Author Topic: T/C HAWKEN/RENEGADE (Read 3359 times)

rex6666 · « **on:** August 07, 2007, 04:06:52 AM »

can you put a Hawken (15/16) barrel on a renegade stock if so do you need to bed the stock
or anything

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:15:58 AM »

The Renegade is a one inch barrel so for sure IF it fits it would require a lot of filler to make it a snug fit. Best to stick to the same size barrel the gun came with in my opinion.

rex6666 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:23:46 AM »

i was afraid someone would say that, and that is exactly what i thought, but i have by mistake
2 Hawken barrels. I like the Renegade butt plate better, it is a 54 cal. so i guess i will end up with a 50 Hawken w/2-50cal barrels and the renegade 54cal.
such is life, every time i think i don't have enough, i end up with more than i really need,
guess i can look at it like handis (never enough)

dumgunny · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:06:55 AM »

Hey Rex,
You might be able to find a .50 Renegade bbl, Or, order a barrel from green mountain that is 50 cal and 1" across the flats.

roundball · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2007, 01:24:43 PM »

In addition to the barrel bed being too large...the tang is also a 1" tang and the breech plug hook cutout would probably not provide correct hook up.
If the barrel was bedded the bedding would hold the smaller barrel up higher and the wedge pin tenon would probably be suspended out of alignment with the wedge pin escutcheons

sabotloader · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:57:40 AM »

rex6666

You can put a Hawken barrel (15/16") into a Renegade stock and it will work very well. I have done it several times. In fact right now I have 3 Hawking barrels in three different Renegade stocks. I really prefer the Renegade stock to the Hawkin stock. The only problem is the length of the under rib on a Hawkin barrel is longer than a Renegade, so you have two options... 1) Take the under rib off and cut it to length or notch the Renegade stock to accept the Hawkin underrib. That is the route I chose. The tang will fit into the tang just fine - you will have to check the algnment of the hammer onto the nipple but on my 3 it mated right up. The wedge holes are in the same spot so the wedge will fit right in. On one of the Renegades I did have to bend the under lug a bit to get a tighter fit, but all in all works great. The difference between 15/16 & 1 inch is 1/32 on each side of the barrel - no big deal.

Here are a couple of pics - hope they make it over... Also I have included a pic of the the barrels swapped from one stock to the other - both of these barrels are 15/16ths

rex6666 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:15:08 AM »

i have a hawkin 50cal GM barrel coming and a complete 54cal renegade will look at this when they get here.
have a 50cal hawkin w/GM barrel now. i think the renegade will be easier on the shoulder
because of the stock

roundball · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:41:46 AM »

Quote from: rex6666 on August 13, 2007, 08:15:08 AM

i have a hawkin 50cal GM barrel coming and a complete 54cal renegade will look at this when they get here.
have a 50cal hawkin w/GM barrel now. i think the renegade will be easier on the shoulder
because of the stock

Just as some general info, the shape of a crescent shaped butt plate should not cause any problems to the shoulder at all unless it's being mounted incorrectly.

They are not mounted flat against the chest wall like a shotgun...they are mounted out in the shoulder pocket with the 'toe' of the crescent down into the crease of the armpit.

Couldn't guess how many hundreds upon hundreds of thousands (millions?) of crescent shaped butt stocks that have been made & used over the centuries

sabotloader · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:38:18 AM »

rex6666

Quote

i have a hawkin 50cal GM barrel coming and a complete 54cal renegade will look at this when they get here.
have a 50cal hawkin w/GM barrel now. i think the renegade will be easier on the shoulder
because of the stock

I totally agree, I shot the Hawkin stocks for years, but I really like the Renegade stock - it is cleaner and much more simple in looks. I am not even sure that I have a fancy Hawkin stock left - think I have switched them all out.

In my Renegade with the GM SS-LRH barrel I am shooting 90 grains of T7-3f and a .503/460 grain Bull Shop... it is one accurate rifle.... I shoot clay pigeons @ 100 yards without even really being concerned.. it just flat out shoots...

cascadedad · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2007, 11:09:02 AM »

Drop in, SS long range barrels for a sidelock, making them shoot just like an inline...........just another way to cheat the system.

sabotloader · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2007, 11:31:29 AM »

Cdaddy

It is all in the appearance of the gun - my Renegade looks traditional and meets the requirements... besides - even if I went back to the 54 Renegade you saw how well it shoots... It is all in the appearance.... Under the older Idaho rules there really was no difference between a modern day sidehammer and what I will call an Idaho inline.

rex6666 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 15, 2007, 04:06:01 AM »

Well it is kinda like this, i don't care how many crescent shaped but plates were made,
they were designed when people were smaller, if i was about 100lbs lighter it would probably
fit me, as it is it does not fit as well as the shot gun type.
The only diff. in the barrels is the twist my GM is 1-28 the old barrel is 1-48, it is still a 100yd
rifle as far as i am concerned, does not change one thing, does not make it an in-line
oh and by the way i also use musket caps, guess that makes it some kind of hand cannon.

rex6666 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 15, 2007, 05:00:14 AM »

SABOTLOADER
i have some NO EXCUSES .503/460- 50cal and GOEX FFFG that i am going to try Sat.
with the 1-28 will try the 90gr. and see what happens.

sabotloader · « **Reply #13 on:** August 15, 2007, 05:10:17 AM »

rex6666

The No Excuses were the first 460's I shot - they shot well.... Since I am shooting T7-3f I do use a shot card under the bullet to keep from melting the bottom of the bullet - I also hope it helps reduces leading.....

Make sure you wipe any excess lube off the tip of the bullet (if there is any on the tip) - I found that it can effect accuracy

Wish i could squeeze some shooting in....

rex6666 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 15, 2007, 07:58:11 AM »

i never thought about melting the bottom of the bullet.
i shot some buffalo ballets 245gr w/80gr goex fffg and they shot well, but since i am trying to work up an elk load thought i would step up the bullet weight

sabotloader · « **Reply #15 on:** August 15, 2007, 09:21:07 AM »

rex6666

I do not shoot real BP so I am not if it gets as hot as T7 or not - but using 3f like I am I know it gets hot in a hurry so I am just rying to insulate the bottom a little bit + like I mentioned I really want nothing to do with lead fowling...

I plan shooting elk also and that is the reason I went to the 460 - I am not much of a lead shooter at all, but since Idaho changed the rules I needed to make the switch. Another reason I went to the 460 is because of my belief that lead tends to blow-up when it hits something hard -like bone. I would much rather shoot a 300 grain or even a 200 grain bullet, to get better ballistics, but I have read to many war stories about PowerBelts blowing and lighter lead bullets going to pieces... guess that's why the old timers say shoot a big bullet...

cascadedad · « **Reply #16 on:** August 15, 2007, 12:09:34 PM »

sabotloader, Redclub shot a bull elk at 70 yards last year in Colorado with his Ultra-mag. 460 Bullshop, wad card and I think 110 or 115 gr of 777. Can't remember the details, but I THINK the bullet was against the hide in the far side. It ran 50 or so yards and was dead. I think the bullet was pretty much intact with the wad card STILL STUCK TO THE BULLET.

rex6666 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2007, 04:06:21 AM »

i was shooting T7 was told it was more for in-lines or sabots, and that is why i went to goex
fffg, i understand i need to use less of it than the ffg, may try both sat.
that is why i went to the heavy bullets, to many good things said about,hunt with them.
i can punch paper with anything but want to cut my odds as best i can if i get a chance to eye ball a bull

rex6666 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2007, 04:10:02 AM »

i forgot to ask are the bull shop bullets hollow base or flat.
the no excuses are flat, i like the hollow base bullets, seems like they would expand
into the rifling better, (in my mind any way)

sabotloader · « **Reply #19 on:** August 16, 2007, 05:43:02 AM »

rex6666

They are also flat base, either one the No Excuse or the Bull Shop will obturate to your barrel.... remeber these conicals are sized to your bore... the hollow base conical is different in that probably just the top one or two rings are actually sized to your bore, so the expanding (obturating) base does help seal the pressure...

Most often people move to real BP in sidehammers and flinters because it is easier to ignite than T7, that is why i went to T7-3f and I use Dynamint Noble 1075+ caps to ignite it. I use to use 2f but in really really cold weather I could not get it started with regular caps or even musket caps. Switching from 2f to 3f (IN T7 ONLY) you will not find much of a pressure difference - you will find the 3f reaches peak pressure sooner than 2f. but I would still reduce 10% and work back to your regular load. I shoot 90 grains in the GM barrel and 80 grains in a real Renegade barrel...

rex6666 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2007, 08:20:21 AM »

well i tried the 15/16 barrel in the Renegade stock last nite fit right up pin went in
with little pressure (enough to keep it in) i thought man this is good, then i looked
at the hammer, didn't look just right, i had put musket nipple on, wasn't going down all the way. i snapped it 2-3 times and it goes down all the way now.
this GM barrel is diff. than the new one i bought from GM.
this barrel has a black matte type finish, steel sights, that i can see through.
i think this is an older barrel and some one has put the brass rod nipples on it, the sights
look like they came off of a Renegade.
the new barrel i ordered from GM has the fiber optic sights, don't think we are going to get
along.

sabotloader · « **Reply #21 on:** August 17, 2007, 09:04:10 AM »

rex6666

Do not give up yet there a coupe of solutions to the Hammer/nipple alignment that are very easy.... when you decide which barrel you want to use - i can walk you through a couple of thoughts that have worked for me...

mike

rex6666 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 20, 2007, 04:21:47 AM »

Sabotloader
went to the range sat. with the Hawkin and musket caps the hammer is off about
1/32 maybe a little more, enough that it is striking one side of cap, neck in hammer needs to be opened up very little. it snapped almost every cap the first time then then would ignite the second blow. taught me a lot about the cursed flinch.
i called T/C this am ask about heating and bending the hammer (ie opening the neck a
little) they said no heat (would make it brittle) they say use rubber hammer and you can bend it about 1/8"
i ran about 15 rounds through it at 50yds, and the last 4 were about 3-4 inch high anb about 3" group i believe it is a shooter, did not try the Renegade but i know it will need the same medicene
do you have a cure for this.

sabotloader · « **Reply #23 on:** August 20, 2007, 09:59:15 AM »

rex6666

Quote

went to the range sat. with the Hawkin and musket caps the hammer is off about
1/32 maybe a little more, enough that it is striking one side of cap, neck in hammer needs to be opened up very little.

Which SIDE of the cap is it hitting - barrel side or opposit side?

The EASY fix is to switch from musket caps to #11 caps.... If you can find some Dynamint Noble 1075+ caps they are hotter than a musket cap and will actually work very. (musket caps burn for a longer period if time but are not as hot a #11 mag or 1075+ caps)

In the Hawkin - was the previous barrel a 50 cal or a 54 cal

?.... I think there was a previous barrel. Another thing I have had to switch hammers - TC has two different hammers and one seems to be bent just a bit different than the other, also on the lock there is a piece metal left in place for a 15/16" barrel and removed for a 1 inch barrel - this might be causing part of the alignment problems.

Quote

i ran about 15 rounds through it at 50yds, and the last 4 were about 3-4 inch high anb about 3" group i believe it is a shooter

Sounds like it will be a shooter to me...

Quote

did not try the Renegade but i know it will need the same medicene

What barrel are you going to put into the Renegade?

rex6666 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 20, 2007, 11:50:31 AM »

the hawkin had a 50cal 1-48, now it has a 50cal 1-28 the hammer is striking the front(toward
the sights then i turn the cap and then it goes off on next strike
the renegade had a 54cal it now has a 50 on it i can tell that it is doing the same thing.
i don't mind the #11 caps, i was told the musket caps where hotter and cut out any delay.
if there is a #11 cap that will do that i have not problem.
where do i start looking, all i see here ( Ft. Worth) are just reg. #11

sabotloader · « **Reply #25 on:** August 20, 2007, 03:47:07 PM »

rex6666

Quote

where do i start looking, all i see here ( Ft. Worth) are just reg. #11

You DO NOT want regular #11's in that case the musket cap is hotter. You will need #11 Mags or those Dynamint Nobel 1075+'s that I suggested. I have also switched to T7-3f to make sure the powder get out under the nipple - 2f does not always make it out under the nipple.

They have got to be there someplace - some of the Wal-Marts will have CCI #11 Mags - Sportsman' Wharehouse - Bass Pro - Cabelas.... Of course if you do the mail order thing you will have to pay the Haz-mat fee...

OK - I have the problem as the hammer hits the front of the musket primer.... if that is the case - you will be able to get by it by using a short TC #11 nipple. If you look @ TC nipples you will see that they are shorter in height than the standard #11, That will allow the hammer to fall farther forward covering the nipple... The other fix is not as easy but can be done. Remove the tang from the stock (two screws then lift it out). Then put the barrel in and align it under the hammer where you want it. Measure the distance from the wood to the back of the breech plug - something around 1/2". Then measure the thickness of the tang from the front to the back where it contacts the stock... it should be somewhere near a 1/2" also. It sounds like you are less than a 16th of an inch off. The easiest fix is still to change the nipple.

If you are a bit mechanically inclined there is one more fix requiring a shaving a little wood off the stock piece... if you think you might be interested let me know and I will take some pictures of what i am suggesting and send them to you..

Hope some this helps....

mike

rex6666 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:27:47 AM »

i see what you are saying about shaving the stock, re-drill the tang screw holes this would
move the barrel back and that will work.
last nite i tried T/C HOT SHOT nipple, works perfect every time with reg #11 caps
talked to my gun smith this mourn. he is going to see if he can get #11mag. or the
noble 1075 but he said their would be about a twenty dollar HAZ-MAT shipping fee,
maybe i can get lucky and get them in with a reg. ammo shipment. i am thinking about
running a #60 drill bit through the nipple and open it up a little, not a lot, but some.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** August 21, 2007, 06:30:45 AM »

Since this has already gotten away from bbl's fitting , can anyone tell me where i can get a TC kit ?
I put a RENEGADE together 25 years ago , its help get deer and turkeys since ! would like to do another !
for the record , i shoot the Lee R.E.A.L. and 100 gr. fffg , cast mine out of new plumbing lead . never had a deer walk away ! so far all shots under 50 yds but one ! it was 75 or so ( 81 steps ) back before range finders or in lines !
thanks for any help !

sabotloader · « **Reply #28 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:32:26 PM »

rex6666

Quote

i see what you are saying about shaving the stock, re-drill the tang screw holes this would
move the barrel back and that will work.

Right on - just fill the existing tang holes with wood then slide the tang back a bit...

Quote

i am thinking about running a #60 drill bit through the nipple and open it up a little, not a lot, but some.

I would pass on that one - unless you absolutely have to drill it open - switching to T7-3f would solve some of the problems.

sabotloader · « **Reply #29 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:42:55 PM »

rex6666

There is a Cabelas in Ft. Worth - they will have the Mag Caps - CCI for sure - but maybe even the dynamit Nobels...