Author Topic: What are some thoughts on doing this for an 8 yr. old youth? (Read 1418 times)

goodwrench6710 · « **on:** August 24, 2007, 04:33:32 PM »

My oldest son will be 8 yrs. old on the 30th of this month. PA. has introduced deer hunting in the mentored youth hunting program. He has a Remington 710, but it is a 270 Win. & is way to much gun for him to shoot right now. I have a 22-250 Handi with a 22" bull barrel. I thought about purchasing a stock to cut down (couldn't find a youth stock on the H&R site) & letting him shoot this alittle & see what he can do. I do know he can really clean up some rodents with the daisy red rider! The only problem I could see is I know it would take a good placed shot with the 22-250 to drop a deer. If this caliper was used for deer, what bullets should I load? Or do you think this would be a bad idea?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2007, 04:54:32 PM »

Personally, I have never been a fan of 22CF's for use on deer. i realize amnymany people do it every year with excellent results.

What about the redused recoil loads from remington??

OR what better excuse could you get for ANOTHER HANDI!!!!

CW

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:05:57 PM »

I think Speer or someone makes a round nosed 65 or 70 gr bullet that will be stable in a 22-250 with a 1 in 12 twist barrel. I did a lot of expermenting with heavy bullets in one once upon a time, don't believe everything people tell you about heavy bullets not working. The long pointy 75gr bullets will not work, but short round nosed ones will. A 22-250 has the zip to get them moving fast enough to stay stable to at least 100 yards. I would load some up and have a go at it. Larry

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:11:41 PM »

The Remington is just too big for him right now. That's why I thought about getting a youth stock for the Handi.

I just looked at the youth models & I'm really not pleased with the caliper choices. 243, 223 or 7mm-08.
The 7mm-08 isn't a bad round, but why wouldn't they offer a 30-30 in a youth gun?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:16:16 PM »

Youth stocks are listed in the Retail Price list in the FAQs.

Tim

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:20:41 PM »

Larry just remember the conversations we have had about the 243. You answered your own question. I would put an ad in the classifieds for a 30-30 barrel or the 243 would be a good choice. Or some other light recoiling rifle. Dale

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:44:32 PM »

I vote for the 30-30 and get a youth stock for it. If you reload you can load up some 125 or 130 grain bullets at slightly reduced velocities if a 30-30 is still too much for him. Remington has managed recoil 125 grain loads if you do not reload.

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:53:25 PM »

Was also looking at the Handis on the H&R sight & was wondering how much recoil does the 44 mag. have in a rifle? I have dies to load 44 mag. 30-30 win. 22-250, 270 win. Maybe I should see if he fits up t my daughter's Savage 340 bolt, it's a 30-30 win. The only problem is she's gonna hunt this year with her grandfather.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2007, 06:09:59 PM »

44mag has about the same recoil as the 30-30, depending on the load of course. If the 22-250 is legal and you supervise the hunt, I'd say use it with a good bullet, you'll probably need to be mindful of bullet weight/velocity since the 22-250 has a 1-14" twist.(That's confirmed too, Larry!!

)

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

trotterlg · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2007, 06:15:30 PM »

The 44 Mag should be nice, the 30-30 is a classic, you have a 22-250 and if it is legal in your state it is plenty enough with heavy bullets. My bet is the recoil will be the same as a 30-30 however. If you have a wood stock just cut an inch off of it and you will be good to go. Larry

tallyho · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2007, 06:20:14 PM »

My son, a skinny 12 yr old uses a 357 Max (with 357 Mag or Max loads) and shoots it well. I tried him on a 30/30 a couple of years ago with factory loads, but he wasn't happy with the recoil. I was going to build some lighter recoiling loads, but ended up with a 357 Mag Handi for him, and now he's got the 357 Maximum. He used the Youth stock on the Mag for awhile, but now is grown enough that he's got a Survivor stock on the Max (its longer than the Youth, but not as long as the Adult).

Everyone is different, but I developed a flinch at 9 yrs old after shooting my dad's Model 94 30/30 and it took me years to get over it. I wanted to be very careful not to induce the same flinching in my kids, so as soon as they decided the 30/30 was too much for them, I went to the 357.

Not to say we won't go up a notch (to the 30/30) when it is appropriate - just that he's now shooting actual 357 Maximum hunting power loads, when last year he was shooting 38 spls, and moderate 357 Magnum loads.

Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2007, 06:47:54 PM »

Get the youth stock and use the 22-250. A few years ago I took a friends daughter out and she used a 22-250 to shoot a Caribou. One shot in the neck at 100 yards and it was down. Good supervision with the shot and it can be done quite well. She was shooting a 70gr Speer bullet. Just call H&R Customer Service and tell them what you want and give the a credit card number and you will have it in a few days.

Couger · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2007, 09:29:17 PM »

Trotter is onto something with his heavy-bullet theory -- which is more than just theory!

The 70-grain Speer .224 Semi-Spitzer was designed SPECIFICALLY for the .22-250 and .220 Swift to be used on deer-like critters.

READ WHAT SPEER SAYS ABOUT THAT BULLET!

Its a great bullet. I used it several years ago in the .223 Remy to kill deer, and it works VERY NICELY for that purpose.

I would also consider the 60-grain Nosler .224 Partion bullet, altho the Speer is a cheaper alternative.

Georgen71 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2007, 09:42:53 PM »

I am a 22-250 fan and have been using one since about the 5th grade. Your son must be in about 3rd or 4th grade? I have always used 70 grain speer bullets and use IMR 4350. It is a very versatile powder and use it in all of my rifles. My load is not a hot fast load, it has a comfortable kick and at 100 yard still has about 1100 ft lbs of energy. I shot 2 deer last year at 125 yards and they dropped dead and did not run like they do on the hunting shows. On the hunting shows they always yell out "great shot!" as the deer runs away and then they track it down later that night or the next day. Anyway getting off subject. When my wife hunts with me it is the gun she prefers. I have a 280, 243 and a few 357s but still prefer my 22-250. I think it's comfort inspires confidence because it is not painful to shoot, especially with your heavy barrell. Mine was a standard barrel but still was a joy to shoot. Hope this helps, George Nickerson, Klawock Alaska.

greg916 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2007, 02:49:13 AM »

goodwrench6710, I have a synthetic youth buttstock I am not using. PM you address and I will send it to you.

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2007, 03:03:24 AM »

14" twist sounds awfully slow for the heavier bullets (especially that 70 grainer!). What's the experience of those who load heavier (i.e. game bullets) in this chambering?

trotterlg · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2007, 03:16:50 AM »

I had a 17 twist 22-250 and it would stabalize 55gr bullets to at least 100 yards. We did a test once on the Savage shooters site and the round nosed 70gr bullets worked good in the 14 twist, the pointy ones would not. You do need to load them near the top of the range as it is the RPM that makes them stable. Larry

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2007, 04:00:40 AM »

You might try the Barnes TSX. It should do the job just fine.

MS10point · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2007, 08:49:56 AM »

My son started with a .243 handi at age 6. He moved to a model 7, 7-08 @ 9. I would think that the 22-250 with 70 grainers would be fine. Just make a good boiler room shot and it should be fine. If he does much hunting he will want a different rifle in a few years and the 22-250 should do him until then. I'm waiting for the day that I can get my model 7 back!
I know that the size of the .270 is a little big but if he hits a growth spurt in a year or two you might try the remington reduced recoil loads for it.

TP

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2007, 09:02:01 AM »

He's too small for the 710, he's also too small for the 340 Savage too. The shortest on I have is the 22-250 & is still too long. Will definitely need a youth stock.

dw06 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2007, 10:31:27 AM »

I'd take greg916 up on the offer for the synthetic youth buttstock and see how well he does shooting the 22-250.When I used to work in PA,a copule of the guys wifes used nothing but the 22-250 on deer with great results.One of them would sit in a little pole building built just for her to watch a nice size field that happened to be an escape route,she would only take broadside shots while using a rest.Oh she is a very good shot,I know firsthand!!

cpj · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2007, 10:45:31 AM »

My daughter will be using a .223 for her first deer hunt this year. 64 Grain Winchester soft points over a yet to be determined amount of Varget.

McLernon · « **Reply #22 on:** August 25, 2007, 03:10:41 PM »

Just remember what's stable at 70 deg can be unstable at 50 deg. My 22-250 will not shoot 55 gr Nosler BT's below 10 deg C but is fine above that temperature. It does have a 1:14.5 inch twist though so it's not too surprising. Hornady makes a nice 55 gr(I think)soft point that should be stable at all temperatures. Just need to poke two holes in the lungs and it's all over!

Good hunting!

Mc

statelinerut · « **Reply #23 on:** August 25, 2007, 03:29:21 PM »

Fusion now makes a Lite Recoil for the 270. Recoil is exactly the same as a 100 grain 243 round. Might want to give it a look.

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 25, 2007, 04:26:27 PM »

I would consider a 270 if I had one in a Handi, but I don't. His 270 is a Remington 710 & is too big. Mine is a Remington 7600 270& is definitely too big & a pump gun is not for a child to shoot in my eyes. You can pick up some bad habits with a pump & I want him to learn to be a safe hunter & a good shot, not an ammo waster.
I have enough powder that I should be able to come up with a good combination for the 22-250. I have w760, w748, h380, varget, & a few others so I should be ok for powder, will just need to get some other bullets. All I have for the .224 is 50gr. & 55 gr. v-max. I know they wont work.
A s far as being legal, for white tails the law says it must be a center fire cartridge so even a 22 Hornet is legal.

rbergum95 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 25, 2007, 04:37:15 PM »

the PA digest does say any centerfire, but this is the first year i can remember seeing that. in years past it always said any centerfire ABOVE .22 cal. you may want to check on this but if it is legal then i say go for it with the .22-250. as long as he can accurately place his shots there should be no trouble.

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2007, 04:45:48 PM »

I'm pretty sure it's .22 center fire & above. So even a Hornet is legal, though I wouldn't try that. I'm alittle reserved about the 22-250 even though I know it'll drop a deer. But then again I've seen deer run of after a bad shot with a 30-06 or a 300 win. mag. A bad shot is a bad shot. As far as the unrecovered shots, most of them I have seen was from the .243. If they don't drop, seems like they go for miles.

trotterlg · « **Reply #27 on:** August 25, 2007, 05:42:53 PM »

What's legal and what's smart are mostly different things. In Arizona a 17 Remington is legal for Buffalo. A 22-250 is plenty for deer, most of the state game rules are far out dated, in Washington state a 25-20 is legal for Elk but a 22-250 isn't. . Larry

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 25, 2007, 05:49:39 PM »

.270 is the min. in PA for elk. PA elk licenses are very limited & in a very small area.

Couger · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2007, 10:03:15 PM »

Quote from: PeterCartwright on August 25, 2007, 03:03:24 AM

14" twist sounds awfully slow for the heavier bullets (especially that 70 grainer!). What's the experience of those who load heavier (i.e. game bullets) in this chambering?

NO WORRIES!!!

The 1-14 twist is the standard rate for the .22-250 and "Swooft." Plus, where I was getting controlled expansion and complete pass-through with that 70-grain Speer (and only around 2950-3050 fps with my .223 reloads), getting a modest 3100-3200fps out of a .22-250 should be a piece of cake. If it doesn't give you at least minute-of-deer accuracy, then the rifle is peculiarly "bad!"

But instead of taking my word for it, get a box of Speer 70-grainers and try them.