FOOD DRYING.

[powderman]

We've dried various things for a lot of years and especially like the dried green beans, leather britches. I want to dry a bunch of potatoes. I've heard that lemon juice is used in some way but don't know how. Several years ago we were given a bucket of potatoes sliced and dried, they were great. Theres a way to dry them that they don't turn brown, just don't know what it is. Help me out guys. Thanks, Charlie. 

[dukkillr]

lemon juice works on fruit to keep it from turning brown.  I've used it on bananas.  It ends up being just one more thing to mess with though, and I guess I don't care too much about the color of my dried food.

[Gary G]

We've dried various things for a lot of years and especially like the dried green beans, leather britches. I want to dry a bunch of potatoes. I've heard that lemon juice is used in some way but don't know how. Several years ago we were given a bucket of potatoes sliced and dried, they were great. Theres a way to dry them that they don't turn brown, just don't know what it is. Help me out guys. Thanks, Charlie. 

Pour some lemon juice in a bowl of water. As you cut the potatoes let them fall in the water. Fruit fresh does the same thing. It's the citric acid in it.

[Mikey]

Now this makes me wonder if the native Americans actually sliced up things like potatoes and dropped them in lemon juice before drying. 

I have been wondering how to dry and preserve vegetables from the garden in case of societal failure and the loss of electrical power and fuels for heat, vehicles, chain saws, etc.  I can cut firewood by hand and I can get a hand pump for my well, for heat and water, and I can smoke meats or dry them for preservation.  I would assume our native Americans simply dried their produce and then refreshed it with water but I would think some produce had to be consumed before it spoiled.  I would also think some produce like corn and potatoes would have been dried and ground to flour, but I really don't know. 

I know the native Americans grew a wide variety of produce, probably cultivated from native plants but I don't know how they would have preserved them so they didn't starve over the winters. 

I need to put up a small building in a remote (powerless) location and had thought of a small garden to try and put some produce away for when I visit the building during the winter but would like some ideas on drying and preserving both game meats and produce for winter storage and use.  Whatcha all think?  Mikey.

[corbanzo]

I think I could give up gas for pretty much everything except my chainsaws....

[deltecs]

Now this makes me wonder if the native Americans actually sliced up things like potatoes and dropped them in lemon juice before drying. 

I have been wondering how to dry and preserve vegetables from the garden in case of societal failure and the loss of electrical power and fuels for heat, vehicles, chain saws, etc.  I can cut firewood by hand and I can get a hand pump for my well, for heat and water, and I can smoke meats or dry them for preservation.  I would assume our native Americans simply dried their produce and then refreshed it with water but I would think some produce had to be consumed before it spoiled.  I would also think some produce like corn and potatoes would have been dried and ground to flour, but I really don't know. 

I know the native Americans grew a wide variety of produce, probably cultivated from native plants but I don't know how they would have preserved them so they didn't starve over the winters. 

I need to put up a small building in a remote (powerless) location and had thought of a small garden to try and put some produce away for when I visit the building during the winter but would like some ideas on drying and preserving both game meats and produce for winter storage and use.  Whatcha all think?  Mikey.

Mikey, I live in a very remote area of Alaska where there is no town or community whatsoever.  My wife and I live here by ourselves and have for almost 30 years off and on.  We have lived here continuously for the last 7 years.  For most of those years we do our shopping in the summer and fall and then cease going to town at all from about Oct until late April or May.  That is a long time before resupply.  We buy a couple hundred weight of russet potatoes.  It seems the russets with the thick skins seem to last longer.  We separate each potatoe and wrap it in newspaper then place it inside of 10 # onion sacks and hang them.  They are keep dry and dark that way without any contamination to other potatoes if packed in a box.  The same with onions.  We've eaten potatoes bought in the fall in May and they are still crisp when cut.  A food dehydrator will dehydrate almost any food you may want to store.  I don't use one but thought about it.  Canned goods for veggies are a must.  If you are seeking a long term set up, then you'll strongly consider a chainsaw for firewood, building lumber and planks, and even the building itself.  For short term use, a small generator would suffice for power and use minimal fuel, if used with a good battery invertor backup.  If you are near a small stream with some head, a small dam with a water ram would supply your water needs, when filtered.  With enough head a small hydro gen set up could be built using 2" high density polypropylene pipe for the pen stock and a 12 v car generator with external voltage regulator for charging a battery bank.  A 12 v car alternator would work, if you had enough pressure and water volume, but I've found the generator to be better for fluctuations in water flow.  My house is set up for both AC and DC systems.  I use the AC generator during the day and battery, invertor at night.  The AC during the day is for charging the batteries, while using AC power tools and appliance like washers, etc.  Again, one can get by with fewer amenities, but life should be enjoyed with hunting time, beach combing, or enjoying the weather, instead of working all the time for survival.  Time saving equipment means that it should be used for just that, instead of saving more time for work.  At least that is my philosophy. 

[Mikey]

Greg - thanks very much for the information.  I feel that if society goes to poo there won't be any real fuel availablity for chainsaws and the like and I needed insights on preserving foods for basic survival.  Without fuels the chainsaws are useless, so my 1-2 man saw would work for that.  There is water available but no water power.  I can hunt, fish or eat the dogs or hapless passersby if the need be but no gas for the car for the drive-in on Sat. night.....

Amenities - an enclosed building with a roof, a dry place to ummm sit and think, a stove to cook on and keep the building warm and possibly some surplus crop to trade for foods I don't yet grow.  If society schmidts, there won't be fuel for vehicles or heat or if there is it will be whatever is left in tanks in the cities which will be dangerous armed encampments, there won't be electrical power or water.  Some degree of civilization may return eventually but it sure won't be anything near what it was before.

In the interim and before the great re-distrubtion of wealth and property separates the different factions in this great land, being able to store some spuds, onions and a few other veggies to support game meats (and yes, the neighbor's free range chickens) makes me feel a lot better.  Thanks again.  Mikey.

[deltecs]

Mickey, there is a huge difference in short term compared to long term survival techniques and methods.  Before attempting long term survival plans, it is good idea to try the short term solutions first for a while, maybe a couple of weeks to get aclimized to a particular situtation.  Then you will have a better concept of long term survival.  Remember much of long term survival depends on just what you do in the short term to prepare for the catrostropic survival.  Finding our what is needed for short term survival in extremely important for long term existence.  Also, remember that catostropic survival is absent of law and rules, so one doesn't need to worry about water rights or depend on permits for power.  Also, I would not choose a place without some hydro or very good adequate supply of water.  A small water wheel will supply some power, even if minimal.  Any construction effort to save time for hunting and planting while increasing productivity will eventually merit strong consideration.  Even an electric DC light bulb will last for years.  I rarely replace DC bulbs and have gone to the AC coiled fluorescent screw in bulbs at home.  Those last about 10 times longer than regular bulbs on dirty or inconsistent Hertz generation for AC.  The work done by night from a DC bulb will increase your productivity for long term survival by not having to render fat for candles or oil in wick lamps.  In a catrostropic survival situation, products we currently enjoy daily will be scarce or non existent, so take advantage in the short term for any labor savings ahead of time.  One can last a long time if prepared for catostropic events, but he must be able to use what tools, supplies, and forethought for the short term as to take advantage of the time needed to stabalize his chosen location with food, shelter, tools, clothing, medical, water, energy, and edibles storage. 

[bilmac]

Mickey
I saw somewhere that the big three of Indian farming was corn, beans, and squash. I can see the logic of this, all are easy to harvest  and store. Most will grow well in most of the US. The indians didn't have spuds but I would grow them too, they are just a little trickier to store.

I assume you know that you need to grow heirloom varieties. These are non hybrids so you can harvest your own seeds and replant year after year.

[Totenkopf]

 If you want to look into how they dried without power. Just think about the climate and location. Many tribes of the west were nomadic hunters through the winter. Everything to be dried would be done in fall. When the air was cool and the wind was constantly blowing on the plains. Of coarse they would follow the game and eat them. The dried meats and vegetables were a supplement to get them through.

 To dry fish and meat I do so in fall when the temp is down and wind is howling. Under a lean to shed I have several hundred stainless fishing hooks hanging from rafters. The barb on each one is pinched to shank with pliers and the point knocked off with file so as not to get stuck. Cut into strips as thin as possible and hit medium with salt and heavy with pepper. It usually takes 2 days for fish and 4 or 5 days for red meat. As long as it's not damp outside.
 I do the same with root crops but skewer like a shishkabob leaving room between each on stainless aircraft cable hung horizontally. I just thread on a string full then hang and separate at the last. One side has a loop attached to a hook, the other has an aluminum stop and is placed in a notch sawwed into rafter.
 Of coarse as you know you can purchase a small grinding mill for dried cereal crops and corn. As long as there is not to much water content most fruit and vegetables can be dried with the wind.

[Cornbelt]

For what its worth, when I was a kid the tater farmers around here said to leave the dirt on, spread out not touching, keep cold, but not frozen. And it worked. Don't know the variety.

[bilmac]

Yup  if you grow them, store them without washing.

[huntswithdogs]

Growing up, my Dad stored potatoes in our basement on  wire screen deal. He'd lay out a layer of hay or straw, on the screen, then a layer of potatoes and so on. The folks down the road from us, had what I reckon you'd call a root cellar. I was little room like deal built back into a bank with a door on it. He'd store his taters, turnips, beets and carrots in baskets filled with hay or straw. My Mama canned(mason, kerr and mayonaise jars) most of the veggies from our garden. Home grown and canned maters make the best sketti sauce and chili beans ever.


HWD

[CannonKrazy]

I remember as a kid storing potatoes in a bed outside. My family had a big garden every year and we always had potatoes. We would put plastic down and pile pine straw or leaves on for the bed. The straw was usually about four inches deep. We then had a wire cage that fit over the bed. We then covered the wire with old cloth or worn out cloths then covered that with more pine straw and leaves. When the potatoes were dug we would let them sit out for a few day and then put in the bed. We would always have plenty through the winter. We never had any freeze this way. Many times we would have extra potatoes that would begin to sprout eyes during the winter. These were our next years seed. All we did was cut the potatoes in two or three peices and plant the eyes face up. This also worked for sweet potatoes and sugar cane too. The cane was turned into syrup

[Westbound]

the topic is a year and a half old, but i'll contribute anyways

for potatoes or any fruit that could turn brown (apples, pears, bananas, etc) you can use Fruit-fresh.  its in the canning section at most grocery stores.  I think it uses acsorbic acid.

you can also use lemon juice.  i use about a 1/2 gallon of water with 2 or 3 tables spoons of lemon juice. 

just dip your potatoes or fruit in, then dry or dehydrate.
this can make for some pretty dried foods!

[blind ear]

Drying potatoes, saw a tv program about South American Indians where the potato originated. They let the potatos freeze at night and when they thawed the next day they would step on them and mash them squashed flat. They let them sun dry and stored them. The program didn't have any more details.

They had several types of potatoes, all different colors and flavors.

We dried granny Smith Apples in north Mississippi by pealing them, sliceing them and spreading them on top of the barn on clean tin. Mom knew when they were chewy enough to take down. Just kept them from being mushey when thawed because she stored them in the freezer. Used them for fried pies.

 There is a book on preserving and storeing food but I don't know the name of it, tells about dry storage, no refrigeration. Gave it to my daughter.

 I know this is an old thread but this sight it is rather like finding an old magazine you haven't seen. Fun and interesting to read. eddie

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

    Though some of the techniques of the American Indians are interesting, you can't let them be your only guide.  Indians routinely went through long periods of time when they could only eat once every two or three days, instead of three times a day.   For them, it was business as usual.  If food ran short during the winter, the old and weak starved to death.  Again, for them, it was business as usual.

   And, the corn-bean-squash system of the Eastern tribes worked OK, as long as they had large tracts of forest that they could burn to the ground every few years, to create new and fertile planting areas.  If not, then the only way to make the stuff grow was to put a dead fish in every seed mound (as Squanto showed).   So, where are you gonna get these fish?

    Don't hold out the Indian way of life as a model of efficiency and fine living. They were truly stone-age people (until Europeans gave them some metal and glass), and by necessity they lived hard and cruel lives.

Regards,

Mannyrock

[rex6666]

Dear Guys,

    Though some of the techniques of the American Indians are interesting, you can't let them be your only guide.  Indians routinely went through long periods of time when they could only eat once every two or three days, instead of three times a day.   For them, it was business as usual.  If food ran short during the winter, the old and weak starved to death.  Again, for them, it was business as usual.

   And, the corn-bean-squash system of the Eastern tribes worked OK, as long as they had large tracts of forest that they could burn to the ground every few years, to create new and fertile planting areas.  If not, then the only way to make the stuff grow was to put a dead fish in every seed mound (as Squanto showed).   So, where are you gonna get these fish?

    Don't hold out the Indian way of life as a model of efficiency and fine living. They were truly stone-age people (until Europeans gave them some metal and glass), and by necessity they lived hard and cruel lives.

Regards,

Mannyrock

This is true, the Indians didn't have it so well, nothing like you are going to want
it. Look at how the settlers of the west did it, they had it lot better than the Indians and with less than any of us. I can remember spreading potatoes out on the concrete floor of a storm cellar, and later in a shead with a DRY floor
and they would last all winter. study what the folks did before electricity.
the American Indian lived well if every thing was good, other wise THE STRONG
SURVIVED.

[blind ear]

Indians of the Eastern US farmed extensively and had large settlements. The eastern tribes were the most warlike and held the best land. the Cherokee were supposedly the fiercest and also held the prime area of the continent, the divide between the snows of Canada and the heat of the south. The high mountains kept them cool in summer. Things got rough when the white man drove them west or killed them out. The plains and the desert weren't always under long term settlement but were nomadic or seasonal. The clif dwellings were a short term deal.

[mannyrock]

  Yes, the northeastern tribes and the Cherokee were the most advanced, with extensive villages and farming.  Yet, they went through periodic mass starvation during years when there were droughts.  And, most folks don't realize that they were so stone-age, that they never even invented the wheel or the button.  :-)

Regards,

Mannyrock

[rex6666]

Yea those cliff dwelings were short time deals, found "DRIED " anasauz beans in
pots over 400yrs old and still good. short timers

[mannyrock]

 Yea, the Cliff Dwellers are a good example.

  They had an extensive society, and then seemed to disappear all at once.  Two big theories.  A five year drought killed all corn.  Or, they just plain ran out of fertile soil to grow any more corn.  (Corn really sucks the nutrients out of the ground, and in the desert, there ain't alot of fertile ground to begin with.)

   But when they left, somebody forgot to bring those pots of beans. :-)

[rex6666]

 Yea, the Cliff Dwellers are a good example.

  They had an extensive society, and then seemed to disappear all at once.  Two big theories.  A five year drought killed all corn.  Or, they just plain ran out of fertile soil to grow any more corn.  (Corn really sucks the nutrients out of the ground, and in the desert, there ain't alot of fertile ground to begin with.)

   But when they left, somebody forgot to bring those pots of beans. :-)

No one has been able to explain where they went, died of, our kidnaped by aliens. I love those beans that is the only place they are grown i guess.
The only place you can buy them in the Ft. Worth area is the whole food stores
and the are EXPENSIVE. I will be in the northern N.M. area in sept. will bring back some.

[Cornbelt]

Had an aunt who used to smoke apples with sulfur to get them to dry. Don't know if it would work on potatoes or whatever else, but sulfur is cheap. Now that I'm ready to dig potatoes, I might try it. Can't help but think that the two pilot lights on the kitchen stove could be put to better use than just burning. Maybe a rack of screens over it would dry stuff. Sure would be nice to have a little more room in the freezer just in case I get a road kill.

[The Hermit]

In an area north west of the Black River in upstate new york by the Canadian border, was found stone fortifications in a horse shoe shape. In several of them was found stone lined holes containing "parched corn". It is assumed that the indians parched this corn over a fire after they had removed the dry kernals from the cob. You can dry non hybrid corn like Golden Bantum on the cob by string it up and shelling the kernals off when dry. The old timers use a corn sheller cranked by hand. Mine is cast iron. There are several ways to use the corn. Some of mine I grind with a hand burr grinder to use in corn bread.
For potatoes, I wipe off the dried dirt, wrap them in news paper, and store them in my root cellar. As with all things stored, dried, canned etc, use only the best to preserve and eat up the rest.

  The Hermit

[Spector]

I have about 6 liters of dried tomatoes left and some dried apples I put up.  I salt and pepper some of my tomatoes.  Others have salt and hot sauce on them before I dry them.  Someone gave me a mystery tomato plant to grow about 5 years ago and I use seed from those to replant.  It is a very small tomato and I try to pick them when they are rust colored.  When they get dead red ripe I don't like them as much.  I wash them, and cut them in half and cut an ''X'' into the skin of each half.  I save plastic food/drink containers to store them in and some glass jars.

I like sliced and cored Gala apples dried.  Granny Smith apples didn't taste as well as I thought they would when dried.

I have dried Yellow and Zuccini squash, pumpkin cubes and bananas.  The bananas are ok, but I wasn't wild about the other stuff even though I still ate it 4 years later.  I've eaten 5 year old tomatoes. The screw top plastic containers seem to work great for keeping mosture out..........Mike