Progress on the Target model Dixie setup (more progress)

[handirifle]

I'm not sure there is enough material for a dovetail.  I have an idea of making a dovetail insert of steel and attaching it to a Weaver base and attaching the ring to that.

[handirifle]

OK here is a drawing of what I've come up with for the front. 



I'll try to explain it, there is one piece missing, lost in the save I guess.  The thin lines at bottom center are a weaver scope mount with the top cut flush and smooth.  The upside down "U" around it will be 1/2" wide steel, with a 1/2 X 3/4" steel section on top.  The ring will be brazed to the 1/2 x 3/4 section and this all will be brazed to the upside down "U".

The bold horizontal line with the large and small circles at the end will be the windage adjustment screw (left) and the lock nut (right) to set mechanical zero.  The screw will pass through the out side downward hanging "tangs" and through a threaded hole in the base section.

This whole thing will be held to the barrel by a screw running down through the top of the base section and into a steel dovetail insert tapped into the barrel dovetail.

I'll need to locate a 7/8" steel bar to form the ring around.

Hope this makes sense to someone besides me.

[McLernon]

By the way, what do you think of the scope itself. Are the cross-hairs nice and thin and is there enough light?

Thanks

Mc

[handirifle]

Mac
The crosshairs are very thin, and suprisingly there seems to be plenty of light.  Of course the range day, there was clear skies and 107 deg temps, but I don't really plan on trying this out in the deep back woods either.

I'm told the MVA scope is much higher quality, but have never looked through one.  MVA has a fine reputation amoung the BPCR shooters.  fOR THIS PROJECT, AND FOR MY USES, THIS SCOPE IS MORE THAN ok.   If I were going to compete with it, I'd look closely at the MVA or Malcom scope.

The rear mount seems to hold it plenty stable, especially with the light recoil of the 38-55.

My load development so far, is stopped until this is completly satisfactory as far as mounts go.  I just got a return email from montana Vintage arms (MVA) and their front mount starts at $125.   It is a quality looking piece, for sure, but too rich for my blood.  Besides, I prefer it this way, it's a fun learning process.

[handirifle]

OK another update, not a big one but I have a breakthrough, I think.    OK here it is, I'm going to make a steel dovetail insert and over that I'll place a piece of scope base that is curved at the bottom to match the barrel shape, so it's flush on the bottom.  I'll drill and tap a hole through the dovetail insert and fasten the scope base piece to it with the appropiate screw size.

From there I'll do as one of the suggestions mentioned, and place a Leupold scope ring on the base.  I'm going to make a steel ring to insert into the 1" scope ring that will bring it to 7/8", then I can insert the leather I used in the first mickeymouse set up (this is mickeymouse setup number 2 ).

I will lower the rear mount quite a bit to adjust the verticle zero, and I believe i can set the horizontal zero with a combo of spacers in the rear, and filing off the sides of the scope base to adjust for windage.

I'm pretty sure this will work, at least I think so.  I have the scope rings on the way, and already have the other parts needed.

I bet for every hours work I put in this, I THINK about it for three or four.

In the end this will be a simpler, cleaner and stronger setup.

[handirifle]

Well, I went to the range today after making some mods, not done, but wanted to see how it was going.

BUMMER, I first set the rifle on the rest and peeked through the scope.  Noticed it was very hard to see.  Cleaned the scope of powder residue, and still had.  Then realized it has the glass right on the very front of the tube and I was facing into the sun.  I tried to focus it a bit and here's the bummer.  As I turned the focus ring, I could actually see the cross hairs going around in an OFF CENTER CIRCULAR MOTION.  This really bites!

I guess I got what I paid for in a scope.

So I guess I shelve this project, and maybe put a set of the Smith sights on it or maybe another tang sight.  I think I'll go with the tang again.  Then I can use it on the BC barrel I hope to add to it later on.

Oh, well it was worth a try.

[quickdtoo]

Contact Dixie and see what they have to say, worth a shot! A sunshade will cure the flare.

Tim

[Mac11700]

Maybe they will replace it for you...or perhaps it's time to look into the MVA or Malcom scope. ehh

Mac

[handirifle]

Well I didn't get it from Dixie, got it online used , and cannot afford a Malcom as yet.  I'll just shelve it for now and work on the tang sight setup.  maybe someday I can afford the malcom, but I think I'll go with a shorter model, when I do.  Got kinda old cleaning BP off the front lens of the scope.

[quickdtoo]

If it's the Dixie scope, I'd still call them, whatcha got to loose?   

Tim

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/contact_us.php?osCsid=7493af4adf3783422b416f95fcfce7f8

[handirandy]

Just a thought.  I know the Alum. might be soft, but could you split the front mount up the middle about half way (across the barrel).  Put a set screw or maybe two drilled and tapped along the direction of the barrel from the rear.  This would allow you to use the dovetail portion as an expandable wedge that could be set then tightened.

[Brett]

Looks pretty cool Handirifle.  I think if I were doing it though I would incorporate both windage and elevation adjustments into the rear scope mount and use the front site mount as a fixed gimble of sorts.  Look at how a ladder site works and think of how you could modify the design to hold the rear scope ring.   The front mount could be a simple ball and socket. 

[handirifle]

Brett
That was how it started off to be but about half way along I changed my mind, due to limited machine capabilities (and mine).  This will be shelved for a bit.  I think I'll work on a midway mount and putting on the 3X Malcome scope.  In the meantime, I'll still work up my adjustable mounts, and the tang sight project.


"handirandy"

Boy that name looks familiar.


Tim

I suppose I could, but a little put off on this scope.  I can't say I wasn't warned about the quality of the scope beforehand.

[quickdtoo]

Here ya go Handi!!

Tim

http://www.opticsplanet.net/hilux-leatherwood-wm-malcom-long-malcom-scope-mount-set.html

[handirifle]

Well, looks like I need to call Dixie and see if something can be done.  I'd hoped to make one but for that price, it's not worth it.  Might have to make a mount adapter for the rear, but that's easy compared to the whole setup.

Thanks for the link Tim

[handirifle]

Well, sent Dixie an email, and no dice.  They don't do warranty work on the scopes.  They mentioned the name of the maker, so I have to try that route.  Some Japanese Co.  Can't recall the name at this moment.

[quickdtoo]

You might check with ABO or Mike Sexton.

Tim

http://www.abousainc.com/

http://ironsightinc.com/

[handirifle]

Well, no luck on repairs, so I came up with my own fix, for now anyway.  It seems to not make a beans worth of difference where the focus is set, Soooooo,  I screwed it all the way in, voila!  No more crosshair wobble.  Anyway its not a real fix, but it will work for me.

So fo now THAT prooblem is solved. 

Tim
Looking at the mounts in the links you gave me, I see I was making the front design way too complicated (in my head anyway) and have a better idea.  Shouldn't be too long now, maybe sometime this week.

[handirifle]

Have to jump in the shower and head to work, but just wanted to mention that I am almost completed with the scope mounts, front and rear.

I started to take some pics of my progress this morning and the camera battery went dead.

Anyway, will post the pics and the final details in the original post, as Tim wanted to keep it all together.

Once it's completely done (are they ever?) I'll get back to loading and load testing.

One bit of a note that goes along with some other posts, Just for kicks I have a dummy .375 Win with a 200gr bullet, and a dummy 38-55 with the 2.1" Starline brass loaded with a flat nosed Barnes TSX that I'm making for my Winchester.  The 375 round wouldn't chamber, but the Barnes and Starline setup did easily.

I'm convinced the ogive of the bullet has as much or more to do with the chambering issues, as actual bullet diameter.

[quickdtoo]

I experimented last night with the .379" 375248 bullets that Western sent me in error, chambered fine in the Starline 2.125" brass, but they wouldn't in WW 375Win brass, with a bullet seated in each case, the WW 375 round measures .398" at the case mouth, the Starline measures .394". I found a link at Shooters Forum on using 38-55 and 30-30 brass in 375 Marlins at 375 Win pressures, so I think I'll just stick with the longer 38-55 brass loaded to pressures that work with gas checked bullets that shoot good without leading, I'm investigating nose sizing the 312gr Postell bullets so they're bore riders, more on than when I do some more reading. 

Tim

[Saloon slug]

Handirifle are you going to bring you project to the get together next month? would love to see it in person.

JReed

[handirifle]

Tim, I see you moved this one too, thanks.  I have it as a link on my laptop but was at the office desktop when I made the quick post.

I have a few more adjustments to the front assembly, then I'll take it apart, take pics and post them, hopefully tomorrow.

The front assembly is WAY simpler than before, and much cleaner looking.  Hope you guys will like it as much as I do.  Will explain more when pics are posted.  I'm gonna work on load development for it as soon as the weather clears, my health comes back, and I can get to the range.

SS
Yes, I was planning on bringing it out, in addition to the .375 Barnes TSX's I've made for the 375 levergun.  The Barnes bullets, I KNOW will not do well in the 38-55, but would like to get feedback from others on them in person.

[Saloon slug]

Cant wait  From reading this you put a whole lot of work into this project.

[quickdtoo]

As before, thought it best to keep the traditional scoping of your Target all together so newbies and oldies are all on the same page as the saga continues.

Tim

[no.country]

I am calling on a failing memory but years ago there was a scope co. that made a fixed
scope and had adjustable bases  that allowed elevation and windage. Quick somebody
 will remember who that was. I think that might be the complete solution.
just my.02cents worth no.country
 

[handirifle]

I am calling on a failing memory but years ago there was a scope co. that made a fixed
scope and had adjustable bases  that allowed elevation and windage. Quick somebody
 will remember who that was. I think that might be the complete solution.
just my.02cents worth no.country
 

There are several that sell the entire setup, but being that I am cheap, I wanted to make my own, mounts, not scope.  I bought a Dixie scope, just to see if this would work.

some of the rear mounts alone can run several hundred dollars.

[handirifle]

OK let me hopefully describe what I've done.  It's fully operational now and will be used for load development only for this summer.  I have improvements in my mind, but they will have to wait, for now I want to shoot.

I'll start off with the front, since I've detailed the rear quite a bit, but did make some changes there also.  The base of the project has been, in my mind, a custom dovetail insert.  So I got a piece of bar stock and filed/ground one to fit, as shown.



Next, I took out the Dremmel tool and slowly ground the insert to contour with the barrel.  The reason for that is a piece of scope base will go on top and I wanted it to fit as close to flush as possible.  Here you can see the insert after grinding.



I drilled and tapped the insert (before grinding) to a 6-48.  Then cut a piece off the scope base I had modified early on in this project, and installed it over the insert.  Remember, my MAIN goal here was to NOT make any new holes in the barrel.



Next I took an old 7/8"" rimfire scope ring and cut/ground it down to make just a plain circle.



You can see the ring I made, around the scope, 3 pics up.  This ring, houses a strip of leather, that I use to allow the front of the scope to move up and down, and side to side without binding or bending the scope.  There might be better ways, but this is solid and it works, so I stuck with it.

Next, I installed a scope ring I found (no idea who makes it) that was ideal for my project, over the modified scope base.  The ring has side to side adjustments that will allow me to zero the windage for the scope and lock it down.



The plain circle ring, the strip of leather are all slightly over 1" dia so a little grinding was in order to make it fit, but the top of the ring finally fit over the whole mess.  I think it looks better in person, but you know the old, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing.

I modified the rear slightly, by removing the alum block from under it and drilling and tapping right into the ring itself.  This works better than before, but is not the FINAL piece, but for now, it'll do.



Here's a so-so pic of the rifle.



Sorry for the lousy pics, but was AGAIN running out of time and had to get ready for work (am there now).

Hopefully in the next week or so I'll have a range report on this whole thing and see if it has been worth it.  It has to me, but it's been a lot of work re-inventing the wheel.

[quickdtoo]

Nice work Handi!! Clever idea on the front mount, there is something the Millett Angle-loc rings are good for besides damaging scope tubes!! 

thx,

Tim

[handirifle]

Thanks Tim, figured you or someone else would know.  Finally, they are being used AS DESIGNED, huh?

[handirifle]

Well got the dixie to the range today, but mixed results.  no pics cause there was nothing worth takin one of.

The range was crowded today, and even though I started with the target only 50yds away, I wasn't really sure where it was hitting.  Sounds really bad, but I don't think it's as bad as you think.  I wanted to move the target to 25yds, get it zeroed at 25 than move it back.  With the combo of the busy range and getting a last minute call from the wife, I had to cut the session short.  In addition, I was testing my 375 Winchester loads using the self made Barnes TSX 180 levergun bullets.  Quite a bit more productive than the target model test.

let me explain.  There's a lot of holes in the back stop of my target and with the powder smoke (GOEX powder) it made it hard to really tell where it was hitting.  Something was amiss in my loads, but not sure if it's the loads or scope at this point.

So for kicks and grins I started shooting at the steel plates way out yonder.  One was a 18" plate at 400yds.  Took about 4 shots and started hitting it.  Out there I could see where the bullets were hitting, AFTER the smoke cleared .  I nailed it about 4-5 times after that.  Then on to the 24" plate at 650yds.  not sure if I hit that one, but am pretty sure I did.  It was a process of elimination, if I did'nt see dust, I figured I hit it.  The fun part was ,shoot, watch smoke clear, THEN watch bullet hit dirt , that slow moving bullet has its advantages.

The rear scope adjustment easily goes to 500yds, but I had to hold over about 2 feet to hit at 600.  I discovered, that I do still need to redesign the rear a bit.  Update later on that.  The front mount works very well, just like I hoped it would.

My loads are Lee cast at 245gr, in front of 2.8cc of GOEX cartridge powder, slightly compressed.  Average velocity was 1290 and was VERY consistant.  Temp was 68 deg, wind less than 5 mph, and clear, elevation about 3000ft.  One of the reasons I stay in this silly state.

All in all, not really too bad of day.  That 38-55 load, and the addition of the recoil pad on the monte carlo stock, make shooting this thing about like a 223.  i'll load some more and find another day to sneak out and START at 25 till I see what's going on.  Let me add this, the scope is a blast to shoot with, just makes it a lot of fun.  If it turns out to be a scope problem, I'll just save up for a malcom scope and put it in the same mounts.

I'll plan on getting a 45-70 barrel (BC) and doing the same thing to it.  Either that, OR get another Target model barrel, and have it bored to 40-65.