Author Topic: Semi auto pistols. What's the difference between blowback and recoil?  (Read 1241 times)

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Offline Warthog

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I've read that rimfire and centerfire pistols up to .380 use a blowback operation whereas larger centerfire pistols are recoil operated.  Sorry, I don't understand the difference.  Help?
Whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger.  Right up until it kills you.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Semi auto pistols. What's the difference between blowback and recoil?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 07:11:39 AM »
Warthog: Actually, they are all recoil operated I believe.  There aer two types:  (1) Direct blowback pistols cycle the action through the direct force of the detonating cartrdige against the slide - that energy cycles the slide back to recock the hammer mechanism, extract and eject the empty cartridge and the recoil spring then cycles the slide forward to chamber another cartridge.  This type of action is used for the smaller cartridges because when you get to 9mm levels the recoil is pretty violent. 

Early on in pre-war Germany, Walther developed a direct blowback pistol in 9mm that looked like a oversized PP, but they did not produce it.  The Spanish produced two pistols in 9mm calibers in direct blowback, the Astra Models 400 and 600.  The 400 was chambered in 9mm.  The 600 was chambered in 9mm Largo.  The pistol were produced with a very heavy recoil spring as part of their design to help reuce the recoil of the direct blowback design in those calibers. 

(2) Delayed blowback or delayed recoil.  In these designs the barrel is not fixed into the frame as it is with many of the smaller calibers, but 'hinged' (with a link and a pin) I guess you could call it and moves rearward a bit during the recoil and cycling process.  As best as I can relate, when the centerfire goes off, like the 1911, before the slide begins its rearward travel, the barrel is dropped out of battery (lockup with the slide) by recoil and this 'delays' the speed of the slide travel to make recoil manageable (I think I think that's how it works....) and then the recoil spring pushes the slide forward through the cycling process.  Most all of the military sized pistols I know of use the delayed blowback system, 9mms, 45s, etc. 

I think I'm on track with this.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline ed1921

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Re: Semi auto pistols. What's the difference between blowback and recoil?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 05:33:51 PM »
  Just to add, the weight/inertia of the slide & the force of the spring keeps the slide from moving rearward until the bullet leaves the barrel on blowback mechanisms.
  The other locks the barrel to the slide until the bullet leaves the barrel & the pressure decreases enough to safely allow the slide to move rearward & extract the casing & chamber another round.  Their are a number of mechanisms that are used to lock the barrel & slide. Toggle & link like the Colt 1911, a ramp/cam like S&W's I'm familiar with, a toggle as on German Luger, a gas operated system like on a Desert Eagle & various combinations & permutations. Berretta had spiral system on the Couger that allows the barrel to rotate to unlock it from the slide I think.
  In general .22 to .380 use a blowback system. The 9mm and above use a locked breach.  The extra slide weight & spring tension for a blowback in these calibers make it impractical although it's been done. I have a .380 that is much harder to rack the slide on than a .45 1911 because of the spring tension.

Offline blhof

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Re: Semi auto pistols. What's the difference between blowback and recoil?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2007, 02:08:48 AM »
You forgot to mention the Desert Eagle; a true gas operated pistol; gas driven piston under barrel that actuates the action to cycle the round.

Offline Vincent

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Re: Semi auto pistols. What's the difference between blowback and recoil?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2007, 09:12:06 AM »
An exception to the .380 Blow back (usually correct) is the very popular Kel-Tek P3AT .380 which is "recoil" operated. It is so small that blow back would have been very difficult. Even it's little brother the .32 ACP is also recoil operated.

I really like my P3AT. I don't leave home with out it