Minimum Deer Caliber

[woodchukhntr]

What is the minimum caliber for deer hunting?  Up here in Central New York, we can use any centerfire rifle, or a handgun .35 caliber or larger.  I have seen a .22 Hornet in use, but have not heard of any results from it.  A friend shot one with a 9 mm that he was carrying along with a .308 Encore.  The deer popped up within 25 yards and with the Encore slung over his shoulder, the 9mm was faster to use.  One shot kill.

I think that it is somewhat dependent on the size of the deer in the area hunted.  I have heard that the southern deer are smaller, so a less-powerful cartridge would be appropriate than in my state.  Of course poachers kill a lot of deer with the .22 rimfire, but that is probably illegal everywhere.  With the heavier .22 bullets now available, is the .223 now acceptable?

Power-wise I would consider the 7.62x39 as the minimum rifle caliber, and the .357 magnum as the minimum pistol caliber.

[dukkillr]

In my area the legal minimum is .243 (that's Kansas and Missouri).  I'm not a fan of the .243 but it seems like as good a minimum as anything else.  I'd personally start with a 25-06, but I have this crazy notion that there's no reason to push the envelope.  With great deer rounds available like the .270, 30-06, and .308, I can't figure out what the advantage to going smaller is.  Everyone can agree that if you "put the bullet in the right spot" you can kill a deer with a .22lr or .17hmr, but that's not the whole story.  If you hunt long enough you won't put the bullet in the right spot, and the more damage you do to the target the better. 

[Don Fischer]

I'm not a big 243 fan either but, I have killed three deer with one and never had a problem. I think the best starting place is the 250-3000 but it's gone now. Next the 257 Roberts, pretty much dead also. So I'd also say the 25-06. Seems to me the 24/25 cal's are a breaking point with both being what is called dual purpose, varmint/deer cartridges. The 24's I'd call a varmint/deer cartridge and the 25's deer/varmint cartridge.

[Will_C]

I also have killed deer with the .243, but I like the idea of a .25 caliber as a minimum. I have only used the .243 lately. I am a much cooler shot that when i was younger. I killed my first few deer with slugs, and I was glad to have that big hole to make up for some poor shooting.
I am going to try to shoot a deer this fall with a .357 revolver. I have shot 3,000 rounds practicing, and will not take a shot over 50 yards.
Will

[rickt300]

When I was younger and the feral hogs were not as common I used the 223 and 22-250 to take several deer. Another thing, for me a minimum cartridge could be a bit different than what is good for someone else. That said the 243 is a good deer cartridge for most of us that can shoot and will take care to use good bullet placement. It is not an all around deer cartridge, Those start with the 6.5x55 and go up from there.

[beemanbeme]

A 30-06 with a 165gr bullet will tump them over pretty good. As will a 7-08 and a 154gr RN bullet or a .260 with a 140.
 Here in Wild and Wonderful West Virginia the minimum calibre is .224.  The state figures they might as well make it legal as the locals are gonna use it anyway.  Actually, some folks are good shots and use the .223 and .243 to good effect.  I don't hold with it but they don't pay any attention to me.   

[~Ace~]

Deer range from 70 lb does to Tuff old 250+ lb Bucks...  And Calibers do also

I would not go out with Less than a .243 to hunt the bottom to mid range, or a .270 for Top to bottom. I like Enough gun for the job. ~Ace~

[buck460XVR]

I gotta agree with this guy.....

[Redhawk1]

A 243 would be my minimum, I have taken many deer with my 243. Just like any round used, shot placement is most important.

[Silvertp]

My son, a friend and I were hunting Sitka Blacktails in Alaska.  No doubt these deer trend on the small side for the various deer species, although Ive seen some of the big bucks dress out at weights of mature whitetail.

We were hunting above timberline in the Alpine zone and just crept up over a rise.  There were two bucks bedded in the open about 150 yds away.  My son, who was shooting a .223 w/55 gr Speer bullets.  My friend was hunting with a .338 Win Mag w/225 grain factory ammo.  They agreed on who would shoot each buck so I did the "count of 3 routine".  As the rifles cracked...you guessed it...the deer hit with the .223 slumped in its bed.  The buck hit with the .338 jumped up and began trotting off, only to take another round, which humped him up, but he kept moving.  The third hit with the .338 put the buck down and out.

Go figure...its where you hit'em.  That said, I wouldn't recommend a .243 class rifle unless you are a good shot, are hunting the smaller bodied deer and keep your shots to no more than 300 yards.  If you are hunting the big bruiser northern whitetails or big Mule deer bucks a .270 or ballistic equivelent would be the best place to start. 

Silvertp

[NYHunter]

For woods hunting I'd say 30-30, but for me personally it would be the .300 Sav. shooting a 150 grn. Core-Lokt.
Distance & open country I'd vote for the 7mm-08, but for me personally it would the .308 shooting 150 - 165 Core-Lokt.

[Gregory]

What is the minimum caliber for deer hunting?  Up here in Central New York, we can use a handgun .35 caliber or larger. 

I don't see the caliber restriction in the current regs for a handgun.

Handgun- Any centerfire pistol or revolver.  Barrel length maximum is 16 inches.

[Don Fischer]

What is the minimum caliber for deer hunting?  Up here in Central New York, we can use a handgun .35 caliber or larger. 

I don't see the caliber restriction in the current regs for a handgun.

Handgun- Any centerfire pistol or revolver.  Barrel length maximum is 16 inches.

I've got a 1917 Savage auto loader in 32 auto. Ought to make a dandy hand gun for deer!

[flintlock]

NC doesn't mention any minimum caliber in our regs for deer...

As far as the .243, I've killed about 150 with it through the years, course I used "Premium" bullets for abut 80 of them...
As long as you consider CoreLokts 'Premium"....

Never thought of the .243 as too small, until I got "educated" in the internet...As to the advantages to shooting a mild kicker....
I shoot year round, not just targets, but also crows, groundhogs, coyotes etc....If I can hit a crow at 300 yards in August, I know
I can hit a deer in the lungs at 300 in October....I never lose sight of the deer after the shot...I can switch shoulders and shoot off my left
shoulder and don't have to worry about the scope "biting" me....I don't flinch, guys shooting larger calibers actually bring them to me
to sight in....I can drop a deer on the spot by putting a bullet through the shoulder blades, by shooting them through the lungs they drop within 40-70 yards, about the same as my brother's .270..

It's amazing that the 250 Savage and 257 Roberts were considered fine deer cartridges in the 50's when the .243 was introduced,
but the .243 is considered "too small"....And the .243 out sells both of those fine older cartridges by a wide margin....

[NONYA]

Why not,its all about shot placement....I have killed deer with a .243 but that was long before I started hunting for big bucks in open country where a long shot is common.I would consider the 270 my personal min. Must be some mighty small deer if you are breaking both front shoulders at 300 yards with a 243.

[Swampman]

I prefer at least a .30-30, the .308 rr .30-06 are much better.  I would only use lesser calibers in an emergency.

[Davemuzz]

Ace has an excellent point. If it's a small deer your talking about, the smaller calibers will do just fine.

Redhawk hit the nail on the head. I don't care what caliber gun your using, short of a bazooka, shot placement is key. Magnum gut shots are just more gooey than .243 gut shots. But both can be very long days.

My uncle (actually my wife's uncle...but he and I have hunted for so many years, we have "adopted" each other) turned 80 this year, and because of various health issues has not bot his license. He was one heck of a marksman with a rifle. In rifle season he would take his .222 out and if there was a buck that came within his scope distance, it was dead. He would head shoot every one. From 50 yards to 150 yards he hit them all.

Now, I would never attempt to take a head shot. One little flintch and I could be taking the lower jaw off and never recover the deer, but it would die a slow one. But Uncle G. could do it, and he did time after time with his .222.

Shot placement was key.

Dave

[woodchukhntr]

 

I don't see the caliber restriction in the current regs for a handgun.

Handgun- Any centerfire pistol or revolver.  Barrel length maximum is 16 inches.

Gregory,

I just looked up the regulations and you are right.  I swear I saw it just yesterday.  I must have had a senior moment.  This makes the use of under .35 caliber rifle cartridges in Contenders, etc. legal.  But Don Fischer has a good point.  A .32 auto or a .22 Hornet might be legal, but just won't do it reliabily.  That is the problem with regulations, they cannot cover all circumstances.  It has to be up to the sportsman.

Some of the southern zone counties now allow rifles, but some rural counties still don't.  So we have a condition where you can legally hunt with a .30.30 in a Contender but not in a rifle.

[30-30man]

No regs here except against rimfire .22,.17hmr, .22 mag here.  I would use a .223 if that is what I had. It is very unusual for any deer in my area to be 200lbs.  My personal limit is the 7.62x39/30-30, they kill em just fine and no other needed.

[K.K]

For me, .243 minimum, though I seldom use it. I like at least a .270, and often hunt with the .300 WSM or .450 Marlin, like Mr. Ruark or Elmer Keith would have liked.

[poncaguy]

Here in Oklahoma, 223 is the minimum. Mine would be the 243. I just picked up an old Remington 788  in 6mm Rem, a real tack driver, will use it mostly on deer this year.
  I have 260's, 7-08's, 243's, 308's,270 and 270 WSM, 300WSM. 35 Whelen, 45-70 , 280 and 45-70 in rifles. Will use my Encore 15" 6.8 Rem some too...........really fun trying to decide..........

[statelinerut]

I have used 30-30, 7mm, and now the 243. Out of all the calibers I have had better luck with the 243. I also use a NEF single shot as well. I only get one shot and I make it count. I firmly believe this makes me take the highest percentage I am presented with. I have not lost a deer yet nor had one go more than 20 feet with this rifle. I use the 95gr Fusion and believe it is one of the best over the counter rounds on the market today for whitetail.

My buddies on the lease I hunt are a different story. The smallest caliber out of the other 7 guys on our lease is a .280. Three of the guys shoot 300RUM's. One reason I believe they shoot them is ego. I have witnessed two of them at the bench sighting in and they take forever because of the recoil. Give me a break. If you are scared of the caliber you are shooting you need to be shooting another caliber. But they would never do this because of what the others might say. Ridiculous to say the least. I just keep my mouth shut and fill the freezer. Don't get me wrong, I believe a hunter should shoot whatever caliber he feels comfortable with. But that hunter I believe should be able to set at a bench and shoot that caliber without be afraid of it. Just my opinion. This theory of "you wont feel it when you shoot a deer so don't worry about it" it complete and utterly hogwash.

So to get back on the subject, I believe the 243 is very adequate for whitetail. If you place the the bullet behind the shoulder and thru the lungs you will be fine. All this shoulder breaking talk is a lot of waisted meet and not wanting to track the animal. A big part of hunting to me actually tracking the animal. If I should have one fall by shooting it behind the shoulder so be it, but if not, lets get on the blood trail.

[Davemuzz]

Statelinerut,

300rum ought to be enough gun....for Moose! .

Actually, I spend as much time as I can in bow season trying my best to fill my buck tag. I get out early in the AM the month an a half before the season and look for the well traveled trails, set up the deer cam to see if there are shooters traveling there, and try to determine where is\are the spots to direct my son to "donkey" my tree stands out and lean 'em up against a solid tree. With any luck, bagging a buck in the bow season lets me use the rifle season to pick a handgun and caliber, or rifle and caliber and go see if I can bag a doe for the freezer.

That's a good time of the year.

Dave

[single action]

Minimum caliber for deer? whatever you have that is legal in your state. That being said, take into condsideration likely ranges you will be shooting at, the size and recoil sensitivity of the shooter, and the shooters accuracy with the firearm. Both my wife and my youngest son have shot their first 2 deer with a .223 handi rifle and 55grain soft points. ALL shots were one shot kills, all were under 100 yards and all were chest/lung shots. My wife shot a 75 lb doe her first year, and a 160lb (field dressed 8 point the second year. Neither ran more than 40 yards after the shot. By the way, her 8 point is bigger than anything I have ever even seen in the woods, a fact she will never let me forget! I guess im going to have to quit killing does and get a decent buck this year so she will shut up about it.LOL My youngest boy has shot 2 does in the 65-80 lb range. Afriend borrowed this rifle for his daughter to use 2 years ago and she killed a nice 8 point with it, also a 1 shot kill. My friend liked it so much he bought one for himself and has killed several deer with it. I personally hunted with a winchester .357 carbine for several years and killed several deer with it ( All Of these deer were within 125yards and I did have to shoot 1 twice because of MY poor shot placement. Not the gun or ammunitions fault. My son also killed a doe with this gun but decided he wanted something larger. Do I reccomend these guns as ideal? NO! I used these because they were what we had, they have minimal recoil, and I reload both calibers so ammo was cheap and we practice ALOT. Bullet placement is key no matter what caliber you use. a hit in the lungs with a .223 will kill a deer much quicker than a miss with a 45/70. Just use a gun you can afford to practice with and learn to shoot accurately. I know a guy who saved up for a .300 win mag (his dream gun) and after he got it he found out 2 disturbing facts about it: 1- ammo for it in our area is about 25-30 bucks a box, and 2- he has developed a heck of a flinch since he started shooting it. He has yet to kill anything with it and has gone back to using his old 30-30.  Some one asked about using a .22 hornet, I have never shot one myself, but in my area it is considered the "ultimate" poaching gun. How true this is< I dont know.

[ironglow]

   Woodchukhntr;
    If I read you correctly, you are contemplating getting a new rifle for deer, since some counties in NY have recently opened to rifle.

  Yes, the deer here in the north are perhaps generally larger than in the south..still, I would consider using my Savage 11G in .223 for deer
 or even possibly my NEF bull barrel .223, but I would want a stable platform (or rest) to shoot from in order to assure a neck shot.

   Better still, for eastern woodlands I like my 336C Marlin in 30/30..it has a well proven action, well proven Marlin accuracy...and perhaps most important...
   In the Marlin 336C one gets a well made, machined steel receiver and a great piece of American workmanship for right around $300 at Walmart.

    Try to get that kind of workmanship in any other centerfire rifle for near that price...decent .22s often cost that much !

          THe 30/30 round doesn't paralyze my shoulder, and 30/30s more likely can be found in "East Podunk"... than many other rounds !

  i am a firm believer in the "one accurate shot" concept, so any deer I have taken with the 30/30, died just as quickly as were it a 375 H&H....LOL

   For most conditions in NY State, optics should be 2.5X to 4X , allows a large field of view...and in my mountainous area (Catt. Co) is entirely adequate.

   If I were hunting longer ranges of the western states, my choice may well be very different..

[woodchukhntr]

Ironglow,

Actually, I just picked up a Remington Special Purpose 870 20 ga. rifled slug gun.  Rifle wise I have more than I need:  Savage 340 in .30-30, Savage 24 .30-30/12 ga., Lee-Enfield .303 British, CZ 527 carbine in 7.62x39, Remington 12 ga. 870 and several handguns.  All I need now is a cooperative deer!  I particularly like the CZ since it is very light and accurate.  I have it equipped with a 1.5 - 4.5 scope. I intend to use it and/or the 340 (peep sight) this year, where permissable.  There are 2 adjacent farms where I occasionally hunt, one will allow rifle, the other won't.  That is where the Savage 24 comes in!

Your observations on the .223 have me thinking.  I have a Savage model 11.  With 75 gr. bullets it might work well.  I don't spray and pray, preferring a deliberate aimed shot at a stationary deer, or one moving slowly.  The light caliber won't make much noise so it won't upset the natives like a "boomer" would.  Thanks for the idea.

[ironglow]

  woodchukhntr;

          Yup ! sounds like you're well set up in the rifle dept., with some very desireable ones on your list !

   I too, am a pick my shot type..don't shoot at a running deer, with the possible exception of one heading directly for me or directly away. . I figure I would rather miss a chance at a buck than to miss a buck, go on past and get a hunter that was unnoticed in the blurred background...

          I don't need venison that much !

    BTW..that's a good question, guess I'll post it !

[woodchukhntr]

Ironglow,

Your comment about the unnoticed hunter in the background brings up a good point, the use of blaze orange when hunting.  For many years I have been a proponent of orange for the reason that you stated.  If I cannot see a hunter in the background, I may take a shot at a deer directly between us.  Should I miss, or have the shot pass through, the other hunter may be shot.  Too many hunters in our area (central NY) wear full camo or the red/black plaid wool.  Even the wool blends in when the hunter is in shade.  Teh going excuse is "if you can't see me, you won't shoot me by accident".  Then there is the problem with those few who shoot at movement!  If they can't see that you are human, they assume you are a deer!  You might as well go around wearing a Carhart coat, and I have seen that too!

Wear camo if you want, but wear an orange vest over it.  There are too many morons in the woods!

I have been in plain view of both bucks and does while wearing orange, and they didn't know I was there, or didn't care.

[SHOOTALL]

it would depend on where i was hunting , around here ( VA. ) the deer are small near the coast and med. in the mountain's . what does small mean - full grown doe 90-100 lbs

[woodchukhntr]

Another factor would be the type of terrain.  Open terrain has less chance of brush deflecting your bullet, so a smaller caliber has a better chance of making it to the target.  In brush, I would go with larger calibers, .30 minimum, no maximum.  I have shot at a deer in brush with a .50 muzzle loader at less than 50 yd. and had the deer just stand there and watch me.