caliber question

[Spencer]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about calibers.  I trap, and am trying to decide on the best trap-line caliber.  You would think the .22lr would be best, and it is for dispatching animals, but what if you jump a coyote or fox while trapping, it would be nice to have something to reach out and be able to have the knockdown power to take game from that standpoint.  So I think the .22wmr would be a good choice.  but In a handgun, I would never want to shoot it without ear protection.  Then there is the .32 H&R mag.  It would fit the bill real well, except now you are starting to look at pelt damage for dispatching animals, but would give enough knock down for the incidentals.

You may say this belongs in the trapping forum, but I am discussing handgun choices here so I have posted it in the handgun hunting section.

Any thoughts you may have on the matter are appreciated.

Spencer

[Catfish]

I think you have 2 totally different uses here. For dispatching animals in traps I always just hit them in the head, but if you were going to use a gun the .17 MK 11 would do less damage than any thing else. For fox or coyote I would want a center fire, and probably the best round for killing power and lack of fur damage would be the .17 Rem. or the new .17-221.

[Davemuzz]

Spencer,

You provide an interesting question here. I don't trap so I don't get that close to an animal. However, I do hunt fox in the wintertime and I hunt those critters with a 22 mag rifle. Now, what you have to keep in mind is that I'm usually shootin about 50 yards at 'em. My maximum shot is about 100 yards so the 22 magnum with a 40 grain hollow point bullet does a good job on the red fox without pelt damage.

Close up though, (and I'm talkin 15 feet or s0, maybe 25 feet) I would think the 22 mag would still be OK,...but you may get some pelt damage with the magnum. However, on fox at that range,(25 feet or less) the 22LR should have no problem on 'em. Now, on a Coyote, I know a 22 Mag would be no problem at close range. Head shot or lung. A 22LR at that range with a head shot or lung should still do you alright. Remember, your not going to be that far away.

I think I would be looking as something like the Smith & Wesson revolver 22LR that has the 10 round cylinder. At least, here in Pa, you can't use a semi-auto handgun for anything except target, so a revolver that holds 10 rounds would be my personal choice. You know, just in case you trap that big 45 lb alpha male coyote! Maybe 4 22LR will do it.....but I always like X-tra's just for security!!!!

I think if you get into the larger calibers, your going to be looking at too much pelt damage. Even if your just shootin lead bullets. Lead will just give you a big hole in and a big hole out....but you really don't want any holes in those pelts anyway.

MHO


Good luck and I hope you have a successful season!
Dave

[35Rem]

Why not a 32 mag with a speedloader of 32 longs (or shorts) for dispatching the catch. Keep it loaded with Mags, then when ready to "do the deed", just switch to the "shorts". When finished finishing, reload the mags and proceed as before.

A 38 special could probably serve the same role. dispatch with 38 S&W, carry +P's, could also have a speedloader with snakeshot in it.

[Kal52]

Just to really mix stuff up...
carry whatever handgun you want for a jumped fox/yote and carry a NAA lil mini .22  ( dont know how close you would want to be though, mine is not all that accurate) to dispatch the critter in the trap, or another really small pocket gun, or ruger bearcat.

I dont trap so Im just lobbing ideas out 

good luck

Dave

[Dusty Miller]

I don't know what part of the country you are in but if there is any posssibility you may have to deal with a wolverine you'd likely be a tad undergunned with any .22 caliber firearm unless you are an EXCELLENTshot. 

[poncaguy]

17 HMR, but in a Single Six, you need ear protection, in a rifle, you won't..................

[Jerry Lester]

Why not a 32 mag with a speedloader of 32 longs (or shorts) for dispatching the catch. Keep it loaded with Mags, then when ready to "do the deed", just switch to the "shorts". When finished finishing, reload the mags and proceed as before.

A 38 special could probably serve the same role. dispatch with 38 S&W, carry +P's, could also have a speedloader with snakeshot in it.

This would be my solution too. The .357" bullets might tend to leave a hole bigger than you'd want, but a .312" bullet, especially loaded in 32 longs would be ideal for the trap line. I used to trap a good bit, and this combination would be as close to perfect as I can think of.

[corbanzo]

You can get some pretty low power 38s for taking out the animals on the line, and then some good 357s for longer shots, even on something like a big wolverine.  If you are going low enough velocity on the 38s you wont do much damage at all.

[Spencer]

WOW!  there are some great ideas here, and I will address my thoughts of them here.  I am in upstate NY, so no wolverines.  Firearm of choice is a revolver, no question I am a little of a traditionalist.  I handload so I can work up some loads that are milder for myself, like a downloaded .32 mag for dispatching.  Yes you can just hit them over the head, and mostly I do with the smaller critters, Also sometimes you just can't get close enough where there is room to do such things.  but honestly, I do not like to get that close to live coyotes.  One of the reasons I do not like the .22 mag is the noise level.  I think the noise level is too much and would not have time to put ear protection on for the incidentals.  But I do like the idea of a Ruger single six convertible.  I could it loaded with the .22 mag, and carry the spare cylinder with .22lr for dispatching game.  I am now just wondering if the .32 or the .38/.357 would do too much damage to the pelt or not

Would a .22 mag in a 6" barrel have enough umph to take down a coyote at say 50 yards or less, one shot?  providing I do my part with shot placement? I believe the .32 would, but for dispatching, the size of the hole from the .32 might be too great.

Excellent thoughts everyone, I like the pocket gun idea too, you would only be shooting from a few feet away.

[Mikey]

Spencer:  For dispatching game caught in traps a pocket pistol in 22lr should suffice if it is accurate enough tho allow you the shot at the distances you prefer.  Another caliber to consider, once already mentioned is the 38/357 - a 38 wadcutter dispatches trapped game very well and one into the skull  does little pelt damage - the 357 can easily be used at 50 yds or better on running game.  The 32 mag is also a good choice, if you handload, as you can chamber 32 S&W Long and 32 S&W and those rounds are still used in target shooting, are low powered and can be loaded with a wadcutter slug (may still be available commercially) for caught game or loaded better for longer shots.

If you handload there are many options.  Since you live in upstate NY there are no restrictions on the use of a semi-auto or a revolver, so it is your choice. 

Since some of the fellas have spoken to the 32s I have to tellya that one of my favorite field pieces is my Tokarev in 7.62x25mm - great cartridge for smaller game and running shots because it is a fast moving load and the round can be loaded with some very low powered charges and heavy bullets if dispatching game without pelt damage is one intention.  Look at it this way - anything you can load and shoot through a 32 can be sized to load and shoot through a 7.62x25mm, including wadcutters and semi-wadcutter.  For that matter, the 30 Luger will suffice, so you have many options.............

Didn't mean to muddy the waters.  JMTCW.  Mikey. 

[Larry Gibson]

Spencer

I would go with the .32 H&R or the .357. I've a lot of experience with both. While WC/SWC or HPs may leave a bigger hole than you want a RN .32 S&WL or a RN .38 Special will leave a small hole not much larger than a .22LR. Th .32 H&R with HPs in magnum loads or the .357 with 125 HPs will readily dispatch the occasional larger critter you mention but make sure you use heart shots and be prepared to track a bit (coyote's are very tenacious). Carry the hand gun with the magnum loads and then simply slip a light RN load in to dispatch a trapped animal. After all it is trapped so you have time to load the lighter ammo. Also I appreciate your concern for your hearing but how many of these "other" critters do you run across? Hearing protection while practicing/zeroing is easy. The occasional field shot shouldn't then be a problem.

Larry Gibson

[35Rem]

Yep, Round nose for smaller hole, in and out. Also, easier to use a speed loader with the RN bullets...
Sounds like you are on the right track.
Just need some practice, now.

[Davemuzz]

Spencer,

I know I previously suggested that you may want to consider buying a Smith 10 round 22LR revolver (based upon my previous experience shooting fox with a 22 mag)....however, after reading all of the above post, the recommendations seem to be leaning to shooting 'em with a round nose bullet. So, I'm thinkin get an Encore with a 45-70 barrel. That way you can load some 405 cast bullets. Those will definitely dispatch your fox or coyote and you can file the end of 'em round so you won't have any big holes in the pelt to be concerned with.  What-do-ya-think...huh?

Dave

[Jerry Lester]

Would a .22 mag in a 6" barrel have enough umph to take down a coyote at say 50 yards or less, one shot?  providing I do my part with shot placement?

No, I definitely wouldn't suggest using a 22 magnum revolver for coyotes. I've killed quite a few "called in" foxes with a Single Six loaded with ammo ranging from plain old Winchester 40g HP's to the hyper velocity varieties. When loaded with CCI TNT HP's, CCI Maxi-Mag +V's, Federal 30g HP's, or Winchester Supreme 34g HP's, the little Single Six is actually fairly effective on red, and grey foxes up to around 35 yards, but even then, very carefull shot placement is a must, and it's not uncommon for them to run a pretty good ways before piling up.

I've tried the 22 magnum in a rifle on called in coyotes, and it will kill them, but anything less than an absolute "perfect" shot, and you've lost your coyote. The 22 magnum fired from a revolver, no matter how good some people might tell you it'd be, is gonna not only let you down, but likely make you sick when you finally get a decent shot, only to hear a yelp, and watch your coyote run off never to be found knowing fully well that you made at least a pretty good shot on him.

If you're "seriously" thinking you might try a shot on a coyote while your out there, then save yourself a lot of grief, and carry at least a good 32 magnum with full house loads. A 357 with mild to medium load would be even better.

[kennisondan]

I tend to think that two guns, each most perfect for your expected and intended uses would be the best choice. If you decide on one gun, the contenders tend to have a lot more 22mag power and perfect shot placement is easier. Some 22 mag loads are faster and more powerful than others by a large margin. If you lean to revolver, you wll likely only be replacing one chamber's worth for the dispatch round and still have the others for the targets of opportunity.
an extra mag is not necessary probably except to allow for a different cartridge. If snake shot would dispatch what you catch then kill, then that opens up a lot of options, and my first suggestion of a 22mag contender would stand. The wwbrand of solid round nose 22 mag is slower than cci maxi mags / or the varmint / highest velocity loadings; so if you can kill em with snake shot in the trap, great. same goes for 357, 38, and snake shot loads from either a contender or a more traditional weapon. To me though I love sixguns, the old contender single shot is fairly traditional and challenging as well .. not to mention long enough to wring a lot more performance from any cartridge you choose and quieter than a shorter barreled gun in some applications.
So .. make a choice or choices and give a report back ... the other guys gave you great feedback and insight, I just thought I would add to this interestting thread.
I would not hesitate to say almost anything discussed will work out, it depends on how you weight the differences and the actual instances you expect to want to do more with the gun... you did not mention you might see bigger targets that would skew the choices toward bigger bullets, etc.
In all I would not hesitate to choose the 357, 38, shot shell choice and since you handload, a round ball or two about 38 caliber ( common bucshot size) or 32 caliber of really soft lead would also round out the possibiliities for your choices of dispatch round. I really like that idea a lot. I think that either double or triple 0 buck is sized about right for 38 caliber and round ball in front of some minute amount of trailboss would be
safe and do the job without much penetration at all..
My opinion is worh every cent it costs and I will deny it to be mine if it is distastrous..
dk

[Spencer]

I have read lots of great comments and ideas here and appreciate them all.  I believe what I plan to do is the following.  I am going to choose my single six in .32 H&R Mag, and have it handloaded with a more potent round.  In my cartridge slide, I will have some downloaded rounds.  The more potent rounds will be used for any incidentals I come across/jump in my wanderings.  The downloads will be for a dispatch round.  The reason I chose this is because to date, I have not needed to use a firearm to dispatch an animal, they have always been in a position where I have been able to dispatch through other means, but this may not always be true.  But neither have I caught a coyote yet.  when I do, I am sure a firearm will be used.  Also, in a coyote size animal, the size of a .32 hole would be negilgible.  I chose a revolver because I am somewhat of a traditionalist and like revolvers for hunting, packing, hiking....  I realize the incidentals I come across need to be within 50 yards for any shot to be accurate and effective, but it is nice to be prepared by having something to use that is stronger than throwing a stick.  Also, the .32 mag should be enough to convince any feral dogs to find someone else to bother.

Thanks for all the help, I will try to post pics of the chosen rig soon.