Author Topic: .44 mag powder (Read 3889 times)

doulos · « **on:** August 10, 2007, 08:45:43 AM »

Im interested in seeing what people are using for .44 mag powders. Ive used 2400 for a long time and now Ive been experimenting with AA#9. The reason Ive used these so far and not H110 or 296 is because from my understanding these powders should never be loaded at less than 3% of maximum. I know they are the holy grail for full house loads but I seldom shoot full house loads anyway. Ive been shooting some AA#9 out of my G2 underneath a Sierra 210 jacketand getting some good groups at 100 meters and shooting at wood chucks, and trying to get used to the gun. It burns much cleaner than 2400. I was probably about 10-15 % below max loads. Next Im gonna try 240 xtp and also probably order some cast bullets. Since Im not going for max velocity especially with the cast would AA#9 be OK or should i try something like Blue Dot or even AA#7or #5?

Bitterroot Bob · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2007, 09:39:23 AM »

Howdy,
I think you've already found the best powders for your shooting. Personally, I like 2400 for my heavy cast bullet .44 Mag and .45 Colt loads. Unique is a good choice for midrange loads with cast or jacketed bullets, and can be more economical than the compressed loads using slower powders.
If you want to plink, Titegroup has proven popular with the Cowboy Action types. In the .44 Spl, I have witnessed a consistency of 8fps when using 231 powder.
I think you have things pretty well figured out.

Bitterroot

warrior1 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:12:27 AM »

for deer i use 24 grs. h110 winchester large pistol primer and R&P or starline brass andd a 240xtp in a ruger super redhawk,this good accurate load. you could cut that to 22 1/2 grs to start.very manageable in the ruger.
for cast try 15-16grs of blue dot and a 240 gr lswc. the aa#9 and 2400 are also good choices.
dan

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:29:58 AM »

I've used most all that are suitable at one time or another but my go to powders are the twins H110/W296 and 2400. There is really not much the others can do that one of these won't. I guess you could add Unique to the short list but really 2400 will do about the same it just takes a bit more weight wise to do it. I have little use for any other than these three and at least 99% of my loads will use one or the other. I pretty much long ago gave up experimenting with powders in the .44 magnum and settled down with what worked.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:48:40 PM »

I use about all of them but mostly aa9/wc820 anymore because i can get it cheap. Its a good ppwder and has proven just as accurate if not more then the others. Keep in mind though that it isnt the easiest to light and needs mag primers to burn right and doesnt do extreamly well be down loaded to extreams. It may be able to be downloaded a bit more then 110 but not as well as 2400. If you drop a 250 grain bullet much below 1100 fps out of a handgun you will start getting real wide extreams spreads over your chrono. Expecially if you download it much with standard primers. It burns best with mag primers with enough powder in the case to produce decent pressures. Used within its optimal ranges it is probably the best mag handgun powder out there.

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2007, 01:29:47 AM »

I'm going with Graybeard on this one (actually, most all of them - lololol). My preference is for H110/WW296 with the heavier slugs and if I decide to shoot something lighter in weight I will probably use either 2400 or Unique. Mikey.

Lone Star · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2007, 08:07:19 AM »

One of the enjoyable parts of handloading is the ability to do something different. While I can understand the thoughts of some of the more conservative here that 'if it works don't fix it' - the reality is that there are more than three or four powders suitable for the .44 Mag at less than full-power levels. The OP has discovered one of those. We found AA9 to be very accurate in silhouette loads 100-150 fps or so below max H110 levels. It burned cleaner than H110 or 2400 at those levels, and the reduced fouling buildup during an 80-round match mattered.

While BlueDot is one of my favorite just-below-max powders in a number of cases, AA7 works about as well and meters better. A lot will depend on the hardness of the cast bullets you use. If they are too hard then you might see less leading with the faster powders as they will upset the bullets better than the slower propellants do at the same velocities. But AA9 has shown good results with some cast bullets and if you have good results with AA9 then keep using it.

.

Racer X · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2007, 01:24:48 PM »

I have not tried it yet but intend to get some IMR 4227 for top end 45 Colt loads. I understand you can wring a little more velocity out of H110/W296 but 4227 is easier on the gun.

swampthing · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2007, 01:44:26 PM »

Any of the powders you list should fair well, in the G2's closed breach you get a good 100-200 fps over a "revolver" anyway, so why try to hot rod it any more? I like AA#5 believe it or not, with 280g hardcasts I'm getting 1250fps or so, consistently, with #9, if I remember right, I was anywhere from 1300-1500 depending on the charge! and man was it accurate.
If you don't mind a little more ooomph, {technical terminology}, stay with the #9, if you want to throttle it back more then a 100 or so fps from your "optimum" 240g xtp load, then, try some of the faster powders.

Lone Star · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2007, 03:05:29 PM »

Quote

I have not tried it yet but intend to get some IMR 4227 for top end 45 Colt loads. I understand you can wring a little more velocity out of H110/W296 but 4227 is easier on the gun.

IMR4227 is easier on the gun only if you load it to lower pressures. It, H4227 and the H110W296 twins can be loaded to higher pressures than are safe in the .44 Magnum. For equal velocities, H110/W296 will almost always give lower pressures than the two 4227s, thus less stress on the gun. I had better accuracy results from IMR4227 than with H4227, but eschew both now for 'faster' powders. BlueDot for example gives equal velocities and pressures to IMR4227 (Hornady data) with less recoil.

.

Racer X · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2007, 01:29:22 PM »

Quote from: Lone Star on August 17, 2007, 03:05:29 PM

Quote
I have not tried it yet but intend to get some IMR 4227 for top end 45 Colt loads. I understand you can wring a little more velocity out of H110/W296 but 4227 is easier on the gun.

IMR4227 is easier on the gun only if you load it to lower pressures. It, H4227 and the H110W296 twins can be loaded to higher pressures than are safe in the .44 Magnum. For equal velocities, H110/W296 will almost always give lower pressures than the two 4227s, thus less stress on the gun. I had better accuracy results from IMR4227 than with H4227, but eschew both now for 'faster' powders. BlueDot for example gives equal velocities and pressures to IMR4227 (Hornady data) with less recoil.

Lone Star - When I said easier on the gun, I meant 4227s do not erode the forcing cone as bad as H110 & 296. I did learn something interesting from the Hodgdon guy the other day. Since they discontinued H4227, the new IMR4227 (in the plastic cans, not the old metal IMR cans) is identical to the former H4227. He said if I have H4227 data, I can use it with the new IMR4227. H4227 was one of their extreme powders, and the newer IMR4227 is also (the Australian IMR4227 is Extreme, but not the Canadian-made IMR4227). However, either powder can be used with H4227 data.

Lately, I have been using HS-6 and am getting decent results.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2007, 02:40:40 PM »

try hi-skor 800x if you want some good accuracy with a little less powder and a little less velocity. ed matunas and others have found it to produce Very Good accuracy, actually.

good luck,

ss'

Davemuzz · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2007, 03:12:23 PM »

My favorite load for my Smith 629 6.5" barrel is Vihtavouri N-110 under the Hornady 200 grain XTP. The low powder amount is 24.4 grains and the high is 26.3. The powder is very good to meter. I get excellent accuracy from this powder and it is a very clean burning powder.

Dave

Lone Star · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2007, 04:48:20 AM »

Quote

Lone Star - When I said easier on the gun, I meant 4227s do not erode the forcing cone as bad as H110 & 296. I did learn something interesting from the Hodgdon guy the other day. Since they discontinued H4227, the new IMR4227 (in the plastic cans, not the old metal IMR cans) is identical to the former H4227....Lately, I have been using HS-6 and am getting decent results.

The long on-going "ball powders are harder on forcing cones" debate is mostly theory and smoke with very little light. All I can say is that when the local IHMSA club members got together to look into this in the 1980s, shooters firing many thousands of rounds a year of high-end H110 and AA9 loads in their revolvers never noticed any more erosion than those shooters using 42227, 2400 or Unique. Not scientific by any means - but much better than a couple of casual shooters' opinions.

Interesting news on the 4227 powders. Clearly in the past the two were different powders, but it makes sense that more recently they would be the same - if by "same" we understand that there are lot-to-lot variations, just like there are with the H110/W296 twins. However, even Hodgdon's own 2007 manual shows 11% different data for the two powders in the same cartridge with the same weight bullets.

.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2007, 05:35:46 AM »

I have used 2400 almost exclusively for years. I have used 296 and h110 also. Have recently bought another 8 pound jug of 2400 since I am so familiar with it and have had great results. i have some red dot I do not know what to do with so I am going to try that. The Alliant catalog lists a number of red dot loads, time to experiment. Red dot is very available in 8 pound jugs and cheap 108 bucks per jug.

Cheese

Davemuzz · « **Reply #15 on:** August 19, 2007, 01:51:40 PM »

Not scientific by any means - but much better than a couple of casual shooters' opinions.

Yeah, like a bunch of guys at the local gun club are not "casual shooters". Tell me, were these results documented, reviewed by "known" experts in the field, and published by any respectable gun publication?

I was just wondering if the thousands of rounds that I shot using Vihtavouri thru my 629 makes me a "casual shooter", or a "regular shooter" or a "_____________ (fill in the blank) shooter"?

Dave

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** August 19, 2007, 06:06:05 PM »

Let it go Dave. Being a writer in a magazine does NOT make someone an expert and we have folks on here that do and have shot more than many of the writers and based on what I see written by them actually know a hell of a lot more than some writers.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE AGAIN>

Davemuzz · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2007, 02:38:56 AM »

10-4

358jdj · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2007, 04:03:32 AM »

I like IMR4227 for my just less than maximum loads in my 44 super balckhawk, 4 5/8 inch barrel. For me, IMR4227 is a little less violent in the noise department. More of a push than a ear rattling crack I get with 2400 or 110/296. Even shooting with muffs, the difference is important to me. Guess I am more noise sensitive than recoil sensitive. Just another point of view. Your mileage may vary.

High Brass · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2007, 08:41:28 AM »

I use 23gr of W296 and 240gr Hornady XTPs for 1381fps for hunting and 6.6gr of Titegroup and 240gr SWC for 1050fps for practice/plinking out of my 7.5" Ruger SRH.

S.B. · « **Reply #20 on:** August 23, 2007, 04:09:46 PM »

Is H110 cleaner burning than 2400?

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #21 on:** August 23, 2007, 10:28:09 PM »

I dont worry about a powder being clean. If it puts tiny holes in the target i dont mind hosing off a gun. 4227 is a good example. It leaves behind a residue of unburned filler but allways seems to be one of the top accurarcy powders in the big bores. If it matters to you 110 will burn clean but it needs mag primers and some decent pressures to do so. Cheesehead if you like redot check out alliants promo. Its nothing but an overrun batch of redot and cost about 20 bucks less a keg.

Quote from: S.B. on August 23, 2007, 04:09:46 PM

Is H110 cleaner burning than 2400?

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2007, 02:30:46 AM »

I'm with you Lloyd. As long as it makes tight groups, WHO CARES how dirty the gun gets. I use 2400 alot. Yes it's dirty, but boy does it shoot good in most magnums revolvers. It shoots the tightest groups most of the time. H-110 is also an excellent powder. Used up many cases of this years ago for my magnum revolvers.The only complaint I've ever had with H-110 is that it binds up the old powder measure when loading alot of shells. Unique, 2400 & IMR 4227 meters very nice. Use the IMR 4227 in the 44 Mag Contender's & rifles.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2007, 03:29:24 AM »

Quote from: S.B. on August 23, 2007, 04:09:46 PM

Is H110 cleaner burning than 2400?

Yes, H-110 is cleaner burning than 2400. But then...black powder is almost cleaner burning than 2400!

Dave

Graybeard · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2007, 04:07:32 AM »

For all you guys so worried about getting your guns dirty there is a cheap and simple solution. Just don't shoot the damn things.

I fail to understand the comment about H110 locking up the powder measure. Ball powders are the smoothest and easiest to run thru my measures what the heck you using that it locks up?

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:25:13 PM »

Bill aa9 will sometimes lock up the dillon if i use the small charge bar and am doing 32s. A kernal of the powder will work its way into the slide. For some reason it never happens with a large charge bar. 110 is very simular looking and im sure would do the same to some measures that have slides. I have to agree with you. I get a real chuckle out of guys that are afraid to get there guns dirty. To me its about like buying a new truck and not taking it on a dirt road because it will get dirty. My 2000 dollar sixguns are treated just like my 400 dollar ones. There road hard and put away wet!!! To me a sixgun is a tool like a hammer. Why buy a good one if you dont plan on hitting nails!!! Guys waste way to much shooting time cleaning guns. I clean mine when they get so fillthy that they start running rough. I dont think ive cleaned a sixgun barrel in 5 years. For the most part show me a perfectly clean shinny gun and ill show you a guy cant shoot. Look for a powder that shoots the best in your gun and if the crud really bothers you buy a can of brake cleaner and hose it off once in a while.

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2007, 03:02:41 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on August 24, 2007, 04:07:32 AM

I fail to understand the comment about H110 locking up the powder measure. Ball powders are the smoothest and easiest to run thru my measures what the heck you using that it locks up?

Graybeard, I didn't say lock-up I said would bind. After several pounds of H-110 powder going through my 40+ yr old Lyman #55 powder measure, the handle would start working hard ( bind ). So I would have to take the powder measure apart and clean out the fine dust or pieces of H-110 that had worked under the brass adjuster slide. Now that I have been using a Dillon for the past 20+ years for my pistol loading this has not been a problem.
I'm with Lloyd again on cleaning your guns. Only when absolutely necessary. You can do more harm to your guns by cleaning them too much. You can put more wear on your barrel with a cleaning rod & brush than you can with hundreds of rounds of ammo. And as for tearing your gun apart everytime you get done shooting. WHY? Thats how the screws get all burred up. Mine only get taken apart when I'm doing an action job or when it don't work.
So spend more time shooting and less time cleaning. You may become a better handgunner.

Lone Star · « **Reply #27 on:** August 26, 2007, 04:45:09 AM »

Quote

I dont think ive cleaned a sixgun barrel in 5 years. For the most part show me a perfectly clean shinny gun and ill show you a guy cant shoot.

This smacks of second-rate gunwriter drivel to me. Done properly, cleaning does not put more wear on your bore and can usually provide better accuracy and reliability - competition shooters of all disciplines know this to be fact. I can show you hundreds of top-quality shooters who shoot 'clean' guns and win in competition - not at the local icehouse rehashing something they did back in 1982. Sure, some folks can screw up an anvil with a rubber mallet, but I am not one of those - are you?

Quote

Guys waste way to much shooting time cleaning guns.

I clean my guns in the evening after dark - this doesn't cut into my shooting time. When do you shoot?

.

S.B. · « **Reply #28 on:** August 26, 2007, 07:13:43 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on August 24, 2007, 04:07:32 AM

For all you guys so worried about getting your guns dirty there is a cheap and simple solution. Just don't shoot the damn things.

I fail to understand the comment about H110 locking up the powder measure. Ball powders are the smoothest and easiest to run thru my measures what the heck you using that it locks up?

My concern wasn't a dirty gun (as you took it) but, ash particles under the ejector star or on the back of the barrel at the forcing cone?
By the way, the last time a thread was started on this forum about 2400 it was stated that 2400 leaves unburnt grains in the barrel and cylinder. I called Alliant and was told that this is ash residue, not unburnt powder?
Sorry. Sometimes I just don't make my thoughts as clear as I should.

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** August 26, 2007, 07:45:35 AM »

Yup 2400 is and always has been notorious for that ash residue which many mistake as unburned grains of powder. If you will turn the butt of gun down and barrel up when ejecting cases it will minimize the situation of it getting under the star. It won't stop it but will greatly reduce it. Just check it periodically and remove if needed. But 2400 is too good a magnum powder to dismiss for that reason. I do generally prefer H110/W296 when looking for full magnum level performance but 2400 is a super powder and I use a lot of it.

One of my MEC shotshell loades is prone to the binding you mention with some powders. None of my other four are however and it seems unique to that loader. Using the littlel brass shim MEC supplies minimizes the effect with it. But honestly none of my three powder measures I use for loading centerfire have such problems. In fact ball powder is the slickest and smoothest to use in all of them and thus is used by me a lot.