Author Topic: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style  (Read 5132 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« on: August 08, 2007, 09:20:48 AM »
I have been shooting cannons, but not very well for over 20 years, mostly not well.  When I got to South Africa, I hooked up with the South African Minature Cannon Club and learned how to realy shoot a cannon.

My first shoot had me shooting the late Mike Pilgram's Napolean.  Here's Mike aiming his gun in.



Take a close look.  Notice the muzzle flare.  It's the same diameter as the cascabel.   Those are your sight elements  The barrel is quite long-longer sight radius.

Mike is also shooting his gun off a platform .  Not only does it raise the gun more in line with your eye the platform also provides a solid base for the gun to shoot from.  Trust me when I say you need a solid base. The SAMCC guys learned a long time ago, that the platform is more accurate to fire from than the ground.

You've seen this picture before, it's me making my first run at the club.



Here is the target from my first shoot. This was shot from Mikes gun.  I now shoot the club gun and haven't even come close.



Here is the firing line



All guns are loaded on the line. Just like any muzzleloading game every body has their own technique.  Some use the club furnished wads and balls, others use patches and ball.



Once all guns are loaded the Range offcier moves down the line and fires the guns using a linstock.  No fuses.  The priming powder is a combination of fine grained fast burning smokeless rifle and pistol powders.  FFFFG would work, but in South Africa you don't get choice, you get black powder. Call the magazine and tell them you need a kilo of powder, then drive out to the magazine and they give you a kilo of what ever they have. No Choice.





There is one more trick. Here is the revision.

Placing your target. First you should have the barrel on your gun about level.  Place your gun on your shooting platform.  Then place your target so that it is in your line of sight while laying behind the gun. If you have to strain to look down the barrel you won't get a consistent sight picture.



Then of course sighting. We've covered this before, but I am going to do it again.

Pick a sighting point.  6 o'clock is a good place to start.

For elevation align the top of the cascabel with the muzzle ring at 6 o'clock on target. 



Next for windage note where and how far to the right of the vertical center line the 3 o'clock of the cascabel and muzzle ring align.



Fire and adjust.



To adjust for elevation move your point of aim from 6 o'clock  the distance the shot is above or below the desire point of impact.



Adjust for windage by moving the 3 o'clock position away from the first vertical reference point equidistance in the opposite direction the shot is right or left of the of the reference point.



Fire


Offline m223

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 201
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 09:56:20 AM »
D.D. Thanks for your tutorial, and pictures. I find target shooting to be a very relaxing and satisfying sport, and that looks like a great way to spend the afternoon. I believe I read in a previous post of yours that this is a 25 meter range. I have about that much room in the back yard, I have yet to try my little cannon out yet so I don't know how loud it is. It has been over 100 degrees F. with 50 percent humidity at work. Moving heavy machinery in the back of a semi with no air circulation seems to sap away any motivation for out doors activity after work. I do have a question for you though, In the smaller cannons like those you are using do you put your charge in aluminum foil or do you charge the powder loose?   Thanks Tracy

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2007, 05:38:06 PM »
Yes the range is 25 meters.

The club provides the powder.  The powder comes  in premeasured individual plastic vials and is poured loose down the bore.

These guns are all  less than 75 cal.  I believe right now thel argest being shot is 50 cal.  The basically are being shot as smooth bore muzzloading pistols.





Offline m223

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 201
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2007, 01:36:00 AM »
O.K. Thanks for the info, my metal carriage cannon is about .70 caliber. The barrel isn't as long as the ones you guys are using , but it will be fun to check accuracy nonetheless.  Tracy

Offline Smoke n oak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2007, 07:59:28 PM »
Sweet pics, Thanks. That looks so fun. I wish I had a club like that out hear!
Smoke n oak

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 08:19:53 AM »
Just to bring this topic back to the top for the new folks to see.

It might be interesting to visit the Seacaost Guys in Colorado and see how well I could shot their gun using this method.

Seacaost Guys in Colorado is that an oxymoron?

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 10:48:24 AM »
     Double D,    We've been called a lot of things in our time, but never one of those.   Anyway, on to more important things.  In honor of your visit someday, I found the Muzzle Adaptor Disk that was used to hold the Brooke Rifle muzzle in the steady rest for excess material cut-off and muzzle crowning.  When we go to the range we will slap this on and you can bring back fond S.A. memories as you sight over it and the first breech reinforce.  With this arrangement you will be unbeatable!!  Great thread, your photos are so clear that it's one of our favorites.


Just like a big muzzle swell, eh?




Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 11:57:20 AM »
....
Seacaost Guys in Colorado is that an oxymoron?

Perhaps just premature, considering global warming.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 02:52:17 PM »
You will have problems with the adapter disk as a sighting ring.  When you remove it there is to much chance that you bump the barrel as you slide it off the taper.  The SAMCC guys do use a muzzle disc for sitghting.   The disc is mounted on a spud that slides in the bore. Since the spud is parallel to and close to the bore diameter it slides out without disturbing the barrel.

Let me make something clear here.  I do not think this is the best way to aim cannons.  This is only a way to aim cannons if you do not have sights. .

I do think it would be fun to shoot the Seacoast Gun with precision sights and then see how close we can come using this sighting system

   

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 03:54:50 AM »
BTT as a refresher in anticipation of the shoot next month.

 

Offline BoomLover

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1152
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 07:10:27 PM »
Nice little cannons, Double D! I never saw a cannon with 11 spokes on the wheels before, and they had two of them in your pics! Interesting! BoomLover
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Cannon shooting, South African style
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 12:18:22 PM »
BTT

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 03:12:31 PM »


Using a spot to aim is not much different than the aiming off method.  First you have to sight the gun in and it starts just like the other method.

Print these instructions out and take them to the range with you.

Pick a sighting point.  6 o'clock is a good place to start.

For elevation align the top of the cascabel with the muzzle ring at 6 o'clock on target. 



For windage note where and how far to the right of the vertical center line on the target the



Fire



To determine the windage for your aiming spot measure the distance of the center of your shot group is to the right or left of the location you noted on the target where the 3 o'clock of the cascabel and muzzle ring aligned target.( Black Arrow)



Measure that distance right or left from your aim point  in the direction you want the group to move. (Red arrow) Make a vertical line at this point.



Next measure from the center of the shot group to determine the distance above or below the horizontal center line.



Measure that distance up or down at 6 o'clock on your aim point  in the direction you want the group to move. (Red arrow) Make a horizontal line at this point.



Where the horizontal and verical lines intersect is your new aim point. Place the 6 o'clock of your aiming dot at the intersection. Make note of it for future reference.  Each time you shoot place an aiming dot at this location



Now aim at the aim dot like you did at the Bullseye.  Align the Muzzle swell and cascabel at the top of the barrel at 6 o'clock on the aim dot.



Align muzzle swell and cascable  at 3 o'clock with the center line of the aim dot for windage..



Fire.  Your group will move to the center of the target.



Be aware that if you are shooting a gun with a small muzzle swell or no swell at all your first group will be substantially off center. (high and right) So use a large clean target board to sight in.  Accordingly your aim dot will be a similar distance away from center. (low and left.) Don't worry about it.  When sighting in concentrate on the 6 o'clock of the bullseye.  Once you have your aim dot location.  Concentrate on your aim dot,  not the bullseye or shot group.

Offline Cannoneer

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 06:54:31 AM »
DD,
Thanks for this last post about using an aiming spot; now I'm just waiting for the season to change so I can get to the range, and put some of these instructions to use. 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 08:40:50 AM »
Your welcome.

Hope they work for you!

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2010, 11:38:40 AM »
A shooting platform will help you shoot better. It gets the gun up off the ground onto a solid surface and more eye level when you are  laying on the ground.



The top is 24" x 18" and made out  3/4" plywood.  The top is a double layer of 3/4" plywood. The frame is 2 3/4" high.  The deck is covered with a heavy piece of dense indoor/outdoor carpet.  The back rail has a piece foam weather stripping as a bumper.

This platform has three adjustable height legs. Single leg in the rear, double in the front.



Here's the leg adjuster detail.  Threaded adjusters are about 1" in diameter and 6" inches long.  The adjuster feet are about 5 inches long and screw on the threaded adjuster legs.



To use.

Level the platform using one of those small bullseye levels



Adjust height so rear of gun is eye level. 

Check level and shoot!

This is one way to do it, not the only way.

Here's another, a stack of old phone books!!!


Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2011, 01:11:26 PM »
btt

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2011, 03:19:52 PM »
While working on my website I have been looking at the instructions for aiming...glaring error...partially fixed.  Later this winter I will fix the pictures, unless i fix them for the website first. 

Offline Cannon Cocker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 511
  • Gender: Male
Re: Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 05:42:24 PM »
Really great looking guns.  I want the naval gun in the last picture.  Great advice on shooting without sights.  I tried to get accuracy for years with a smooth bore and ball (unsuccessfully) and finally went to sights on a CW rifled gun instead.  Maybe I can bring it out again for another attempt.