Author Topic: Backpack Rifle (Read 6674 times)

kmac · « **on:** August 14, 2007, 03:41:52 PM »

I've been working on acquiring a decent backpack rifle for a couple years. Where I'd be carting it around, I could encounter deer, black bear, bobcats, coyotes, wild dogs and miscellaneous smaller varmints. What I'm figuring is an Encore in .270 Win.

The longest piece, in order for the rifle to break down and fit the pack, needs to be 16.5" or less. The rifle is for light hunting - not for defense, so it can be broken down with the stock removed from the frame if need be.

I'm thinking about the Pro Hunter receiver, stainless, with the FlexTech stock. For the barrel, I'm thinking about a 15" stainless with the Muzzle Tamer. I'd like to keep the iron sights but also be able to mount a scope either with see-through rings or with the Leupold quick-release that doesn't need re-zeroed.

Here's the questions:

1) How long is the Muzzle Tamer? It needs to be at least 1.25" to bring the 15" barrel out to legal length for a rifle.
2) Would a 16.25" barrel Magna-Ported be better? And would I be able to have iron sights on the 16" barrel?
3) Does the peep sight (rear) fit on the centerfire rifles or only on muzzleloaders? (literature shows it as a muzzleloader accessory)
4) Would the rifle forearm fit the 15" barrel?

I know I can get most of these answers direct from TC, but I enjoy the commentary I see here. I did ask a similar question in the NEF section, but have since decided I'd rather go with the TC so that I can add stuff later.

(edited to add 4th question)

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14, 2007, 04:44:18 PM »

If you go with a lighter recoiling cambering one of the new folding stocks may be a good option.

http://www.riflestock.com/catalog_page_detail.cfm?recordno=1&Product_CatalogID=2840&ProductNumber=09%2D01%2D08&ProductCode=30&ProductSubCodeID=186&NewProduct=0

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2007, 05:35:33 AM »

If you are in the US that rifle barrel needs to be 16" long to be legal. Most make them 16.25" just to be sure they are not sited for illegally short barrel. If not in the US ignore.

southern utah · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2007, 06:37:34 AM »

kmac, you might consider the 243 , 7-08 or 308.they all have less recoil and will fit what you described. lighter bullets will also reduce recoil some. I personally don't like the noise of a muzzle brake. I prefer warne QD base and rings over Leupold because they are easier to align and don't mark the scope. I have a 16 1/4 Encore barrel in 308 used as a pistol NO muzzle brake. It is a Virgin Valley with VV base and hanger bar using rifle forearm. I have been thinking of trying it as a short rifle.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2007, 07:43:41 AM »

I'd opt for a more efficient cartridge in that short of a barrel, which would be horrendously loud with a brake of any kind. With a smaller cartridge, you could easily do without the brake and have a more comfortable recoil level as well. Black bear, the largest game you list, are not particularly hard to kill.

If you are a handloader, rounds such as the 250 Savage (my personal recommendation for your situation) and .257 Rbts. would work well. For the non-reloader, the .260 and 7mm-08 would do fine.

swampthing · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2007, 11:12:27 AM »

260rem, 7mm-08, 308win. in that order. Rifle forends will not fit pistol barrels, you will have to use a pistol fore-end with the 15" barrels. Muzzletamers are 1-7/8" {check with T/C to make absolutly sure on this one} Peep sights will work on any barrel as the aperture base mounts to the rear scope base holes on all barrels. Some experimentation will be in order to get the right hight for the front blade or fiber optic bead, plus this will have to be done by the custom shop because 15" barrels aren't drilled for front sights.
The cost of the muzzletammer, the cost of the drill/tap front sight, and the fact that you will have to use pistol fore-ends, unless you use a hanger bar set up and custom fore-ends= more money.
All that will cost you more than just ordering a 16.25" barrel from the T/C custom shop, it uses rifle fore-ends, can be drilled for sights, or front sight only in your case, {"while it's being made, not waiting for it as an after though on a 15"er"} a williams rear peep sight bolts right on for $25, front sights are dirt cheap as only the base and blade or fiber optic bead only are needed. This would be the most economical, and better looking, way to go.

kmac · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2007, 03:13:25 PM »

MANY thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I did consider the folding stock, but it makes the package too thick for the pack. This pack is my "go bag" for emergencies as well as my woods pack for the occasional outdoors trip, so the space allotted for my necessaries has to be well thought-out. I'm keeping the link, though, because I like that stock.

Not being extensively familiar with rifle calibers (my one hunting rifle is an old Browning High Power Safari, 7mm Rem Mag - it gits it done) I was going on a couple recommendations for the .270. I still think .243 is lighter than what I'd be comfortable with. I also thought about the .308, simply because of the abundance of ammo out there.

And no, I don't reload. Yet. One of the longer term reasons for getting into the TC is so that I can satisfy my "new gun" craving with just a barrel, and have some bux left to save to get into reloading.

I'll have to check out the ballistics for the .260, etc. and see how they look.

Thanks again, all. Longer barrel, smaller caliber, scratch the brake.

kid_couteau · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2007, 05:00:40 PM »

Hi All
Dont mean to hijack but I have a question

I know that in the US a rifle has to have a 16" barrel bare minimum and as GB said 16.25 is better

Also a rifle has to be at least 26" long

But does that mean it has to be 26" long with the stock folded or at least 26" long overall?

Thank you for your time
Kid

manofthe45 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15, 2007, 05:38:16 PM »

You could get a 15 in pistol barrel and have T/C's custom shop put there MB on it. puts it over the 16" mark and they will reinstall the front site if you request it. Then you have the choice of rifle or pistol with open sites. You also have all their pistol chamberings to choose from

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15, 2007, 06:23:33 PM »

The minimum length in the case of a folding stock is the folded rifle length.

southern utah · « **Reply #10 on:** August 15, 2007, 07:27:12 PM »

as an after thought buy the Encore frame as pistol frame then you can configure it as pistol or rifle. I buy mine as pistol frame and grip then make them into either.

kid_couteau · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2007, 12:50:17 AM »

Thank you GB

Take care
Kid

kmac · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2007, 01:48:43 PM »

<insert a big smile here>

Okay. What I've wound up with is a stainless Pro Hunter frame, 16.25" stainless barrel (heavy) in .308, "Peep-Rib" rear sight/scope base from EABCO and a fiberoptic front sight. This lets me either shoot iron sights or mount a scope. Picked up the frame on Monday, and the barrel and rear sight will come in tomorrow. If i can, I'll drop by TC tomorrow to pick up a front sight. (I'm in New Hampshire this week.)

Thanks again, all. This is a great forum!

kudzu · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2007, 05:46:52 AM »

I've jumped on late here, but have you thought about a pack that's made for carrying a rifle.
I have one of the Cabela's Bow/Rifle packs. It is extremlly compfortable and this would eliminate the having to break the gun down to fit in the pack. ( may also have to worry about concealed weapon laws depending on location). Also the rifle would be more readily accessable for use. Packs come in several differant sizes and you are sure to find one that fits your needs.
ggod luck,DM

ps- I've also practiced taking the pack off and on and releasing the rifle for use. This can be done in only a few seconds vs. unpacking a rifle and then having to assemble it. Just a thought. DM

kmac · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2007, 12:30:20 PM »

The smaller Cabela's pack is still a bit larger than what I want to deal with. Since this is my "go bag," I need to keep it compact with everything inside. The last thing I need is to pull out a bag during an urban emergency with a big ol' rifle hanging out of it.

I also like being able to get through brush and scrub without a barrel sticking up to catch on branches.

The pack is modified so that I can get to the rifle without dumping the rest of the contents.

I did get over to TC today and picked up the front sight. I'm using the fiber-optic sight that TC puts on the muzzleloaders. Since the barrel is not a Thompson home-grown (it's from Match Grade Machine) they were loath to drill and tap for the front sight, so I took it to a local machine shop and got the work done. The rifle fits the pack like it was made for it. The peep sight and the front sight should work out well.

Next step is to get to a range and see how well it zeroes. The front sight is the tallest that they had, but I'm concerned that it may still be too short. I've got a laser bore sight at home, and I'll mount it up and do the rough zeroing when I get back home.

I'll put up pictures and a range report when I get through it all.

jw4570 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:44:52 PM »

I'm happy to see you choose 308. The only other caliber over that I would have chosen would be 30-06. I have a 308 Barrel and love it, kind wish it was a 30-06, but I have a boatload of 308 Silvertips 150 gr so there you go.

I think I would have bought a T/C Barrel and cut it down to 16.25"

The folding stock I think is measured with the stock extended, see this FAQ (as an Uzi easily fails the 26" closed with a 16" barrel)

http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/FAQ.htm

however, it is an area of common question, so consult the appropriate regulating agency (federal or state) for the most recent information. Some states have more restrictive laws than the feds.

I would considered a folding stock, but not stock shown, it looks flimsy.

manofthe45 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:47:05 PM »

Quote from: jw4570 on August 24, 2007, 12:44:52 PM

The folding stock I think is measured with the stock extended, .

Already answered here

Quote from: Graybeard on August 15, 2007, 06:23:33 PM

The minimum length in the case of a folding stock is the folded rifle length.

Dogmann · « **Reply #17 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:02:20 PM »

Post some pics when you get her together.........

wJAKE19 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 28, 2007, 06:24:42 AM »

yea, hurry and get some pics on here, I wan to see this thing.
how does it shoot?

Dogmann · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2007, 07:32:18 AM »

That EABCO Peep Rib sight is COOL! I really like that. What do you use for the front sight.....fiber optic also?

jw4570 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 28, 2007, 03:59:10 PM »

manofthe45,

With all due respect, I don't see where the question was "already answered here". Graybeard said it's the "folded rifle length" whereas I pointed to a site where it states it's with the stock extended.

Here is another:

http://www.cruffler.com/legal-May-00.html

Folded, to me, means the shorter length the stock is in position, not the extended or "open" length.

An underfolding AK is about 25.75" folded with the muzzle brake attached, so it stands to reason that it's with the stock "open".

Again, I'm not a lawyer, or giving legal advice, but pointing out that there seems to be conflicting information on this particular subject.

And many states have laws that apply in addition to the federal law, so you would need to know those state laws as well.

Dogmann · « **Reply #21 on:** September 10, 2007, 10:48:27 AM »

PICS PICS PICS PICS.Please.

kmac · « **Reply #22 on:** September 11, 2007, 03:10:38 AM »

I used the T/C fiber optic front sight from the muzzleloaders, but I think it's too short. Haven't had time to get to the range to zero it yet, so I don't know for sure.

What I may have to do is get a machine shop to make me a shim base for the front sight to get it up to where it needs to be. Note that the muzzleloader barrels are straight, while the heavy barrel (and the standard barrel) are tapered so common sense says that the front sight will be low by the difference in the radius of the tapered barrel with the radius of the muzzleloader barrel.

I'll try to get at least a quick picture up later today.

kmac · « **Reply #23 on:** September 11, 2007, 02:02:24 PM »

Pictures:

With iron sights:

With scope:

Rear peep:

Fiber optic through peep:

Good things come in small packages. Broken down to pack:

You can tell I'm not a professional photographer, but at least you can get the idea.

Dogmann · « **Reply #24 on:** September 11, 2007, 03:57:36 PM »

VERY VERY NICE!/ Now- Is that a standard TC barrel or a custom one? Did you put the sights on or did EABCO do that?

Dogmann · « **Reply #25 on:** September 11, 2007, 04:00:47 PM »

Nevermind- I found the answers in one of your posts!

C A Plater · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2007, 02:41:14 AM »

Got yourself a nice looking outfit there. I've got a couple of Encore barrels with iron sights and for the one in .405 Winchester the problem was too high a front sight for the rear ramp so you may be just fine with yours. Range work will tell for sure. Good shooting.

kmac · « **Reply #27 on:** September 19, 2007, 03:51:13 PM »

Alllllllllllllrighty, then.

Finally got to play at the range, and there's some good news and some not as good news.

I used Federal Power-Shoks - 150gr, nominally 2820fps - mainly because that's what I had with me. I happened to find myself with part of an afternoon free, and went to one of the PA state-maintained public ranges.

After rough-sighting through the barrel (with some help from a gentleman who was shooting from the bench next to me) I took the first shot at 50 yards. High and right, but not by much, so I went straight to the 100 yard target.

Three shots, high and right and spread somewhat horizontally. Dialed in the scope. First shot absolutely dead center. Second shot about 2 inches right and a half inch high. Third shot about 3/4 inch from the first one.

Hmmmmm.

Started doing 4-shot groups and discovered that hits were alternating, right on and wide right. Tried a 6-shot group and wound up with two nice sub-1-inch patterns.

The scope base that held so much promise just ain't gonna work. It's plenty tight, but because it was designed for muzzleloader (no taper in the barrel) it walks back and forth as I shoot. In addition, the front sight is, as I feared, too low. So it's back to the gun shop to get a more appropriate scope base and I'm not sure what I'm going to do about iron sights. The whole idea was to be able to remove the scope (Leupold quick-release rings), shoot with iron sights and be able to re-mount the scope without haveing to re-zero it.

I could not be more pleased with the rifle. Recoil is noticeable but nowhere near what I thought it would be. Trigger pull is a bit stiff. I'm used to 3.5lbs on my 1911, and I may take the rifle to Ohio to have a trigger job done and reduce the pull.

In discussions with the guy next to me the subject of velocity in a shorter barrel came up. I allowed as how I should get hold of a chronograph and see what my real velocity was rather than depend on the numbers on the box. He promptly went to his car and came back with a chronograph! He set it up, and I fired three rounds. 2640, 2640 and 2614. Better than I thought it would be.

So. With the right scope mount, it looks as if I can do sub-1-inch groups at 100 yards. Once I get the scope/sight situation sorted out, I'll get it back to the range and we'll see. The plan is to zero the iron sights at 100 and the scope at 200.

I'm extremely pleased with the rifle. And now that I have a spare muzzleloader peep sight, I guess I'll just have to get a muzzleloader barrel!

Chris Potts · « **Reply #28 on:** September 19, 2007, 05:15:59 PM »

I don't think that the barrel taper would affect a scope base. The barrel isn't tapered where the scope base attaches.

Chris

kmac · « **Reply #29 on:** September 19, 2007, 06:02:03 PM »

This scope base is long, and it extends past the taper. If you look at the 5th picture above (barrel/forearm upside down) you can see where the base rides out over the taper.