in with my fingers and a small amount of pressure. So it is not an expander problem. I have never had to use a crimp die in a bottle neck type cartridge before, and it really does not set well with me, but it secures the bullet. I am now some what concerned about pressure issues and if not that, accuracy concerns arising from the Lee crimp. I know other people that have used Lee crimp dies on, for example the 270 Winchester. But I never understood why they did it, but Lee makes crimp dies for the 270 Winchester. I have manually cycled the 6.8 rounds through my ar15 and they cycled fine. I have yet to fire these rounds and will try them soon since they are loaded at minimum starting charges. The 6.8spc is a new cartridge with a few quirks in my experience. Thanks everyone for your input.

Cheese

[Cheesehead]

Today I took my Bushmaster AR15 carbine, the Lee crimped 6.8 rounds and some targets to the range. I was concerned about the effects of the crimp, not any more. I shot ten rounds at 100 yards into a 2 inch group, good enough for me for now. This range time also gave me a chance to try my new C-Products ten round magazines, they performed flawlessly. My Bushmaster is topped with a Bushnell  one power Holosight. This combination worked well for me today, I am pleased.

Cheese

[R.W.Dale]

On a related note I may have found some of my issue with inconsistent velocities with 6.8. When loading some 90grn HP's I had a couple bullets fall inside the resized cases. it turns out that when I resized cases in my Lee FL die I was losing neck tension VS the new cases.

I only had just under .001 worth of neck tension on my full length sized cases, barely enough to hold onto a bullet. So I chucked my expander-decapper ASSY into a drill and turned it down some with a piece of emery cloth. I now have just under .002 thousands on my FL sized cases.

I didn't figure this out until I was done loading so I won't know if this helped yet