NEF action strength

[Dust_Remover]

I'm considering getting a couple new NEF's in yet to be determined calibers.  I have a Buffalo Classic right now, and i've done limited shooting with it, however I do like it.  I also love to handload, and do it extensively for the firearms that I own that I insist on superb accuracy.  Others that I have where accuracy isn't as important I just buy factory ammo.  Anyhow, I was inquiring as to the strength of the gun as a whole.  I've been reading all over trying to find an answer on here and other forums but i'm not really getting the definitive yes or no answer that eludes me.  Are these rifles capable of handling hotter handloads? (Hotter than factory loads that is) Or is it best to stick with factory pressures and velocities?

Branden

[~Ace~]

I can't Really answer your question as I have not pushed the limits, but judging from my experience I think the Hotter loads decrease Accuracy a bunch. All mine shoot best with Mid range loads, I did not have pressure signs, just loose groups when getting closer to or at Max loads. ~Ace~

[McLernon]

Stick with published reloading data, Start 10 % down from max and never exceed max. That way you will avoid injury and live longer.
IMHO.

Mc

[nomosendero]

1. I bet you KNOW what NEF would say if you call them!!!

2.  And since you are a reloader, you know you should start well below max with your loads (at least 15% with a Handi) & work up SLOWLY from there.

Other than that, there is not alot left to say as an exact because even among Handi's, each gun is an individual & the way the chamber was made, the fitting of barrel to frame, the underlug & other things can & do vary, so ALWAYS keep that in mind & the above 2 points.

Now, if you want to compare with other actions, the NEF is  MUCH weaker than most modern bolt guns, Much weaker than a Ruger# 1, Browning & most other modern falling blocks & weaker than other break opens like the Encore & CVA Optima Elite. It
is stronger than the Contender & others such as the Trapdoor. My point is that the NEF is on the lower end of many modern rifles &
it is strong enough for their chamberings such as the 30-06 with factory ammo, the NEF does NOT provide the additional strength that many others enjoy, so it is not a dangerous gun, just different with different limits. Sooo, common sense & careful thought of what you are loading for should be paramount, as always.

[Mac11700]

Welcome to GBO...

I find it odd that you can say you haven't found the answer to your question posted here on this forum at GBO...When I know for a fact that this subject has been brought up time after time and discussed in length...how many pages have you read back thru? The BC is no different in strength than any other SB-2 Handi rifle...this too has be discussed at length...

I have a suggestion...since you say your a reloader...and just wanting to know how strong the Handi is...so you can reload for it...start reading all 332 pages post containing a lot of these same questions and answers that are available to you...I'm not meaning to be a jerk...or give a smart alack answer...but...if you truly have a genuine interest in learning about these little rifles...then you will find out all about their strengths & weaknesses by doing a little research here...

Enjoy your stay...and don't forget to check out the FAQ's that are posted at the top of the index page for this forum.

Mac

[knight0334]

The SB2's will handle plenty.   It can handle well into the Ruger #1 loads of the 45-70, which can be in excess of 4000ft lbs of energy.  If you cant kill something on the North American continent with one of those loads, then maybe you might need a bigger gun/cartridge overall. 

I've seen all sorts of guns grenade from even standard rounds and even the NEF's stand the chance of doing it too.  Always load to within industry standards for ANY make of gun.  The NEF's aren't as far behind in strength as some believe, its just that they have different limitations.  There are plenty of "strong guns" that cant handle the recoil and/or bolt thrust of the low to mid Ruger #1 loads of the 45-70 - however the Handi's and BC's will.

[nomosendero]

The SB2's will handle plenty.   It can handle well into the Ruger #1 loads of the 45-70, which can be in excess of 4000ft lbs of energy.  If you cant kill something on the North American continent with one of those loads, then maybe you might need a bigger gun/cartridge overall. 

I've seen all sorts of guns grenade from even standard rounds and even the NEF's stand the chance of doing it too.  Always load to within industry standards for ANY make of gun.  The NEF's aren't as far behind in strength as some believe, its just that they have different limitations.  There are plenty of "strong guns" that cant handle the recoil and/or bolt thrust of the low to mid Ruger #1 loads of the 45-70 - however the Handi's and BC's will.

You "have seen all sorts of guns grenade from even standard rounds". WOW, what kind of guns were those, truthfully, I have never witnessed a gun grenade. Please tell us what kind of guns & what kind of loads for our own safety.

Also, after the first one, why didn't you think there was a problem ? I believe that I would have stayed away from those boys after the first bomb.

You state that there are plenty of "strong guns" that can't handle the recoil and/or bolt thrust of the low to mid #1 loads, but the Handi can. Can you please give us those models ?

Concerning the 45-70 loads, it has been the standard for years to have 3 different power levels for 45-70 loads.
1st level is for the Trapdoor & older/weaker designs.
2nd level is for the Marlin 1895, with the NEF in this group.
3rd level is for the Ruger Number 1 & Siamese Mauser.

It is not accurate to say that the NEF can handle Ruger loads just because it can handle some of the light Ruger loads no more than we should act like a Springfield can go "well into" NEF loads. It is best to keep these catagories separate. Yes, I saw the recent link showing loads for NEF & Ruger#1 lumped together & those loads they say were "mid level" for a Ruger. That was laziness on the part of that web site lumping them together & leaving off the hotter "Ruger only" loads. The problem with this is the fact that some nimrod could see this & later wants to load some 45-70 rounds for his Handi . He doesn't find that data, but he sees some Ruger # 1 data & concludes that he can drop back a grain or two for his Handi.  WRONG!!!!!! Ruger # 1 & Handi Rifle should not be mentioned in the same breath when it comes to ACTION STRENGTH.

The Ruger is FACTORY CHAMBERED in belted mags like the 270 WEA, 300 WEA, 300 & 338 WM, 7RM, 375H & H & the Handi is NOT because it can't be. Gunsmiths install custom barrels on the Ruger for big rounds  like the 338-378, a project you can read about in Real Guns. No, this is a different animal & should be treated as such, just like the experts have done with the 3 power levels for years.

[quickdtoo]

Has has been stated many, many times, to just pick a near max load in even the levergun loads, or in any chambering/rifle for that matter, for an H&R would be fool hardy, each and every gun is an indiviual and deserves the respect of good handloading techniques. If ANYONE is going to venture into the warm levergun loads and up, they need to start in the upper trapdoor or starting levergun  loads and work up, for the most part, most shooters will get into the levergun loads and be plenty surprised with the recoil as it gets substantial and no longer fun for most folks well before they get to the top levergun loads, let alone into the low Ruger levels.

A major issue with any higher pressure load in an H&R is underlug setback, this is a problem with shooting full house loads in the .500 S&W Handi, there have been several reported having to be returned to H&R for new barrels, the used one I bought was loose on all of my late model frames, that doesn't normally happen unless the underlug has been compressed from heavy loads. Shooting hot 45-70 loads will do the same eventually, so be aware of that issue. 

Tim

[nomosendero]

Thanks Tim!

[quickdtoo]

You're welcome, it was past time for it!! 

Tim

[nomosendero]

That is so true, it really was LONG overdue. For the past 2 weeks or so this notion has been creeping in on some other threads on this forum that the Handi loads were "well into" Ruger Number 1 loads, in regards to acceptable pressures. So it is good that you stepped up to end the nonsense, before someone gets hurt.

[dumgunny]

 " It is stronger than the Contender & others such as the Trapdoor."


   Sorry, don't mean to hi-jack the post, this is a pet peeve of mine! My Dad has collected Trapdoor Springfields since I was a sprat, and I always bridle at the horse pucky that they have a "weak" action! Due to his owning ,and now my owning a dozen or so at any given time we got the pleasure of shooting them.....a lot. I killed my first deer with an old 1884 someone had sawed off to carbine specs and jb welded a set of Remingtonon M600 sights on it. The bore looked like a sewer pipe, but the little western Oklahoma buck that "caught it" in the boiler-room didn't know the difference from a new Weatherby!
   Any way, what i'm getting at is That when the Army was phasing in the Krag rifles and phasing out the trapdoors, they re-barrelled a fair  number to the 30/40 Krag ctg to see if it would be feasable to issue them to geurilas, or sell them through the CMP And they were able to handle some pretty high pressure loads, in fact, they tried to do some "destructive" tests increasing the powder charges and blocking the bores by degrees untill the actions "let go" (failed) and  something like 60% of the rifles required a full case of ball powder compressed under a steel core bullet with another 30 cal bullet driven midway down the barrel to stop them.and even then, the new barrels blew out and ruptered just ahead of the chamber.the actions held!
   The trapdoor is made of steels considered obsolete nowdays, but if you look at how it works, it would take a LOT of pressure to shear that massive wedge, and the "door" would have to buckle to open without shearing it which would leave a huge gap to vent the pressure.IT WOULDN'T BE FUN BUT IT IS SURVIVABLE!
   Is every trapdoor as strong as a Handi? No! Are some Trapdoors stronger than some Handi's? Almost certainly! Are Handis,And trapdoors asa strong a design as the Mauser 98 Absolutely NOT!
     My opinion on the original question is like my friends, Start on the low side of safe and work up CAREFULLY from there and back off at the first pressure signs I usually find that the recopil shuts me down long before I see pressure signs these days.
   JMHO
Rant Off
 

[Mac11700]

There are many reasons why folks say most old trapdoors are weak...Here is some from a current manufacture...http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/pedersoli_proof_rules_and_allowable_limits_09-04.htm

Mac