Author Topic: On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15%  (Read 691 times)

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Offline Redhawk1

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On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15%
« on: August 23, 2007, 03:58:17 AM »
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Al's Morning Meeting Thursday Edition: The Underlying Cause of Ammunition Shortages
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By Al Tompkins (more by author)

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Within a couple of weeks, gun enthusiasts anticipate ammunition prices will rise 10 to 15 percent with the start of hunting season. But there is an underlying cause for the rise: There is a shortage of ammunition, with links to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.


The Associated Press says soldiers fire about a billion bullets a year, creating a shortage that even has police departments nationwide cutting back on their training. The Avalanche-Journal in Lubbock, Texas, says local gun ranges are quiet these days.


The AP reports a story that would be easy to localize:

Troops training for and fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are firing more than 1 billion bullets a year, contributing to ammunition shortages hitting police departments nationwide and preventing some officers from training with the weapons they carry on patrol.

An Associated Press review of dozens of police and sheriff's departments found that many are struggling with delays of as long as a year for both handgun and rifle ammunition. And the shortages are resulting in prices as much as double what departments were paying just a year ago.

"There were warehouses full of it. Now, that isn't the case," said Al Aden, police chief in Pierre, S.D.


Departments in all parts of the country reported delays or reductions in training and, in at least one case, a proposal to use paint-ball guns in firing drills as a way to conserve real ammo.


Forgoing proper, repetitive weapons training comes with a price on the streets, police say, in diminished accuracy, quickness on the draw and basic decision-making skills.

The story provides these examples of problems:
In Oklahoma City, for example, officers cannot qualify with AR-15 rifles because the department does not have enough .223-caliber ammunition -- a round similar to that fired by the military's M-16 and M4 rifles. Last fall, an ammunition shortage forced the department to cancel qualification courses for several different guns.
In Milwaukee, supplies of .40-caliber handgun bullets and .223-caliber rifle rounds have gotten so low that the department has repeatedly dipped into its ammunition reserves. Some weapons training has already been cut by 30 percent, and lessons on rifles have been altered to conserve bullets.
Unlike troops in an active war zone, patrol officers rarely fire their weapons in the line of duty. Even then, an officer in a firefight isn't likely to shoot more than a dozen rounds, said Asheville, N.C., police training officer Lt. Gary Gudac. That, he said, makes training with live ammunition for real-life situations -- such as a vehicle stop -- so essential.
In Trenton, N.J., a lack of available ammunition led the city to give up plans to convert its force to .45-caliber handguns. Last year, the sheriff's department in Bergen County, N.J., had to borrow 26,000 rounds of .40-caliber ammunition to complete twice-a-year training for officers.
"Now we're planning at least a year and a half, even two years in advance," said Bergen County Detective David Macey, a firearms examiner.

In Phoenix, an order for .38-caliber rounds placed a year ago has yet to arrive, meaning no officer can currently qualify with a .38 Special revolver. "We got creative in how we do in training," said Sgt. Bret Draughn, who supervises the department's ammunition purchases. "We had to cut out extra practice sessions. We cut back in certain areas so we don't have to cut out mandatory training."
In Wyoming, the state leaned on its ammunition suppler earlier this year so every state trooper could qualify on the standard-issue AR-15 rifle, said Capt. Bill Morse. Rifle rounds scheduled to arrive in January did not show up until May, leading to a rush of troopers trying to qualify by the deadline.
The Avalanche-Journal says:


Local gun shop employees say stores are not in danger of running out of bullets -- there will be enough ammo for hunters this season -- but it will cost more.



"It's getting more expensive for everybody," said Peter Piepkorn, salesman at Sharp Shooters Knife & Gun, citing higher-priced raw materials as well as military demand.
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This is my Take on the subject.

Prices have gone up exponentially and I'm not sure I buy into the "war" being the issue any more than I am the hand wringing of the big oil companies lamenting that the price at the pump has to go up because some camel farted on an oil well.
    I was told, just yesterday by my gunsmith that I needed to buy any ammo  I might need before September 1.  On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15% across the board and he was warned to expect an additional 5-10% increases each month for the next 3 months afterwards.  The price of shot for shotgun shells has gone up $5 in the last month alone and the price of shotgun powder has gone up 10%.  Now anyone who knows guns and ammo knows that the "war" manufacture of bullets does NOT include lead as the NATO round must be a solid, non-expanding round.  The gun powder used in shotgun shells is nowhere close to the powder required for rifles.  It's like comparing  axel grease with machine oil.  The cost of brass has always been high and it has inched up, but no faster than the costs of other raw materials.
    I'm not suggesting some "left wing conspiracy", but I do see them using the recent OSHA threat as ominous and they're just building their coffers off that paranoia.  Also, the silly California expedition into serial numbering bullets has also bred a "Chicken Little" attitude in the industry.  Even though none of these ideas made any sense at all, when you factor in that 80% of Americans don't hunt and that politicians are more apt to take money from anti-gun, anti-hunting sources today, I'm sure there is some reasonable and real concerns on the ammo makers.  A couple more Barbara Boxer/Charles Schumer/Carolyn McCarthy's in Congress along with the distinct possiblity of a Democrat going into the White House has put these corporations into a frenzy where they're concerned  with making as much as they can while they can.
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15%
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2007, 05:26:23 AM »
Now anyone who knows guns and ammo knows that the "war" manufacture of bullets does NOT include lead as the NATO round must be a solid, non-expanding round.

The cores of all standard military bullets that I'm familiar with (barring armor piercing and such) is still lead.  The jacket is solid copper and non-expanding but the core is still lead (solid copper bullets are out there but most that I'm familiar with are for hunting - hollow points that do expand). 

The gun powder used in shotgun shells is nowhere close to the powder required for rifles.  It's like comparing  axel grease with machine oil.

Not the same, but I'd be willing to bet that they share a lot of the same raw materials used to create them.  A better analogy might be comparing gasoline to diesel.  If a diesel demand shoots up then it's gonna raise the price of petroleum in general, and gasoline, being made also from petroleum, would also rise in price, despite being a different product.

I don't doubt that ammo is going up in price and will continue to, but I'm always leary of blanket statements like "all ammo will go up 15% on this date".  Given the various different manufacturers, materials, old stock, and distributors involved, it's borderline impossible for such a specific increase to occur across the board on such a specific date.  I've heard the same rumors before regarding gas shortages here during the Katrina aftermath.  People were running around saying "fill you your tanks man because at 12:00 the governor is stopping all shipment of gas into the state and the price is gonna skyrocket!".  Didn't happen then and I don't think it'll happen with ammo now.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15%
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 07:31:26 AM »
OK we will see September 1.  Take it for what it is worth, but ammo prices are going up, they have for the past umpteen years already.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15%
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2007, 10:21:12 AM »
Now anyone who knows guns and ammo knows that the "war" manufacture of bullets does NOT include lead as the NATO round must be a solid, non-expanding round.

The cores of all standard military bullets that I'm familiar with (barring armor piercing and such) is still lead.  The jacket is solid copper and non-expanding but the core is still lead (solid copper bullets are out there but most that I'm familiar with are for hunting - hollow points that do expand). 

The gun powder used in shotgun shells is nowhere close to the powder required for rifles.  It's like comparing  axel grease with machine oil.

Not the same, but I'd be willing to bet that they share a lot of the same raw materials used to create them.  A better analogy might be comparing gasoline to diesel.  If a diesel demand shoots up then it's gonna raise the price of petroleum in general, and gasoline, being made also from petroleum, would also rise in price, despite being a different product.

I don't doubt that ammo is going up in price and will continue to, but I'm always leary of blanket statements like "all ammo will go up 15% on this date".  Given the various different manufacturers, materials, old stock, and distributors involved, it's borderline impossible for such a specific increase to occur across the board on such a specific date.  I've heard the same rumors before regarding gas shortages here during the Katrina aftermath.  People were running around saying "fill you your tanks man because at 12:00 the governor is stopping all shipment of gas into the state and the price is gonna skyrocket!".  Didn't happen then and I don't think it'll happen with ammo now.

Check it out for yourself. It is true.
http://www.natchezss.com/customerService.cfm?contentID=manuIncrease&src=BA481
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline jh45gun

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Re: On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15%
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2007, 01:17:28 PM »
Not much ya can do about it expecially when they all banned together like that. Only hope is to try to find stuff on sale. Reloading supplies have gone through the roof so it is no suprise that the ammo  folks are going to raise prices accross the board.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: On September 1, the price of ammo is slated to go up 15%
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2007, 01:27:56 PM »
Some of you know I work part time as a "gun pro" at a large retail sporting goods store which will remain unnamed.

I've seen letters from Remington, Winchester, and CCI which state there will be a 12% price increase to the retailers on anything shipped after October 7th.

Expect another price increase of around 15% in January 2008.

The price increase was justified by a rise in the price of lead.
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