Author Topic: Walk the walk!!!  (Read 5728 times)

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Offline GGaskill

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Mallet's Mortars didn't have a bed.
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2007, 05:34:45 PM »
Mallet's Mortars didn't have a bed.

Here is Wikipedia's article about the Mallet mortar including a large picture.

Here is a link to pictures of both.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline lance

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2007, 05:39:35 PM »
whoa, thats going to take alot of leather ;D
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2007, 09:05:55 PM »
     Actually you both are correct.   There are two of these huge mortars represented on the internet, one, which George gave us a link to, definitely does have a bed described as two baulks of wood for a combined total of 27 degrees.  This is the one at Fort Nelson in Portsmouth, England.  The other, which comes up eventually in a longer search, looks basically the same size, but with notable construction differences such as no bed, a large iron ring around the lower section, instead of near the muzzle, to retain the six tube section clamps.  This one has a stout-looking, thick timber brace instead of a bed to keep the mortar at 45 degrees.  George's link shows the one we are building.  The bed will be painted white.

     Lance, you'll need at least two or three "beef critters" to get enough leather to cover a full-size, painted, Mallet's mortar bed!! :o

Regards,
Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2007, 11:54:32 PM »
Ah, Gentlemen, to quote the article:

http://www.palmerstonforts.org.uk/fortlog/mallet.htm
Mallet's Great Mortar

The Crimean War of 1854 called for a mortar that could be easily transported but was of sufficient size, and therefore calibre, to lob a heavy projectile over the walls of the fortress of Sebastopol. Robert Mallet, a civil engineer, proposed such a mortar, built up in sections so that each could be transported separately and the whole erected within a few hundred yards of the target. The mortar was to sit on a platform comprised of three layers of heavy baulks of timber, this resting on a sloping bank of earth at an angle of 45 degrees. This meant that no bed was needed. The relatively small distance to the target meant that a light charge and a small chamber would suffice. Mallet's mortars were soon to be recognised as unsurpassable pieces of ordnance in respect of the weight of metal they were intended to throw and when constructed one did actually throw a shell of 2,400 lbs a distance of 1½ miles. The heaviest shell fired weighed 2,986 lbs. Until this date mortars such as the long-range 13-inch ones employed by the French at the Siege of Calais in 1810, and the Liège 24-inch mortars of 7-tons used at the siege of the Antwerp Citadel in 1832 were the largest ordnance around. 

Empahsis added, no bed.  The photo's do not meet the historical description of how the mortar was deployed and only indicate how the mortar is currently displayed.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2007, 07:47:36 AM »
Dear Sirs,

     To eliminate any confusion as to which version we are building, which we possibly could have created, we are building the version on the ordinance test bed as displayed currently at Fort Nelson which is almost identical to the ordinance drawing which is on page 219, Fig. 116 of Ure's Dictionary of Arts, Manufactures and Mines  by Andrew Ure.  This great compendium's 6th edition was published in 1867 and is almost certainly the source material used by many model makers over the years interested in all things mechanical or ordinance related.  This book costs $800 to $1,995, so we do not own it, but instead use the online representations of it's pages, for our own private, non-commercial use, which depict Mallet's mortar on a spring or hydraulic, recoil-reducing, ordinance test bed.  We cannot find a drawing of the platform which was to be used in the field,  so we don't have a real good idea of exactly what it would have looked like.  Sorry, we do not know how to get a direct link to Google Books'  sampling of Ure's Dictionary;  maybe DD, Tim or George can help here?  This material is not only copyrighted, but copying is blocked as well.

Hope this info provides some clarification.

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #65 on: September 02, 2007, 10:13:33 AM »
With storm clouds looming, my match was shot this morning in the pecan orchard next to our house.

Here is the course:



First lesson, I should have put the pin out in the grass. If I had put it in the grass, I would have scored better. More on that later.

Here is the mortar, dirty after firing the match. The shooting platform is a piece of ½" plywood:




And here is the result, I put the pin in the clearing so I could get a good photo:




Not the pretty picture I had envisioned. The reason I said before that I should have shot into the grass is that the bare ground is very inconsistent, because of the rains the ground is very soft out in the middle and gets harder the closer to the tree you get.

Everything that fell way short stuck like glue, anything that fell closer rolled. Which made it frustratingly difficult to get anything close to the pin.

But once the pin was set and the match started no changes could be made. To reset the pin and start over would have been cheating.

Second lesson, my powder chamber is too large for shooting at this range. Ignition was inconsistent, enough so that you could hear the difference between some shots. I was shooting Fg in the hope that I could use more for the same range, but that proved not to be the case. I could tell no difference in the amount of powder required. And the Fg was, if anything, more inconsistent than the FFg used in practice (of which there was precious little).


And the final lesson is that it's very hard to aim a mortar! Aiming my cannon is a piece of cake, it's higher off the ground and has a nice long tube to sight down. I imagine that this piece would be much more consistent at a longer range, but aiming at, say, 100 yards would be even more difficult.


So here is my score, most humbly submitted:

I threw out  194" and 175"

The counted shots are 78", 83", 97" 152", and 159"

Total = 569"


I have walked the walk, even if I did stumble a little.

[Edited for math error.]

Offline lance

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2007, 10:52:37 AM »
Terry C, yes, sir, you have walked the walk!!!!......... that's a beautiful spot for shooting, sure would like a sack of those pecans.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline MikeR C

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #67 on: September 03, 2007, 07:28:18 AM »
TerryC.
I believe you have a 1" X 1.25" sub chamber, what size charge did you end up with for the match?
Good looking outfit!

Thank you,
MikeR C

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2007, 01:05:22 PM »
Not having an adjustable scale this small, I use my Lee Powder Dipper set for small charges. The dipper I used to shoot the match was 1.6cc.

According to the chart, this throws 22.3 grains of Fg, but I've found the chart does not jive with my electronic scale. The average weighed charge of GOEX Fg from the 1.6cc dipper is 24.2 grains.

This charge would usually fall short, but several of the balls rolled past the pin.

As I said before, ignition with this small charge was erratic. Interestingly, this charge is below what I estimated as the minimum (26 grains) in my construction thread.


Lance, it's a nice place to shoot, but if the range had been longer I would have had balls bouncing off the limbs overhead. Even at 30 yards, the GBs catch a lot of air!

I forgot to mention the smoke rings, I saw some really nice ones during the match. Practice rounds were shot behind the shop at work and there was a pretty stiff breeze, I didn't see any rings. The trees buffering the wind let the rings float up several feet before dissipating.

I'm not sure how well the trees are going to bear this year. It started out dangerously dry, then wicked hot, now it's raining everyday and the ground is saturated. A lot of the pecans are falling off green. We have 5 tress in the yard and I think that they're all but bare now. Hopefully there will be something left by harvest.

Offline Rickk

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2007, 03:54:08 PM »
Terry, try weighing 10 dippers full on your scale and see what happens. The bigger grains do not meter well in small dippers. You may find that some of your inconsistancy was due to charge variation. Weighing each charge will help a bit.

My 2.25 inch mortar lacks a sub-chamber at all, so I can relate to your issues with light charges igniting erratically. I use cannon grade in it, also in the hope that it will allow a bigger charge for 100 yard shooting. 100 yards is pretty much the minimum distance that I can shoot it at without having all sorts of ignition issues.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2007, 08:08:30 PM »
Why aren't you guys using FFFFg?  There is no chance of a pressure problem shooting golf balls.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline lance

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2007, 03:58:28 PM »
Why aren't you guys using FFFFg?  There is no chance of a pressure problem shooting golf balls.
i'd try some if i had some. have about 15 cans of FFFG Goex,10 cans of FFG goex, and a few cans of goex cannon. my Confederate mortar has a 5/8 dia. powder chamber. i used 13 grains of FFFG goex to shoot my 30yd round. the Dictator mortar has a 3/4 dia. powder chamber, and i ain't had time to figure out what it will take to shoot a golf ball 30yds. have another gb mortar with a 1.25" dia. powder chamber,haven't played with it either.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Dictator

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #72 on: September 07, 2007, 07:43:16 AM »
Why aren't you guys using FFFFg?  There is no chance of a pressure problem shooting golf balls.

George,
 That's exactly what I'm using. DD----since I finally got my mortar from Dom-----I'm in and will be shooting Saturday. I'll post results & pics later.

Offline lance

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #73 on: September 07, 2007, 04:11:34 PM »
TIM THE CAT, since you are my honorable guest, you may pick the field of fire and target area. we will measure it off when you come over. see ya saturday....................
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #74 on: September 07, 2007, 05:22:47 PM »
TIM THE CAT, since you are my honorable guest, you may pick the field of fire and target area. we will measure it off when you come over. see ya saturday....................

Stake and a firing point are all that's needed.  I'm brining several mortars, some identical, to test differences between types of powder and between mortars of different bore sizes.  Might as well do a little research.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Double D

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2007, 07:21:22 PM »
I see no reason that this has be restricted to Golf ball mortars.  Just to set a standard.  Anything 2 inches and under will work.  Just get out and shoot!!!!!!

Later we probably need to look at having a pop-can mortar shoot!

Offline Dictator

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2007, 01:55:33 PM »
Ok----here are my results from todays first outing w/ Dom's Dictator. What a blast.

Counted shot were 65", 73", 80", 183", 110" for a total of 511"
I threw out 330" & 296"

My load was 6.5grs FFFFg by volume with the barrel elevated to 60 degrees. 10 grs at 45 degrees resulted in about 100+ yrds. Below are a couple of pics. I need to load the videos later. The heavy flame was from 200 grs FFg and high elevation which resulted in a 10 second hang time. Dom, that powder chamber really give high efficiency.



Offline dominick

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2007, 03:52:16 PM »
Dictator,  Good shots and good info.  Thanks

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2007, 05:42:16 PM »
OK - Here are 6 pix of the setup that Lance & I fired this afternoon with golf-ball caliber mortars.

1. Brace of mortars.
2. What we encounter on the range - road apples on the firing line.
3. Two fine black mortars.
4. THE dictator
5. The Road Apple Load for the Dictator - wait till you see the impact!
6. The secret ingredient - 3Fg powder and the secret ingredient for consistant shots!

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline lance

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2007, 05:49:54 PM »
TIM, how many times do i have to tell you, they are HORSE APPLES and DONKEY DROPPINGS. easy to tell apart, the horse ones have to be rammed in, the donkey ones are smaller so they fit easier. glad you came over today, always fun!!! ;D ;D ;D
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2007, 06:01:17 PM »
1.  In the practice round before shooting for score it was evident that Lance could stack them in at 30 yards with that rock-solid dictator mortar! The group on the left around the target-post is Lance's, the group on the right is mine.

2. Even the road apple load shot to the same point of impact!

3. In reality (for-score shot) one had to be carefull!

4. And the closest shot of the day...

(AND you guys thought we couldn't shoot like crap!  This proves we can!)
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2007, 06:06:10 PM »
Lance -

I heard ya!  But to me they're ALL road apples regardless of the source or of the finer nuances of loading same.

What can I say, I'm a city kid.

It was a good time.  I'll post the aggrigate scores soon.  Have to clean up a brace of mortars!

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2007, 06:12:31 PM »
We did find that, as in past years, shooting at 30 yards is a challange because of great inconsistncies of igniton/burning rates (some due this time to extreme dampness).

I did most of my shooting at 75 degrees elevation and Lance at the standard 45.

Using FFFg pull-down recycled powder was a trick - a little seedy at best.

Time of flight was reasonably long when firing at 75 degrees elevation and about 10grains of FFFg seedy powder.  On the last pair of shots I ran out almost to the 30 yards where the golf balls were coming down in an effort to try to catch one.

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Offline Double D

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2007, 09:22:12 PM »
Tim,

You are a sick puppy!!!!  :) :)

Every one knows that equine droppings are not used for wads, the only correct material for wad is bovine dropping, male bovine droppings of course being the best!!!!

Now you guys are walking the walk!  Isn't this more fun than just blasting golf ballfs off in low earth orbit.  Get those mortars a shooting guys.

Cannons are next

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2007, 04:06:04 AM »
Hello form the British ordinance shop!

     Mike and I are really getting inspired by all those good looking mortars and wonderful pics.  We are about 80% finished with Mallet's Mortar Junior.  Love those field photos, Tim and Lance! The alternative ammo and powder is especially  interesting. The place where Mike and I will fire-for-effect on Monday, has all the cow chips you would ever need, for ANY purpose.  You could stay warm during a bitter cold winter in your little house on the prairie if you had a good pile of these dried chips.  And dry they are, after baking in that Colorado sun!
     If we were allowed to use prairie dog poo in the contest we could shoot a whole group with one shot! ;D ;D  Just a thought.  Anyway, we just wanted to say thank you for all those inspiring pics and to let you know how much we are looking forward to posting our results before midnight on Monday. 

Back to the bloody mill, Mike!!       Tracy!!  Tea-time is over, back to the lathe!!
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cannonball

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2007, 09:29:08 AM »
O.K... So you can walk the walk, just watch your step! ;D

Offline lance

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2007, 04:08:07 PM »
Tim,

You are a sick puppy!!!!  :) :)

Every one knows that equine droppings are not used for wads, the only correct material for wad is bovine dropping, male bovine droppings of course being the best!!
Double D, we wasn't using them for wads. we ran out of golf balls ;D ;D ;D
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Double D

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2007, 05:30:50 PM »
Tim,

You are a sick puppy!!!!  :) :)

Every one knows that equine droppings are not used for wads, the only correct material for wad is bovine dropping, male bovine droppings of course being the best!!
Double D, we wasn't using them for wads. we ran out of golf balls ;D ;D ;D

As I said...the only correct material is bovine dropping, male bovine droppings of course being the best!!


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2007, 12:17:12 AM »
....
As I said...the only correct material is bovine dropping, male bovine droppings of course being the best!!
....

OK, repeating it demands the comment:  We all know THAT's B.S.!   ;D

My apologies.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline EL Caz 66

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Re: Walk the walk!!!
« Reply #89 on: September 10, 2007, 02:14:12 AM »
Boy! talking about shooting the $#it ;D... Looks like you guys had a blast... What was the amount of Dong Wad used and is it legal and or sanction by this tournament governing body... :D