Which .17 should I Build?

[RangerRiz]

I am considering building a small single shot rifle and want to build it in a small .17 cal centerfire. I have been considering .17 ack. hornet, .17 ack. Bee, or a.17 wildcat based on the 5.7x28. I am well aware of all the difficulties associated with .17 centerfires and creating your own wildcat. I however; would like any information from anyone who has shot the first two mentioned cartrages. I am considering the bee over the hornet because i have read in the past that hornet brass is thin and prone to splitting. Any how i would just like a fiew opinions from some one who has used either of these cartrages.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Ranger

[poncaguy]

Why not just go with  the new Rem 17 ? Uses a 221 Fireball case I believe..........

[trotterlg]

Easiest way to go would be the 17 Remington fireball, it is a factory round (new) and has a little more zip than the hornet or bee, but less than the 17 Remington.  I have shot a 17 Hornet and have a 17 Remington (Savage model 10).  Guess it would depend on whether you want a wildcat or not, the smaller 17's are fun, and I would say the 17 Remington may have a little more case capacity than really needed.  I think the Hornet and Bee may have a little less than you would like, but then I don't know what you want to shoot with it.  I use the 17 Remington for Coyotes, 30gr Bergers will shoot 10 into under an inch from a cold first shot to number 10.  I think anything you choose will be fun for you.  Don't be scared of the hornet brass, if it splits the neck just throw it out, that brass will be the cheapest part of the whole adventure.  Larry

[LaOtto222]

I agree with the others. The 17 Mach IV has been around for a long time (60's) as a wild cat. Remington has just recently made it a factory loading and renamed it the 17 Fire Ball. It is capable of 4000 fps with 20 grain bullets and 3700 fps with 25 grain bullets. Remington has done this with other cartridges including the 17 Remington and 22-250. It is much more efficient than a 17 Remington as far as powder goes. As with any small capacity case you must increase powder charges in small steps to prevent an over pressure situation. BTW the case length is 1.400 inches, the same as a Hornet, it is bigger around and a stronger case. Good luck to your project.

[RangerRiz]

I agree that the .17 fireball would be easier, but that is not what i want. I want the relatively small sized case. I want to have a case that is capable of a noticeable power difference over the .17 hmr but still capable of loading down to that level.  I am going to build a custom rifle for it eventual and it will be used to shoot groundhogs 200 yards and in. I want to be able to load it down because alot of the shooting i will be doing will be in urban areas. I also want the experience of working with a wildcat. I will probibly own a .17 fireball, but i can just get a factory rifle in it. For now though i do not need that power level. I basicly was looking to findout if i should use the hornet or the bee and if there is the same problems associated with both of them i would consider giong the full wildcat route and have a reamer made and full set of custom dies for the FN 5.7 case. Thanks for the input.

                                                                                                                                                                                   Ranger

[IOWA DON]

I have two .17 Hornets barrels for the Thompson Center TCR's (the discontinued hammerless break-over rifles). The light barrel shoots about 3/4 MOA and the heavy barrel shoots better than 5/8 MOA. I have two loads, the 20-gr Hornaday at 3,650 fps and the 15-gr Berger HP at 3,950 fps. The 20-gr Hornadays are within one inch of the crosshairs to 200 yards and the 15-gr Bergers are within a half inch of the crosshairs to 150 yards with the same sight settings. With the 20-gr Hornadays I've killed two short range coyotes and several fox, one at 220 yards. All died very quickly. The 15-gr Bergers are relatively safe for aerial targets as they don't weigh much and have the ballistic coeficient of a ping pong ball. They work well on crows, and on squirrels with head shots. With the 20-gr Hornadays it is much better in the wind than my .17 HMR and has a lot more thump. The .17 Hornets do not seem to copper foul barrels at all and I have read that barrel life should be over 10,000 rounds. My .17 Remington burned out two barrels, both in less than 1,000 rounds. I have had some necks split on my first .22 Hornet cases made into .17 Hornets, but I did not anneal the necks after necking them down. That may have helped as going fron .22 to .17 is a big jump. Some cases have now been used for six or so loads and are still OK. The .17 Hornets don't have the range of my .220 Rocket or my 6mm-06, but if I were limited to one pure varmint rifle it would be a .17 Hornet.

[John020769]

17 hornet is what I want because I want a reloadable small game rifle for edable game down load to 17HMR or to 17M2 then if I want to varment hunt I also ready I have the 22 hornet and now it is very good for what I want just want to be different later.............John

[davem270win]

I went with a 17 HeeBee. It's a blown out Bee case, and performs just under the 17 Fireball at max. This is in an Encore, with a barrel by a 'well known' maker. The Woodchuck Den has a load manual for a bunch of 17's and 20's - you may want to buy a copy before you make a decision. There's also a number of good articles on the web if you search.

[John020769]

Thanks for info let Me now how it works later............

[Catfish]

   I have a .17 AH, a .17-.223 and a .17 Rem. The pick of the litter for me is the .17 AH. My hunting load is a 19 gn. Calhoon at 3,600 fps. I haven`t shot the gun off the bench for a few years, but I have shot alot of 1/4 in. groups with it. Point blank range is abt. 290 yrds., and that`s with 10.4 gn`s of H-4227. The Calhoon bullets have alot tougher skin than any of the other .17`s I shot and will leave a coon looking like he was hit with a .22-250, grear for fox and up. If you build a .17 AH be very carefull when working up a load. Go up 1/10 of a gn. at a time as presure jumps very fast with the small case.

[RangerRiz]

Catfish what kind of life you getting out of the cases? I have read alot on the small cased .17s and have heard that you have to increase powder painfully slow. Also that the small component get your fingers pinched. Have you ever tried loads down around HMR level? I am not scared of the work associated with or the drawbacks associated with these cartridges. Going to probably build it on a Martini so it is not like it will be high volume shooter. The only thing it will shoot is sub 20 grain bullets at grounghogs. Mainly want it for horse farms and when i am close to houses and need to keep noise and ricochet down. Will order the barrel twist for the light bullets. All I need it to be is capable of hiting them at 0 to 200 yards. I am still considering making a wildcat .17x28 (FN 5.7x28.) Thanks for all the input.

                                                                                                                                                                                     Raqnger

[Reed1911]

I'd suggest the .17 AH as well. Plentiful brass and long case life, easy to load, hosts of suitable powders etc. You can load it down pretty easily.

The .17x28 is an odd little beast, from comments I've read and talked with folks on, the brass will not last to terribly long due to the fact that as soon as the coating begins to wear off you'll need to throw away the brass or you will get it stuck in the die. No if ands or buts. The case holders as well seem to need a little help in that you'll need to make or have made a disc to support the entire case head when necking them down or you will swage out the head to where it is no longer usable. Interesting little case, but too much work in opinion.

Will all cases in this arena you must very carefully adjust everything, powder increments in .1g, and don't just change bullets or primers without starting from scratch.

[RangerRiz]

Thanks for the info Reed. Ever think bout making one on your case? When do you think the cases for the Bee or AH will be in and will the have proper headstamps?

                                                                                                                                           Ranger

[Prebanpaul]

Ranger Riz

A guy that we both know shoots the heybee ask him.  Its Tim.

[IOWA DON]

One thing bad about the .17 Hornet. There is a big difference in brass. That is, Winchester brass weighs more than Remington brass, a lot more considering the size of the cartridge. My rough calculations show that there is enough additional brass in the Remington cases to displace 0.33 grains of powder. I developed my loads using Winchester brass, so therefore when using Remington brass I should reduce the pwder charge by about 0.33 grains. If I don't, the loads will effectively have about 0.33 grains too much powder. That additional powder in a large cartridge like a .300 Magnum probably doesn't cause much extra pressure. However, in a small case like the Hornet, 0.33 grains of powder makes a lot of difference in pressure. I usually weigh brass if I switch brands but failed to do so in this case. Luckily a gun magazine talked specifically about the difference in Remington and Winchester brass for Hornet cases. I had not yet shot any of the 100 fireforming loads I had ready to shoot, so felt lucky. I pulled the bullets from them and reloaded with a smaller powder charge.